Fascinating article from the WSJ re the methods of an "elite" college counseling firm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article should tell you how fake everything is.. from what activities to choose to what classes etc to take. Everything is curated. What a way to kill your innate passion and creativity.. 11 year olds already on this path to get into an Ivy.

From the article..

One of her stu­dents has 23 tu­tors help­ing her on aca­d­e­mic sub­jects and test prepa­ra­tion. The stu­dent is also writ­ing a novel, edit­ing an es­say for a com­pet­i­tive jour­nal and work­ing on a re­search pa­per that looks at the lin­guis­tic pat­terns in Tay­lor Swift songs.

I'm happy my kids had a happy childhood (actual childhood) and got to choose their activities because they enjoyed them.

BTW, one attended their top choice the other attended their 2nd choice (top was a T10, 2nd was a T40 and in reality a better fit for them and they are thriving there).

Best part, my kids got to grow up as they should and were not trying to write a novel in HS or do research as a 12 yo.

The one at a T40 is majoring in one of the hardest engineering (Chem Eng) and has all As in every Chem Eng Course. The kid thinks Thermo and Heat&Mass transfer is easy and fun. They have a bright future ahead and most importantly are healthy and happy!

There are kids at T10, in ChemE or similarly hard fields, who also are healthy and thriving there, who got there after a healthy childhood with no novel writing or middle school research or founding nonprofits or 23 tutors. We are parents to 2 and have another like yours where t30-40 is going to be the better fit—they likely won’t apply to T10 knowing how well it suits the others and that environment is not where they will thrive. It is a false dichotomy to suggest that being at a T10 means you either faked your way in or did not have a healthy happy childhood. Those schools are a wonderful fit and the right environment for many who are there. These crimson kids are not the norm at these schools.

I'm PP: Yes, I know there are plenty who are happy and thriving at those schools. The ones who are are exactly as you described---kids who got there thru their own work and motivation and drive. Those are the ones who will go on to excel in life, because it's 100% their own work and drive.
Those who got there with $50K+ college counselors will eventually have to learn to do things themselves.

But they do.
I can tell a lot of you guys either (1) aren't affluent and haven't paid for this type of scaffolding or support (so haven't seen when it falls away how the kids do or (2) don't even have kids at T20.
These kids do figure it out - or find shortcuts. I mean I found shortcuts in college and in life, and I had no help at all getting there.
You guys are all freaking out about nothing - or really the "unfairness" of it all.
Life is unfair.
Deal with the cards you are dealt and make the most of it.

Shortcuts is an interesting way of saying paying smarter people to take tests and write essays (also rampant at t10s)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is such a sad state of affairs. Basically, we manufacture kids to get into these schools for the perception of excellence, even going as far as to tell them to give up pursuits they may be interested in if they can’t excel. So, the kid who loves playing the piano is told to give it up if they don’t become a concert pianist by 16? Absurd.

I’d love to see the post-collegiate stats: how many of these students completed their studies in four years? How many stayed with the same discipline? How many are thriving now? I’d bet it’s a different picture.

This story also reminds me of two great TV and film quotes:

"I think mediocrity is too well hidden by parents who hire private tutors.” (HBO’s Industry)

"Most of these Harvard MBA types, they don't add up to dog s**t. Gimme guys who are poor, smart and hungry. And no feelings. You win a few, you lose a few, but you keep on fighting . . . and if you need a friend, get a dog.” (Gordon Gekko, Wall Street)

Once more, seems like folks aren't reading the article.

Regardless of how distasteful one finds the tactics, the article says that the kids they advise getting into say Princeton have 4.0 GPAs, 1568 average SAT scores and an average AP exam score of 4.8 on 10+ APs.

Even for this guy, the stats are just table stakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article should tell you how fake everything is.. from what activities to choose to what classes etc to take. Everything is curated. What a way to kill your innate passion and creativity.. 11 year olds already on this path to get into an Ivy.

From the article..

One of her stu­dents has 23 tu­tors help­ing her on aca­d­e­mic sub­jects and test prepa­ra­tion. The stu­dent is also writ­ing a novel, edit­ing an es­say for a com­pet­i­tive jour­nal and work­ing on a re­search pa­per that looks at the lin­guis­tic pat­terns in Tay­lor Swift songs.

I'm happy my kids had a happy childhood (actual childhood) and got to choose their activities because they enjoyed them.

BTW, one attended their top choice the other attended their 2nd choice (top was a T10, 2nd was a T40 and in reality a better fit for them and they are thriving there).

Best part, my kids got to grow up as they should and were not trying to write a novel in HS or do research as a 12 yo.

The one at a T40 is majoring in one of the hardest engineering (Chem Eng) and has all As in every Chem Eng Course. The kid thinks Thermo and Heat&Mass transfer is easy and fun. They have a bright future ahead and most importantly are healthy and happy!

There are kids at T10, in ChemE or similarly hard fields, who also are healthy and thriving there, who got there after a healthy childhood with no novel writing or middle school research or founding nonprofits or 23 tutors. We are parents to 2 and have another like yours where t30-40 is going to be the better fit—they likely won’t apply to T10 knowing how well it suits the others and that environment is not where they will thrive. It is a false dichotomy to suggest that being at a T10 means you either faked your way in or did not have a healthy happy childhood. Those schools are a wonderful fit and the right environment for many who are there. These crimson kids are not the norm at these schools.

I'm PP: Yes, I know there are plenty who are happy and thriving at those schools. The ones who are are exactly as you described---kids who got there thru their own work and motivation and drive. Those are the ones who will go on to excel in life, because it's 100% their own work and drive.
Those who got there with $50K+ college counselors will eventually have to learn to do things themselves.

But they do.
I can tell a lot of you guys either (1) aren't affluent and haven't paid for this type of scaffolding or support (so haven't seen when it falls away how the kids do or (2) don't even have kids at T20.
These kids do figure it out - or find shortcuts. I mean I found shortcuts in college and in life, and I had no help at all getting there.
You guys are all freaking out about nothing - or really the "unfairness" of it all.
Life is unfair.
Deal with the cards you are dealt and make the most of it.

Shortcuts is an interesting way of saying paying smarter people to take tests and write essays (also rampant at t10s)

you have a chip on your shoulder and need to let it go. venting here does nothing except make you look a little sad.

Ppl have been finding ways into Ivies since the beginning - its just that its not longer just legacies and WASPs, its anyone who has that will to start planning in 8th grade and pay a shit $$$.

My shortcuts didn't include "cheating" - just weird study habits (lots of memorization), getting the old tests from my sorority's "test files" at my (now) T10 college back in the 1990s, kissing as* with professors, networking like crazy and being really socially and politically savvy to figure out who could help me get where I wanted to go.
It worked.

Get over your resentment. And if you actually have college aged kids, connect with them, give them real life skills to succeed. That all starts at home.

[Anonymous]

The highly curated, consultant-driven, prestige-fixated families that resort to this kind of thing are typically only fixated on a few schools:

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Duke, and Penn. And it seems to work. Those six are nearly impossible to get in for otherwise brilliant but unhooked students.

The rest of the top 25 - from MIT to Michigan - are filled with really bright and ambitious students who got in on their own merit. No one is locked out of Cornell or Rice or Brown or Notre Dame or whatever because they didn't use a $250,000 college counselor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The highly curated, consultant-driven, prestige-fixated families that resort to this kind of thing are typically only fixated on a few schools:

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Duke, and Penn. And it seems to work. Those six are nearly impossible to get in for otherwise brilliant but unhooked students.

The rest of the top 25 - from MIT to Michigan - are filled with really bright and ambitious students who got in on their own merit. No one is locked out of Cornell or Rice or Brown or Notre Dame or whatever because they didn't use a $250,000 college counselor.

Bingo.

And I actually know quite a few who’ve gotten into Stanford and Duke with a regular old five or $10,000 local college counselor.

The others you listed? Nope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, the same advice is available here for free. But these are folks who can drop $100k like it's a dime, so why not outsource.

They are outsourcing one of the last major parenting tasks.

Sad all around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The highly curated, consultant-driven, prestige-fixated families that resort to this kind of thing are typically only fixated on a few schools:

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Duke, and Penn. And it seems to work. Those six are nearly impossible to get in for otherwise brilliant but unhooked students.

The rest of the top 25 - from MIT to Michigan - are filled with really bright and ambitious students who got in on their own merit. No one is locked out of Cornell or Rice or Brown or Notre Dame or whatever because they didn't use a $250,000 college counselor.

From the article:

Among his clients, 24 earned admission to Yale, 34 to Stanford and 48 to Cornell.

Those numbers seem fairly proportional to the size of the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The highly curated, consultant-driven, prestige-fixated families that resort to this kind of thing are typically only fixated on a few schools:

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Duke, and Penn. And it seems to work. Those six are nearly impossible to get in for otherwise brilliant but unhooked students.

The rest of the top 25 - from MIT to Michigan - are filled with really bright and ambitious students who got in on their own merit. No one is locked out of Cornell or Rice or Brown or Notre Dame or whatever because they didn't use a $250,000 college counselor.

From the article:

Among his clients, 24 earned admission to Yale, 34 to Stanford and 48 to Cornell.

Those numbers seem fairly proportional to the size of the schools.

Cornell is four times as large as Yale, but only two times as many of his clients were admitted there. That’s not proportional.

And that’s admissions. How many of his cross-admitted clients do you want to bet are actually enrolling at Cornell over Yale? I’d bet zero. And you have to actually enroll to lock out another student.

The impact of these tactics is indeed extremely localized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The highly curated, consultant-driven, prestige-fixated families that resort to this kind of thing are typically only fixated on a few schools:

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Duke, and Penn. And it seems to work. Those six are nearly impossible to get in for otherwise brilliant but unhooked students.

The rest of the top 25 - from MIT to Michigan - are filled with really bright and ambitious students who got in on their own merit. No one is locked out of Cornell or Rice or Brown or Notre Dame or whatever because they didn't use a $250,000 college counselor.

From the article:

Among his clients, 24 earned admission to Yale, 34 to Stanford and 48 to Cornell.

Those numbers seem fairly proportional to the size of the schools.

was this in one cycle? how many clients did he have that cycle? I see Crimson ads a lot. I'd think they'd have thousands of clients.

Sarah H probably has numbers like this and she doenst arrange for tutors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The highly curated, consultant-driven, prestige-fixated families that resort to this kind of thing are typically only fixated on a few schools:

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Duke, and Penn. And it seems to work. Those six are nearly impossible to get in for otherwise brilliant but unhooked students.

The rest of the top 25 - from MIT to Michigan - are filled with really bright and ambitious students who got in on their own merit. No one is locked out of Cornell or Rice or Brown or Notre Dame or whatever because they didn't use a $250,000 college counselor.

From the article:

Among his clients, 24 earned admission to Yale, 34 to Stanford and 48 to Cornell.

Those numbers seem fairly proportional to the size of the schools.

was this in one cycle? how many clients did he have that cycle? I see Crimson ads a lot. I'd think they'd have thousands of clients.

Sarah H probably has numbers like this and she doenst arrange for tutors

She def does not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The highly curated, consultant-driven, prestige-fixated families that resort to this kind of thing are typically only fixated on a few schools:

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Duke, and Penn. And it seems to work. Those six are nearly impossible to get in for otherwise brilliant but unhooked students.

The rest of the top 25 - from MIT to Michigan - are filled with really bright and ambitious students who got in on their own merit. No one is locked out of Cornell or Rice or Brown or Notre Dame or whatever because they didn't use a $250,000 college counselor.

From the article:

Among his clients, 24 earned admission to Yale, 34 to Stanford and 48 to Cornell.

Those numbers seem fairly proportional to the size of the schools.

was this in one cycle? how many clients did he have that cycle? I see Crimson ads a lot. I'd think they'd have thousands of clients.

Sarah H probably has numbers like this and she doenst arrange for tutors

I think she plays down market more. Not so up tier.

There was a FB AN25post earlier that showed me how small her pool actually is. It had to do with someone asking for NYU admit rates. NYU you'd presume would have a LOT of applicants. They had 12 AN candidates apply in the last cycle (split btw RD and ED). Someone was asking for the breakdown of TO vs submitting tests, and who had been successful. They gave the details on that (I thought it was helpful and my kid isn't applying to NYU).

I don't think she has that many clients applying and getting into T20. And her population tends to be less affluent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The highly curated, consultant-driven, prestige-fixated families that resort to this kind of thing are typically only fixated on a few schools:

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Duke, and Penn. And it seems to work. Those six are nearly impossible to get in for otherwise brilliant but unhooked students.

The rest of the top 25 - from MIT to Michigan - are filled with really bright and ambitious students who got in on their own merit. No one is locked out of Cornell or Rice or Brown or Notre Dame or whatever because they didn't use a $250,000 college counselor.

From the article:

Among his clients, 24 earned admission to Yale, 34 to Stanford and 48 to Cornell.

Those numbers seem fairly proportional to the size of the schools.

was this in one cycle? how many clients did he have that cycle? I see Crimson ads a lot. I'd think they'd have thousands of clients.

Sarah H probably has numbers like this and she doenst arrange for tutors

Yes, from the article. It was one cycle:

"This year, Beaton’s clients made up nearly 2% of students admitted to the undergraduate class of 2028 at several elite schools including Brown, Columbia, Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania. Among his clients, 24 earned admission to Yale, 34 to Stanford and 48 to Cornell. The acceptance letters were certified by PricewaterhouseCoopers and a list of students admitted was provided by Beaton to The Wall Street Journal."

[Anonymous]

Crimson is for big-money, elite CEO type families.

Sara H/AN is for middle management accountants living in Texas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The highly curated, consultant-driven, prestige-fixated families that resort to this kind of thing are typically only fixated on a few schools:

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Duke, and Penn. And it seems to work. Those six are nearly impossible to get in for otherwise brilliant but unhooked students.

The rest of the top 25 - from MIT to Michigan - are filled with really bright and ambitious students who got in on their own merit. No one is locked out of Cornell or Rice or Brown or Notre Dame or whatever because they didn't use a $250,000 college counselor.

From the article:

Among his clients, 24 earned admission to Yale, 34 to Stanford and 48 to Cornell.

Those numbers seem fairly proportional to the size of the schools.

was this in one cycle? how many clients did he have that cycle? I see Crimson ads a lot. I'd think they'd have thousands of clients.

Sarah H probably has numbers like this and she doenst arrange for tutors

Crimson is a big company:

Private equity is also paying attention. Crimson, launched in 2013, is now valued at $554 million after several funding rounds, according to PitchBook. Investors include venture capital giants Tiger Management and related firm Tiger Global Management, plus Icehouse Ventures, former New Zealand Prime Minister John Key and Verlinvest, a Brussels-based fund created by the founding families of Anheuser-Busch.

He has set up 26 offices in 21 countries, acquired five counseling businesses that he remade to implement his strategy and built an accredited online high school, which now has 2,000 students. The company employs 850 full-time staff, and has another 3,000 part-time tutors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Crimson is for big-money, elite CEO type families.

Sara H/AN is for middle management accountants living in Texas.

lol