Enough is enough with the redshirting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

So they'd have Oct-Dec birthday in 2014? That's 11-9 months older than the oldest regular 3rd grader. My son had one in his class, the kid was fine except a little better at sports/leadership esp during recess, which was the daily social life of DS. But I think if they misbehave, they'd misbehave even without being redshirted.

Yes. This is OP. We expected summer redshirts but we did not expect this. It’s gotten so out of hand.

Why is it “getting” out of hand? It’s 3rd grade now. Haven’t the peers stayed the same since kindergarten? Either change schools or make the best of it. Are you also the poster constantly agitating about the basketball team that is by grade and is a constant source of frustration for you?

We have room for everyone on our schools sports team because it’s no cut but it is by grade so the oldest kids tend to be best. Which is fine, just annoying. They definitely let everyone know they are better too. It’s all fine, I would just describe it as annoying since many people use it as a tool to have an advantage in team sports and don’t really have a reason.

Here’s a hot take on the sports advantage issue: if having a few older kids on the team makes a big difference to whether or not your kid plays, your kid isn’t that good anyway, so who cares?

It’s not a few, it’s half. I said that in an earliest post. Half are a year older so the younger kid has to be better than kids older to play. Your comment is rude and it’s actually just wrong.

This whole thread is rude and reeks of sour grapes. Bunch of bored moms acting like their kids’ elementary schools are some sort of Battle Royale.

Some kids are naturally smarter, is that fair to the dumber kids? Some kids are more athletic, is that fair to the awkward kids? Some kids are really good looking, is that fair to the non-looker kids?

Life isn’t fair. Other families decisions about when to send their kid to school doesn’t *actually* affect your kid. You’re just ridiculously competitive.

(And no, none of my kids were redshirted or otherwise held back.)

We aren’t talking about a natural advantage. We are talking about an intentional manipulation. How can you pretend that class rankings are not affected by this? Many of us have personal experience. You can’t gaslight us that easily.

This is why I said you’re just competitive but trying to gaslight the rest of us that you have a real concern. Class rankings don’t affect your kid’s education. And I know your follow-up will be something along the lines of college admissions, but again, you’re just after prestige and bragging rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strange how it seems so many of you don’t understand how cutoff dates are arbitrary. There will always be someone on the edge of the cutoff who will either be the oldest or the youngest. Whining about how it’s not fair serves no purpose and doesn’t even make logical sense.

Maybe you would feel different if your own kid was having issues that were caused by people holding their kids back. If your kid can start but you hold back then you are gaming the system in order to benefit your own child at the expense of parents who didn’t play games like that. That is inherently unfair.

And maybe you would feel different if your kid was having issues that cause you to hold back, issues that aren’t obvious and are private not shared with the other parents.

If it’s not obvious, then how big of an issue could it be?

Do you see every kids report card?

Do they give report cards in preschool when you are making the decision to send on time or hold back?

I got a progress report and talked about skills at my preschool conferences. How many letters, numbers they could name, write, identify, etc. What did you talk about at yours?

Our play-based preschool did nothing of the sort. They did not work on letters or numbers at all. They discussed things like how they contributed to discussions, worked with peers, followed directions, engaged at circle time, activities they enjoyed or disliked, emotional temperament.

Ok. It was asked and answered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

So they'd have Oct-Dec birthday in 2014? That's 11-9 months older than the oldest regular 3rd grader. My son had one in his class, the kid was fine except a little better at sports/leadership esp during recess, which was the daily social life of DS. But I think if they misbehave, they'd misbehave even without being redshirted.

Yes. This is OP. We expected summer redshirts but we did not expect this. It’s gotten so out of hand.

Why is it “getting” out of hand? It’s 3rd grade now. Haven’t the peers stayed the same since kindergarten? Either change schools or make the best of it. Are you also the poster constantly agitating about the basketball team that is by grade and is a constant source of frustration for you?

We have room for everyone on our schools sports team because it’s no cut but it is by grade so the oldest kids tend to be best. Which is fine, just annoying. They definitely let everyone know they are better too. It’s all fine, I would just describe it as annoying since many people use it as a tool to have an advantage in team sports and don’t really have a reason.

Here’s a hot take on the sports advantage issue: if having a few older kids on the team makes a big difference to whether or not your kid plays, your kid isn’t that good anyway, so who cares?

It’s not a few, it’s half. I said that in an earliest post. Half are a year older so the younger kid has to be better than kids older to play. Your comment is rude and it’s actually just wrong.

This whole thread is rude and reeks of sour grapes. Bunch of bored moms acting like their kids’ elementary schools are some sort of Battle Royale.

Some kids are naturally smarter, is that fair to the dumber kids? Some kids are more athletic, is that fair to the awkward kids? Some kids are really good looking, is that fair to the non-looker kids?

Life isn’t fair. Other families decisions about when to send their kid to school doesn’t *actually* affect your kid. You’re just ridiculously competitive.

(And no, none of my kids were redshirted or otherwise held back.)

It’s not sour grapes or whining about unfairness. It’s more of an awareness of how much kids who are the wrong age for a grade can affect the dynamic of the grade and the classroom.

For example, my 4th grade DD has 5+ classmates turning 11 in the next 3 months. One is a competitive swimmer but has poisoned conversations with her classmates and with other families by constantly bragging about how much faster she is (as she should be!) and about the events she does that other kids can’t do (because they are in younger age groups and can’t swim those events yet). Another has parents who are constantly complaining about the offerings not meeting his advanced academic needs, which made everyone else paranoid about the curriculum and created a ton of second-guessing of teachers and school leadership. And so on. From a developmental and social perspective, I can see that it will be harder in 5th and 6th grade before it gets easier- having 12 or 13 year olds in school social settings with 10 and 11 year olds isn’t healthy.

It doesn’t directly affect my child’s access to resources, but it certainly poisons the well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strange how it seems so many of you don’t understand how cutoff dates are arbitrary. There will always be someone on the edge of the cutoff who will either be the oldest or the youngest. Whining about how it’s not fair serves no purpose and doesn’t even make logical sense.

Maybe you would feel different if your own kid was having issues that were caused by people holding their kids back. If your kid can start but you hold back then you are gaming the system in order to benefit your own child at the expense of parents who didn’t play games like that. That is inherently unfair.

And maybe you would feel different if your kid was having issues that cause you to hold back, issues that aren’t obvious and are private not shared with the other parents.

If it’s not obvious, then how big of an issue could it be?

Big enough to choose to redshirt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

So they'd have Oct-Dec birthday in 2014? That's 11-9 months older than the oldest regular 3rd grader. My son had one in his class, the kid was fine except a little better at sports/leadership esp during recess, which was the daily social life of DS. But I think if they misbehave, they'd misbehave even without being redshirted.

Yes. This is OP. We expected summer redshirts but we did not expect this. It’s gotten so out of hand.

Why is it “getting” out of hand? It’s 3rd grade now. Haven’t the peers stayed the same since kindergarten? Either change schools or make the best of it. Are you also the poster constantly agitating about the basketball team that is by grade and is a constant source of frustration for you?

We have room for everyone on our schools sports team because it’s no cut but it is by grade so the oldest kids tend to be best. Which is fine, just annoying. They definitely let everyone know they are better too. It’s all fine, I would just describe it as annoying since many people use it as a tool to have an advantage in team sports and don’t really have a reason.

Here’s a hot take on the sports advantage issue: if having a few older kids on the team makes a big difference to whether or not your kid plays, your kid isn’t that good anyway, so who cares?

It’s not a few, it’s half. I said that in an earliest post. Half are a year older so the younger kid has to be better than kids older to play. Your comment is rude and it’s actually just wrong.

This whole thread is rude and reeks of sour grapes. Bunch of bored moms acting like their kids’ elementary schools are some sort of Battle Royale.

Some kids are naturally smarter, is that fair to the dumber kids? Some kids are more athletic, is that fair to the awkward kids? Some kids are really good looking, is that fair to the non-looker kids?

Life isn’t fair. Other families decisions about when to send their kid to school doesn’t *actually* affect your kid. You’re just ridiculously competitive.

(And no, none of my kids were redshirted or otherwise held back.)

We aren’t talking about a natural advantage. We are talking about an intentional manipulation. How can you pretend that class rankings are not affected by this? Many of us have personal experience. You can’t gaslight us that easily.

Exactly, it’s an artificial manipulation. Like you brought up the gift of more athletic, size..

Yes my kids is off the charts big and athletic. He does play up a full year in soccer and he looks average sized because he’s the youngest. Meanwhile average sized kids who are 10 appear to be much bigger and tend to be the star. It really doesn’t impact my kid much because by high school none of this matters but it is an artificial manipulation.

[Anonymous]

No in soccer, more in grade sports. Soccer is by age at least

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

So they'd have Oct-Dec birthday in 2014? That's 11-9 months older than the oldest regular 3rd grader. My son had one in his class, the kid was fine except a little better at sports/leadership esp during recess, which was the daily social life of DS. But I think if they misbehave, they'd misbehave even without being redshirted.

Yes. This is OP. We expected summer redshirts but we did not expect this. It’s gotten so out of hand.

Why is it “getting” out of hand? It’s 3rd grade now. Haven’t the peers stayed the same since kindergarten? Either change schools or make the best of it. Are you also the poster constantly agitating about the basketball team that is by grade and is a constant source of frustration for you?

We have room for everyone on our schools sports team because it’s no cut but it is by grade so the oldest kids tend to be best. Which is fine, just annoying. They definitely let everyone know they are better too. It’s all fine, I would just describe it as annoying since many people use it as a tool to have an advantage in team sports and don’t really have a reason.

Here’s a hot take on the sports advantage issue: if having a few older kids on the team makes a big difference to whether or not your kid plays, your kid isn’t that good anyway, so who cares?

It’s not a few, it’s half. I said that in an earliest post. Half are a year older so the younger kid has to be better than kids older to play. Your comment is rude and it’s actually just wrong.

This whole thread is rude and reeks of sour grapes. Bunch of bored moms acting like their kids’ elementary schools are some sort of Battle Royale.

Some kids are naturally smarter, is that fair to the dumber kids? Some kids are more athletic, is that fair to the awkward kids? Some kids are really good looking, is that fair to the non-looker kids?

Life isn’t fair. Other families decisions about when to send their kid to school doesn’t *actually* affect your kid. You’re just ridiculously competitive.

(And no, none of my kids were redshirted or otherwise held back.)

We aren’t talking about a natural advantage. We are talking about an intentional manipulation. How can you pretend that class rankings are not affected by this? Many of us have personal experience. You can’t gaslight us that easily.

This is why I said you’re just competitive but trying to gaslight the rest of us that you have a real concern. Class rankings don’t affect your kid’s education. And I know your follow-up will be something along the lines of college admissions, but again, you’re just after prestige and bragging rights.

Yes it certainly does affect education because as was described above, GT programs are heavily weighted in favor of red shirted kids. Eff that.


I wasn’t competitive which is why we didn’t redshirt. But now that I see what is going on I’ll be damned if I just accept it with a smile. If everyone else is going to be this way then I will have to adjust and that is nit a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strange how it seems so many of you don’t understand how cutoff dates are arbitrary. There will always be someone on the edge of the cutoff who will either be the oldest or the youngest. Whining about how it’s not fair serves no purpose and doesn’t even make logical sense.

Maybe you would feel different if your own kid was having issues that were caused by people holding their kids back. If your kid can start but you hold back then you are gaming the system in order to benefit your own child at the expense of parents who didn’t play games like that. That is inherently unfair.

And maybe you would feel different if your kid was having issues that cause you to hold back, issues that aren’t obvious and are private not shared with the other parents.

If it’s not obvious, then how big of an issue could it be?

Do you see every kids report card?

Do they give report cards in preschool when you are making the decision to send on time or hold back?

In our case yes, we had progress reports, and it was the teachers recommendation.

[Anonymous]

There's always parents who will redshirt. The current challenge is so many kids in the current third grade cohort were redshirts or repeated kinder because of Covid. Its an unusually large number of kids compared to other grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What? My fourth grader won’t be ten until next summer. He’d be so embarrassed to be going into THIRD grade as a ten year old. What is the point of this?

OP didn’t say they were going into third grade as a 10 yo. OP said that in December, more than 3 months into the year, they were 10 yo. They were only held back 1 year, which isn’t that big a difference.

It’s only a year but it’s a big gap in elementary.

It’s not only a year though. Let’s be generous and say this kid turned ten today. They’re still 20 months older than kids who are supposed to be in that grade. It’s absurd.

That would make them 9 not 10. OP is talking about kids held back twice not redshirting.

[Anonymous]

^ responded to wrong person sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

So they'd have Oct-Dec birthday in 2014? That's 11-9 months older than the oldest regular 3rd grader. My son had one in his class, the kid was fine except a little better at sports/leadership esp during recess, which was the daily social life of DS. But I think if they misbehave, they'd misbehave even without being redshirted.

Yes. This is OP. We expected summer redshirts but we did not expect this. It’s gotten so out of hand.

Why is it “getting” out of hand? It’s 3rd grade now. Haven’t the peers stayed the same since kindergarten? Either change schools or make the best of it. Are you also the poster constantly agitating about the basketball team that is by grade and is a constant source of frustration for you?

We have room for everyone on our schools sports team because it’s no cut but it is by grade so the oldest kids tend to be best. Which is fine, just annoying. They definitely let everyone know they are better too. It’s all fine, I would just describe it as annoying since many people use it as a tool to have an advantage in team sports and don’t really have a reason.

Here’s a hot take on the sports advantage issue: if having a few older kids on the team makes a big difference to whether or not your kid plays, your kid isn’t that good anyway, so who cares?

It’s not a few, it’s half. I said that in an earliest post. Half are a year older so the younger kid has to be better than kids older to play. Your comment is rude and it’s actually just wrong.

This whole thread is rude and reeks of sour grapes. Bunch of bored moms acting like their kids’ elementary schools are some sort of Battle Royale.

Some kids are naturally smarter, is that fair to the dumber kids? Some kids are more athletic, is that fair to the awkward kids? Some kids are really good looking, is that fair to the non-looker kids?

Life isn’t fair. Other families decisions about when to send their kid to school doesn’t *actually* affect your kid. You’re just ridiculously competitive.

(And no, none of my kids were redshirted or otherwise held back.)

We aren’t talking about a natural advantage. We are talking about an intentional manipulation. How can you pretend that class rankings are not affected by this? Many of us have personal experience. You can’t gaslight us that easily.

This is why I said you’re just competitive but trying to gaslight the rest of us that you have a real concern. Class rankings don’t affect your kid’s education. And I know your follow-up will be something along the lines of college admissions, but again, you’re just after prestige and bragging rights.

Class rankings do! There are many public universities where the top 10 percent get autoadmits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What? My fourth grader won’t be ten until next summer. He’d be so embarrassed to be going into THIRD grade as a ten year old. What is the point of this?

OP didn’t say they were going into third grade as a 10 yo. OP said that in December, more than 3 months into the year, they were 10 yo. They were only held back 1 year, which isn’t that big a difference.

Yes this is the OP. Redshirting is fine and expected, it’s how far it’s been pushed where people want a 2 year advantage. It’s gone too far
It’s only a year but it’s a big gap in elementary.

It’s not only a year though. Let’s be generous and say this kid turned ten today. They’re still 20 months older than kids who are supposed to be in that grade. It’s absurd.

That would make them 9 not 10. OP is talking about kids held back twice not redshirting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strange how it seems so many of you don’t understand how cutoff dates are arbitrary. There will always be someone on the edge of the cutoff who will either be the oldest or the youngest. Whining about how it’s not fair serves no purpose and doesn’t even make logical sense.

I agree with you that cutoff dates are arbitrary and there will always be kids who are oldest/youngest. I disagree with you that the current ability to ignore the published cutoffs and choose a different grade for your child is necessary or fair. In some school systems, the cutoffs are hard and you cannot redshirt, ensuring the age spread within a grade remains 12 months. I wish this were our rule because I think it’s a better and more fair system. People are allowed to want this and work toward its implementation. You’re allowed to prefer the current rules. You don’t need to accuse people of misunderstanding or act pedantic when people have an opinion different from yours.

So you think it’s “fair” to not allow kids to be held back (for example) even if academically they’re not ready for the next grade?

Being held back for academic performance reasons is not the same as redshirting.

Of course it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

So they'd have Oct-Dec birthday in 2014? That's 11-9 months older than the oldest regular 3rd grader. My son had one in his class, the kid was fine except a little better at sports/leadership esp during recess, which was the daily social life of DS. But I think if they misbehave, they'd misbehave even without being redshirted.

Yes. This is OP. We expected summer redshirts but we did not expect this. It’s gotten so out of hand.

Why is it “getting” out of hand? It’s 3rd grade now. Haven’t the peers stayed the same since kindergarten? Either change schools or make the best of it. Are you also the poster constantly agitating about the basketball team that is by grade and is a constant source of frustration for you?

We have room for everyone on our schools sports team because it’s no cut but it is by grade so the oldest kids tend to be best. Which is fine, just annoying. They definitely let everyone know they are better too. It’s all fine, I would just describe it as annoying since many people use it as a tool to have an advantage in team sports and don’t really have a reason.

Here’s a hot take on the sports advantage issue: if having a few older kids on the team makes a big difference to whether or not your kid plays, your kid isn’t that good anyway, so who cares?

It’s not a few, it’s half. I said that in an earliest post. Half are a year older so the younger kid has to be better than kids older to play. Your comment is rude and it’s actually just wrong.

This whole thread is rude and reeks of sour grapes. Bunch of bored moms acting like their kids’ elementary schools are some sort of Battle Royale.

Some kids are naturally smarter, is that fair to the dumber kids? Some kids are more athletic, is that fair to the awkward kids? Some kids are really good looking, is that fair to the non-looker kids?

Life isn’t fair. Other families decisions about when to send their kid to school doesn’t *actually* affect your kid. You’re just ridiculously competitive.

(And no, none of my kids were redshirted or otherwise held back.)

We aren’t talking about a natural advantage. We are talking about an intentional manipulation. How can you pretend that class rankings are not affected by this? Many of us have personal experience. You can’t gaslight us that easily.

This is why I said you’re just competitive but trying to gaslight the rest of us that you have a real concern. Class rankings don’t affect your kid’s education. And I know your follow-up will be something along the lines of college admissions, but again, you’re just after prestige and bragging rights.

Class rankings do! There are many public universities where the top 10 percent get autoadmits.

Show me a study that shows that redshirted kids are more likely to make the top ten percent.