Nursing home for undocumented friend

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, if you desperately want to help her then take her in and take care of her yourself.

I don’t have the space or resources to provide 24/7 care

OP, and I say this gently -- neither does America.

That's bull and we all know it. And Im not even talking about immigrants.

We do not prioritize elderly care, or childcare, in this country for the neediest among us. Citizens or not. We are the wealthiest and greatest nation in the world and we let the elderly poor starve and freeze to death and molder away in sh°tty nursing homes because we do not care.

We have the space and the money. What we lack is the WILL and EMPATHY.

+1 we have money for Ukraine though

That money is protecting you from Russia. You’re going to love aging in a provincial state of Russia once you finally receive what you voted for.

Yeah I'm the bull poster and agree with the above. Appropriations for foreign affairs are absolutely vital to our safety and security.

We have plenty of money realistically. We just need to have the political will and willingness to funnel it all correctly

Don't you agree that funneling it correctly should mean taking care of our elderly citizens needs' first? Just about every other country does this including wealthy ones like Switzerland and Norway.

The problem I have is when a needy elderly American citizen needs housing or other support it is not available. Many here on the Elderly Forum will attest to that. IN PART it is because resources are going to support needy non-citizens. There are only so many affordable housing options available. And it's getting worse.

Just saw a local news program where HUD (and other public/private funds) went towards a brand new housing complex for immigrants families with children. Yet there are no options for poor elderly housing. When asked about it for a relative, we've been told to take them to a homeless shelter as there are no apartments or vouchers available unless you have small children - citizen or not. This has been going on for years.

The cold, hard truth about countries like Norway, Switzerland et al is that they accept that old people die. They don't authorize absurd medical interventions for 85 year olds or 90 year olds like we do in the US, nor do they prescribe anything remotely similar to the number of drugs we prescribe for older people. Their populations as a whole are much healthier to start (far less obesity, better diets, etc.).

They have a far more casual attitude that while it may be technically possible to provide open-heart surgery for someone that's 90...the quality of life after such surgery will likely be terrible...and they are 90. That's a ripe old age to leave this world. The US system reimburses for all these absurd procedures.

If the US adopted the same medical protocols for our elderly population, it would free up hundreds of billions that Medicare could allocate to supporting healthy elderly people that need housing and other services.

The family or individual push for the medical intervention. You can sign a dnr.

I get that...but in Europe it isn't an option. Also, if the US told the family they would have to pay 100% out-of-pocket for a procedure for a 90-year old that likely only extends life for 3-6 months (and the quality of life during recovery is awful), it would also lead to different decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, if you desperately want to help her then take her in and take care of her yourself.

I don’t have the space or resources to provide 24/7 care

OP, and I say this gently -- neither does America.

That's bull and we all know it. And Im not even talking about immigrants.

We do not prioritize elderly care, or childcare, in this country for the neediest among us. Citizens or not. We are the wealthiest and greatest nation in the world and we let the elderly poor starve and freeze to death and molder away in sh°tty nursing homes because we do not care.

We have the space and the money. What we lack is the WILL and EMPATHY.

+1 we have money for Ukraine though

That money is protecting you from Russia. You’re going to love aging in a provincial state of Russia once you finally receive what you voted for.

Yeah I'm the bull poster and agree with the above. Appropriations for foreign affairs are absolutely vital to our safety and security.

We have plenty of money realistically. We just need to have the political will and willingness to funnel it all correctly

Don't you agree that funneling it correctly should mean taking care of our elderly citizens needs' first? Just about every other country does this including wealthy ones like Switzerland and Norway.

The problem I have is when a needy elderly American citizen needs housing or other support it is not available. Many here on the Elderly Forum will attest to that. IN PART it is because resources are going to support needy non-citizens. There are only so many affordable housing options available. And it's getting worse.

Just saw a local news program where HUD (and other public/private funds) went towards a brand new housing complex for immigrants families with children. Yet there are no options for poor elderly housing. When asked about it for a relative, we've been told to take them to a homeless shelter as there are no apartments or vouchers available unless you have small children - citizen or not. This has been going on for years.

The cold, hard truth about countries like Norway, Switzerland et al is that they accept that old people die. They don't authorize absurd medical interventions for 85 year olds or 90 year olds like we do in the US, nor do they prescribe anything remotely similar to the number of drugs we prescribe for older people. Their populations as a whole are much healthier to start (far less obesity, better diets, etc.).

They have a far more casual attitude that while it may be technically possible to provide open-heart surgery for someone that's 90...the quality of life after such surgery will likely be terrible...and they are 90. That's a ripe old age to leave this world. The US system reimburses for all these absurd procedures.

If the US adopted the same medical protocols for our elderly population, it would free up hundreds of billions that Medicare could allocate to supporting healthy elderly people that need housing and other services.

The family or individual push for the medical intervention. You can sign a dnr.

I get that...but in Europe it isn't an option. Also, if the US told the family they would have to pay 100% out-of-pocket for a procedure for a 90-year old that likely only extends life for 3-6 months (and the quality of life during recovery is awful), it would also lead to different decisions.

This is now shifting over into the huge intertwined problems we have with doctors, pharma/medical device companies, and malpractice lawyers. It's all about the money. That's a whole 'nother thread.

And to PP's point about 90 year olds getting open heart surgery, that certainly doesn't happen with the poor who are on Medicaid. Maybe those who have private insurers might opt for that, but it certainly doesn't add up to "hundreds of billions" coming out of Medicare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, if you desperately want to help her then take her in and take care of her yourself.

I don’t have the space or resources to provide 24/7 care

OP, and I say this gently -- neither does America.

That's bull and we all know it. And Im not even talking about immigrants.

We do not prioritize elderly care, or childcare, in this country for the neediest among us. Citizens or not. We are the wealthiest and greatest nation in the world and we let the elderly poor starve and freeze to death and molder away in sh°tty nursing homes because we do not care.

We have the space and the money. What we lack is the WILL and EMPATHY.

+1 we have money for Ukraine though

That money is protecting you from Russia. You’re going to love aging in a provincial state of Russia once you finally receive what you voted for.

Yeah I'm the bull poster and agree with the above. Appropriations for foreign affairs are absolutely vital to our safety and security.

We have plenty of money realistically. We just need to have the political will and willingness to funnel it all correctly

Don't you agree that funneling it correctly should mean taking care of our elderly citizens needs' first? Just about every other country does this including wealthy ones like Switzerland and Norway.

The problem I have is when a needy elderly American citizen needs housing or other support it is not available. Many here on the Elderly Forum will attest to that. IN PART it is because resources are going to support needy non-citizens. There are only so many affordable housing options available. And it's getting worse.

Just saw a local news program where HUD (and other public/private funds) went towards a brand new housing complex for immigrants families with children. Yet there are no options for poor elderly housing. When asked about it for a relative, we've been told to take them to a homeless shelter as there are no apartments or vouchers available unless you have small children - citizen or not. This has been going on for years.

The cold, hard truth about countries like Norway, Switzerland et al is that they accept that old people die. They don't authorize absurd medical interventions for 85 year olds or 90 year olds like we do in the US, nor do they prescribe anything remotely similar to the number of drugs we prescribe for older people. Their populations as a whole are much healthier to start (far less obesity, better diets, etc.).

They have a far more casual attitude that while it may be technically possible to provide open-heart surgery for someone that's 90...the quality of life after such surgery will likely be terrible...and they are 90. That's a ripe old age to leave this world. The US system reimburses for all these absurd procedures.

If the US adopted the same medical protocols for our elderly population, it would free up hundreds of billions that Medicare could allocate to supporting healthy elderly people that need housing and other services.

The family or individual push for the medical intervention. You can sign a dnr.

I get that...but in Europe it isn't an option. Also, if the US told the family they would have to pay 100% out-of-pocket for a procedure for a 90-year old that likely only extends life for 3-6 months (and the quality of life during recovery is awful), it would also lead to different decisions.

This is now shifting over into the huge intertwined problems we have with doctors, pharma/medical device companies, and malpractice lawyers. It's all about the money. That's a whole 'nother thread.

And to PP's point about 90 year olds getting open heart surgery, that certainly doesn't happen with the poor who are on Medicaid. Maybe those who have private insurers might opt for that, but it certainly doesn't add up to "hundreds of billions" coming out of Medicare.

It happens all the time with Medicare…my SILs 88 year old mother died on the operating table for a surgery that should never have happened (and wouldn’t have happened in any European country).

The family just couldn’t accept that 88 is a great age to make it and at that point it’s not worth the surgery.

[Anonymous]

This is going to be a huge problem in the US in the future. Millions are paying into a system that they will never get to use. They also are the ones who tend to be more paycheck-to-paycheck and less prone to having a savings for the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is going to be a huge problem in the US in the future. Millions are paying into a system that they will never get to use. They also are the ones who tend to be more paycheck-to-paycheck and less prone to having a savings for the future.

Where/how are they going to complain? I’m seriously asking. The way things are going, a lot of people will no longer be “paying into the system.”

[Anonymous]

This is why we need medically assisted suicide. No one should get to this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, if you desperately want to help her then take her in and take care of her yourself.

I don’t have the space or resources to provide 24/7 care

OP, and I say this gently -- neither does America.

That's bull and we all know it. And Im not even talking about immigrants.

We do not prioritize elderly care, or childcare, in this country for the neediest among us. Citizens or not. We are the wealthiest and greatest nation in the world and we let the elderly poor starve and freeze to death and molder away in sh°tty nursing homes because we do not care.

We have the space and the money. What we lack is the WILL and EMPATHY.

+1 we have money for Ukraine though

That money is protecting you from Russia. You’re going to love aging in a provincial state of Russia once you finally receive what you voted for.

Yeah I'm the bull poster and agree with the above. Appropriations for foreign affairs are absolutely vital to our safety and security.

We have plenty of money realistically. We just need to have the political will and willingness to funnel it all correctly

Don't you agree that funneling it correctly should mean taking care of our elderly citizens needs' first? Just about every other country does this including wealthy ones like Switzerland and Norway.

The problem I have is when a needy elderly American citizen needs housing or other support it is not available. Many here on the Elderly Forum will attest to that. IN PART it is because resources are going to support needy non-citizens. There are only so many affordable housing options available. And it's getting worse.

Just saw a local news program where HUD (and other public/private funds) went towards a brand new housing complex for immigrants families with children. Yet there are no options for poor elderly housing. When asked about it for a relative, we've been told to take them to a homeless shelter as there are no apartments or vouchers available unless you have small children - citizen or not. This has been going on for years.

The cold, hard truth about countries like Norway, Switzerland et al is that they accept that old people die. They don't authorize absurd medical interventions for 85 year olds or 90 year olds like we do in the US, nor do they prescribe anything remotely similar to the number of drugs we prescribe for older people. Their populations as a whole are much healthier to start (far less obesity, better diets, etc.).

They have a far more casual attitude that while it may be technically possible to provide open-heart surgery for someone that's 90...the quality of life after such surgery will likely be terrible...and they are 90. That's a ripe old age to leave this world. The US system reimburses for all these absurd procedures.

If the US adopted the same medical protocols for our elderly population, it would free up hundreds of billions that Medicare could allocate to supporting healthy elderly people that need housing and other services.

The family or individual push for the medical intervention. You can sign a dnr.

I get that...but in Europe it isn't an option. Also, if the US told the family they would have to pay 100% out-of-pocket for a procedure for a 90-year old that likely only extends life for 3-6 months (and the quality of life during recovery is awful), it would also lead to different decisions.

This is now shifting over into the huge intertwined problems we have with doctors, pharma/medical device companies, and malpractice lawyers. It's all about the money. That's a whole 'nother thread.

And to PP's point about 90 year olds getting open heart surgery, that certainly doesn't happen with the poor who are on Medicaid. Maybe those who have private insurers might opt for that, but it certainly doesn't add up to "hundreds of billions" coming out of Medicare.

"Hundreds of billions" is probably about right for the amount spent on medically inappropriate procedures for those close to death. About 25% of Medicare spending goes to people in the final year of their lives. Think of what this country could do with $200 billion We could provide universal preK and child care, for example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, if you desperately want to help her then take her in and take care of her yourself.

I don’t have the space or resources to provide 24/7 care

OP, and I say this gently -- neither does America.

That's bull and we all know it. And Im not even talking about immigrants.

We do not prioritize elderly care, or childcare, in this country for the neediest among us. Citizens or not. We are the wealthiest and greatest nation in the world and we let the elderly poor starve and freeze to death and molder away in sh°tty nursing homes because we do not care.

We have the space and the money. What we lack is the WILL and EMPATHY.

+1 we have money for Ukraine though

That money is protecting you from Russia. You’re going to love aging in a provincial state of Russia once you finally receive what you voted for.

Yeah I'm the bull poster and agree with the above. Appropriations for foreign affairs are absolutely vital to our safety and security.

We have plenty of money realistically. We just need to have the political will and willingness to funnel it all correctly

Don't you agree that funneling it correctly should mean taking care of our elderly citizens needs' first? Just about every other country does this including wealthy ones like Switzerland and Norway.

The problem I have is when a needy elderly American citizen needs housing or other support it is not available. Many here on the Elderly Forum will attest to that. IN PART it is because resources are going to support needy non-citizens. There are only so many affordable housing options available. And it's getting worse.

Just saw a local news program where HUD (and other public/private funds) went towards a brand new housing complex for immigrants families with children. Yet there are no options for poor elderly housing. When asked about it for a relative, we've been told to take them to a homeless shelter as there are no apartments or vouchers available unless you have small children - citizen or not. This has been going on for years.

The cold, hard truth about countries like Norway, Switzerland et al is that they accept that old people die. They don't authorize absurd medical interventions for 85 year olds or 90 year olds like we do in the US, nor do they prescribe anything remotely similar to the number of drugs we prescribe for older people. Their populations as a whole are much healthier to start (far less obesity, better diets, etc.).

They have a far more casual attitude that while it may be technically possible to provide open-heart surgery for someone that's 90...the quality of life after such surgery will likely be terrible...and they are 90. That's a ripe old age to leave this world. The US system reimburses for all these absurd procedures.

If the US adopted the same medical protocols for our elderly population, it would free up hundreds of billions that Medicare could allocate to supporting healthy elderly people that need housing and other services.

The family or individual push for the medical intervention. You can sign a dnr.

I get that...but in Europe it isn't an option. Also, if the US told the family they would have to pay 100% out-of-pocket for a procedure for a 90-year old that likely only extends life for 3-6 months (and the quality of life during recovery is awful), it would also lead to different decisions.

This is now shifting over into the huge intertwined problems we have with doctors, pharma/medical device companies, and malpractice lawyers. It's all about the money. That's a whole 'nother thread.

And to PP's point about 90 year olds getting open heart surgery, that certainly doesn't happen with the poor who are on Medicaid. Maybe those who have private insurers might opt for that, but it certainly doesn't add up to "hundreds of billions" coming out of Medicare.

It happens all the time with Medicare…my SILs 88 year old mother died on the operating table for a surgery that should never have happened (and wouldn’t have happened in any European country).

The family just couldn’t accept that 88 is a great age to make it and at that point it’s not worth the surgery.

Very true, my sibling who was a doctor demanded the cardiologist do a surgery for my dad who had a DNR, she didn't follow and he made it through the surgery and a week on life support before she allowed him to pass. He didn't want to be in a nursing home. But, he choose her for POA, so that's on him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, if you desperately want to help her then take her in and take care of her yourself.

I don’t have the space or resources to provide 24/7 care

OP, and I say this gently -- neither does America.

That's bull and we all know it. And Im not even talking about immigrants.

We do not prioritize elderly care, or childcare, in this country for the neediest among us. Citizens or not. We are the wealthiest and greatest nation in the world and we let the elderly poor starve and freeze to death and molder away in sh°tty nursing homes because we do not care.

We have the space and the money. What we lack is the WILL and EMPATHY.

+1 we have money for Ukraine though

That money is protecting you from Russia. You’re going to love aging in a provincial state of Russia once you finally receive what you voted for.

Yeah I'm the bull poster and agree with the above. Appropriations for foreign affairs are absolutely vital to our safety and security.

We have plenty of money realistically. We just need to have the political will and willingness to funnel it all correctly

Don't you agree that funneling it correctly should mean taking care of our elderly citizens needs' first? Just about every other country does this including wealthy ones like Switzerland and Norway.

The problem I have is when a needy elderly American citizen needs housing or other support it is not available. Many here on the Elderly Forum will attest to that. IN PART it is because resources are going to support needy non-citizens. There are only so many affordable housing options available. And it's getting worse.

Just saw a local news program where HUD (and other public/private funds) went towards a brand new housing complex for immigrants families with children. Yet there are no options for poor elderly housing. When asked about it for a relative, we've been told to take them to a homeless shelter as there are no apartments or vouchers available unless you have small children - citizen or not. This has been going on for years.

The cold, hard truth about countries like Norway, Switzerland et al is that they accept that old people die. They don't authorize absurd medical interventions for 85 year olds or 90 year olds like we do in the US, nor do they prescribe anything remotely similar to the number of drugs we prescribe for older people. Their populations as a whole are much healthier to start (far less obesity, better diets, etc.).

They have a far more casual attitude that while it may be technically possible to provide open-heart surgery for someone that's 90...the quality of life after such surgery will likely be terrible...and they are 90. That's a ripe old age to leave this world. The US system reimburses for all these absurd procedures.

If the US adopted the same medical protocols for our elderly population, it would free up hundreds of billions that Medicare could allocate to supporting healthy elderly people that need housing and other services.

The family or individual push for the medical intervention. You can sign a dnr.

I get that...but in Europe it isn't an option. Also, if the US told the family they would have to pay 100% out-of-pocket for a procedure for a 90-year old that likely only extends life for 3-6 months (and the quality of life during recovery is awful), it would also lead to different decisions.

This is now shifting over into the huge intertwined problems we have with doctors, pharma/medical device companies, and malpractice lawyers. It's all about the money. That's a whole 'nother thread.

And to PP's point about 90 year olds getting open heart surgery, that certainly doesn't happen with the poor who are on Medicaid. Maybe those who have private insurers might opt for that, but it certainly doesn't add up to "hundreds of billions" coming out of Medicare.

It happens all the time with Medicare…my SILs 88 year old mother died on the operating table for a surgery that should never have happened (and wouldn’t have happened in any European country).

The family just couldn’t accept that 88 is a great age to make it and at that point it’s not worth the surgery.

Very true, my sibling who was a doctor demanded the cardiologist do a surgery for my dad who had a DNR, she didn't follow and he made it through the surgery and a week on life support before she allowed him to pass. He didn't want to be in a nursing home. But, he choose her for POA, so that's on him.

Crazy. Anecdotally doctors seem to be the least likely to seek inappropriate treatments like that. At least for themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend in a very sad situation. She requires 24hr care facility, but undocumented which means no Medicaid. No income. Early onset dementia. She has lived the US for the last 15 years. Is there any hope in finding her a nursing home facility in the DMV area? Are there any charitable organizations? TIA

Is she still mobile and does she have lucid moments? It's unfortunate that we don't have medical aid in dying in this country, but there are obviously ways she could handle this herself if she's mobile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is going to be a huge problem in the US in the future. Millions are paying into a system that they will never get to use. They also are the ones who tend to be more paycheck-to-paycheck and less prone to having a savings for the future.

How are they “paying into a system” they will never use? Is this fluffy language for they are using a stolen identity?

And I have very little sympathy for people that send money to their families in other countries and than cry about having no savings.

[Anonymous]

Wouldn't she still technically be a citizen of her country of birth since she never gave up the passport? And presumably if she's elderly and only came here 15 years ago, she would have a work history in that country? If so, her best bet is to go back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What kind of undocumented, like fully off the grid? Or in the system in some temporary status?

Nope. No temporary status, just expired guest visa.

Her best bet is to go back to her home country.

We are immigrants now US citizens. We've lived here for over 50 years.

My sibling doesn't have much savings, and she is thinking of going back to our home country when she is much older because it's so much cheaper there than here. Unlike your friend, my sister is no longer a citizen of that country, so she'd have to regain her citizenship or apply for permanent residence or something.

I'm sorry for her plight. My mother has dementia. But, your friend doesn't have any real options here in the US as someone who is not here legally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is going to be a huge problem in the US in the future. Millions are paying into a system that they will never get to use. They also are the ones who tend to be more paycheck-to-paycheck and less prone to having a savings for the future.

How are they “paying into a system” they will never use? Is this fluffy language for they are using a stolen identity?

And I have very little sympathy for people that send money to their families in other countries and than cry about having no savings.

How dare they support their families! Those babies and geriatrics should get their own jobs!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is going to be a huge problem in the US in the future. Millions are paying into a system that they will never get to use. They also are the ones who tend to be more paycheck-to-paycheck and less prone to having a savings for the future.

How are they “paying into a system” they will never use? Is this fluffy language for they are using a stolen identity?

And I have very little sympathy for people that send money to their families in other countries and than cry about having no savings.

How dare they support their families! Those babies and geriatrics should get their own jobs!

If OP’s friend has been supporting overseas family, she should definitely move home and let them care for her now.

But, OP hasn’t said this is the case.