Norway, Spain and Ireland recognize Palestinian state

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are people here that stupid not to understand that Palestinians will never accept any two-state solution? They will never stop until there is no Isreal.

And what has Israel demonstrated from the moment it was established? They could have chosen to live among the Palestinians and share the land. Instead they chose theft and murder. Why would anyone living there find that acceptable? What reason has Israel given these people to trust them as their neighbors?

It's literally the exact opposite of this. Israel agreed to share the land. The Palestinians attacked. And attacked. And attacked.
The vast majority of Israelis DON'T CARE who is living next door. They wouldn't give a flying f--k about Palestinians if there weren't rocket attacks.
Palestinians HATE Israelis though.

lol how is this different than some guy from Brazil showing up on the doorstep of your house in Maryland and agreeing to share your property with you? Well, mostly. You actually get to keep around 40% of the land, but it’s the part without strategic value. But he’s willing to share, so you should be thankful!

Well, let's count just a few of the ways in which it's different:

1. The Brazilian and thousands of other Brazilians didn't buy property from you in Maryland and live there, nor did Maryland have a history of indigenous Brazilians.

2. The UN didn't declare and establish an independent Brazilian nation in Maryland, nor would you attack and attempt to annihilate all Brazilians in Maryland if, in fact, the UN had done so.

Cool story, bro.

Now let’s cover some facts.

1. The percentage of those “purchased properties” (which, incidentally, were often purchased far below market value under threat of violence or even death) amounted to less than 1/80th of 1% of the partition in Israel’s favor. So sure, they bought land and then the U.N. gave them 8,000x that amount in additional land - for free!

2. The U.N. … ? You want everyone to respect the U.N.’s decision on the singular day the final terms of the partition were conceived, but then join you in condemning that same U.N. as corrupt co-conspirators of Hamas on every other day since?

3. Comparative death toll is what? 74 dead Palestinians for every 1 dead Israeli since 1948? 74:1 … ? You call that annihilation of the Israelis? The Jews? On what planet do you cultivate the psychopharmaceuticals necessary to perceive this conflict as an annihilation of anyone other than the Palestinians?

This is like a fever dream. The things you expect others to believe …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are people here that stupid not to understand that Palestinians will never accept any two-state solution? They will never stop until there is no Isreal.

Why should they accept a two state solution.

Because after 70+ years of fighting, that's as good as it gets. Or maybe you'd rather drag this out for another few decades?

So if someone tries to steal your home, and they manage to hold you off for a bit, you'd just decide to share it with the thief? Since that's, ya know, as good as it gets after a while.

Yes. What exactly do you think has been happening for the entire course of human history? Why do you think most of Europe is Roman/Christian today and not Pagan? Why do you think European language is Latin based?

You're a moron, and a dishonest one at that. Oppressed and occupied people will always have a moral right to fight back. There's no time limit and no statute of limitations on oppression.

If someone came and tried to murder your family and take your home you'd call the cops. But you expect the Palestinians to just hand over the keys.

My family was murdered and raped and conquered. I am Scottish. Should I launch missiles at London?

What a bunch of racist assumptions you are making. As if white people don’t have their own history of oppression. Go back to school.

If you really are Scottish, you hold a British passport and are free to move to London. There are no differences in legal status between you and the English. You have a one-state solution deployed in these fair isles.

And the Palestinians could have a one state solution as well. Or even a two-state solution. All they had to do was stop trying to commit genocide against the Israeli people (and Jewish people as a whole) for a few years. They have had every opportunity! How many Israeli people have to be brutally murdered, raped, and tortured until Israel is “allowed” to defend itself?

Hamas could surrender unconditionally and hand over their weapons and infrastructure immediately, and we can then discuss a plan to either integrate the West Bank and Gaza into Israel, or establish a new Palestinian state, but Hamas will never do that because they do not care about an independent state or the Palestinian people, all they care about is killing Israelis and the Jewish people. All the Palestinian people are to Hamas (and similar counterparts like the PA), is cannon fodder. Period.

Multiple Israeli leaders are on record, for years, that a two-state solution will not happen. But hapless idiots like you keep repeating this like it's possible.

There hasn't been any genocidin' in the West Bank, as far as I know, but the reduction in violence brought nothing but increase in land grab. Israel always wanted the West Bank. It has nothing to do with Palestinians being violent or not. Israel wants that land. But they keep working the hasbara line that they are positively forced, forced I tell you! to grab land, steal water and unleash crazy violent settlers with full IDF protection.

And you can’t take those Israeli extremists (who are extremists in Israel, and not at all considered a majority within the Countries) and separate them from the literal decades spent being the target of an attempted genocide by the Palestinians while the rest of the world tells them to just roll over and let themselves be genocided. If Canada was a terrorist dictatorship who had spent decades indiscriminately raping and murdering Americans, I suspect there would be a small but vocal minority of American extremists saying that there should not be a two state solution.

The vast majority of Israelis just want peace, they want to be safe in their homes, and the Country they have such a strong connection to. The vast majority would celebrate a feasible plan to end the fighting once and for all. Sadly, so long as the extremists are in charge in Palestine, there is no feasible plan towards peace without overthrowing the extremists, which is what Israel is currently doing.

Gonna stop your lying right here. Extremists in Israel are not a minority. They are in the government, they are in the army, they are in the police, they are in the courts. Where did half a million settlers in the West Bank come from? Mars? Where did the judges in the military courts come from that only prosecute 3% of settler crimes against the Palestinians? Where did IDF soldiers come from who look on while the settlers pogrom the Palestinian villages? Where did the IDF sniper came from that assassinated Shireen Abu Akleh? Imported from moon? How is this so-called tiny minority of extremists, in your telling, achieving these grand feats of stealing so much land? do they have magic powers? or are there simply many more of them than you'd admit?

But I grant you that a vast majority of Israelis want peace, which they define as "we get to do what we want and nothing happens to us at the end". Except the homes in which they want to be safe aren't 2-bedroom apartments in Tel Aviv that cost a million dollars. No, they want to be safe in their large cheap single family houses in illegal settlements on stolen land, with roads and electric grids and IDF protection and sparkling swimming pools filled by stolen water, surrounded by a tall fence to keep out all these nasty dirty Arabs, and connected to other outposts like this by fancy roads that Arabs aren't allowed to use.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are people here that stupid not to understand that Palestinians will never accept any two-state solution? They will never stop until there is no Isreal.

And what has Israel demonstrated from the moment it was established? They could have chosen to live among the Palestinians and share the land. Instead they chose theft and murder. Why would anyone living there find that acceptable? What reason has Israel given these people to trust them as their neighbors?

It's literally the exact opposite of this. Israel agreed to share the land. The Palestinians attacked. And attacked. And attacked.
The vast majority of Israelis DON'T CARE who is living next door. They wouldn't give a flying f--k about Palestinians if there weren't rocket attacks.
Palestinians HATE Israelis though.

lol how is this different than some guy from Brazil showing up on the doorstep of your house in Maryland and agreeing to share your property with you? Well, mostly. You actually get to keep around 40% of the land, but it’s the part without strategic value. But he’s willing to share, so you should be thankful!

Well, let's count just a few of the ways in which it's different:

1. The Brazilian and thousands of other Brazilians didn't buy property from you in Maryland and live there, nor did Maryland have a history of indigenous Brazilians.

2. The UN didn't declare and establish an independent Brazilian nation in Maryland, nor would you attack and attempt to annihilate all Brazilians in Maryland if, in fact, the UN had done so.

Cool story, bro.

Now let’s cover some facts.

1. The percentage of those “purchased properties” (which, incidentally, were often purchased far below market value under threat of violence or even death) amounted to less than 1/80th of 1% of the partition in Israel’s favor. So sure, they bought land and then the U.N. gave them 8,000x that amount in additional land - for free!

2. The U.N. … ? You want everyone to respect the U.N.’s decision on the singular day the final terms of the partition were conceived, but then join you in condemning that same U.N. as corrupt co-conspirators of Hamas on every other day since?

3. Comparative death toll is what? 74 dead Palestinians for every 1 dead Israeli since 1948? 74:1 … ? You call that annihilation of the Israelis? The Jews? On what planet do you cultivate the psychopharmaceuticals necessary to perceive this conflict as an annihilation of anyone other than the Palestinians?

This is like a fever dream. The things you expect others to believe …

You are truly ridiculous.

You misunderstood or misconstrued literally every point in the prior post.

Let’s content ourselves with the mutual understanding that the Israel/Palestine situation bears no resemblance whatsoever to a Brazilian showing up in Maryland.

This board challenges one’s faith in humanity’s capabilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are people here that stupid not to understand that Palestinians will never accept any two-state solution? They will never stop until there is no Isreal.

And what has Israel demonstrated from the moment it was established? They could have chosen to live among the Palestinians and share the land. Instead they chose theft and murder. Why would anyone living there find that acceptable? What reason has Israel given these people to trust them as their neighbors?

It's literally the exact opposite of this. Israel agreed to share the land. The Palestinians attacked. And attacked. And attacked.
The vast majority of Israelis DON'T CARE who is living next door. They wouldn't give a flying f--k about Palestinians if there weren't rocket attacks.
Palestinians HATE Israelis though.

lol how is this different than some guy from Brazil showing up on the doorstep of your house in Maryland and agreeing to share your property with you? Well, mostly. You actually get to keep around 40% of the land, but it’s the part without strategic value. But he’s willing to share, so you should be thankful!

Well, let's count just a few of the ways in which it's different:

1. The Brazilian and thousands of other Brazilians didn't buy property from you in Maryland and live there, nor did Maryland have a history of indigenous Brazilians.

2. The UN didn't declare and establish an independent Brazilian nation in Maryland, nor would you attack and attempt to annihilate all Brazilians in Maryland if, in fact, the UN had done so.

Cool story, bro.

Now let’s cover some facts.

1. The percentage of those “purchased properties” (which, incidentally, were often purchased far below market value under threat of violence or even death) amounted to less than 1/80th of 1% of the partition in Israel’s favor. So sure, they bought land and then the U.N. gave them 8,000x that amount in additional land - for free!

2. The U.N. … ? You want everyone to respect the U.N.’s decision on the singular day the final terms of the partition were conceived, but then join you in condemning that same U.N. as corrupt co-conspirators of Hamas on every other day since?

3. Comparative death toll is what? 74 dead Palestinians for every 1 dead Israeli since 1948? 74:1 … ? You call that annihilation of the Israelis? The Jews? On what planet do you cultivate the psychopharmaceuticals necessary to perceive this conflict as an annihilation of anyone other than the Palestinians?

This is like a fever dream. The things you expect others to believe …

You are truly ridiculous.

You misunderstood or misconstrued literally every point in the prior post.

Let’s content ourselves with the mutual understanding that the Israel/Palestine situation bears no resemblance whatsoever to a Brazilian showing up in Maryland.

This board challenges one’s faith in humanity’s capabilities.

Are you incapable of rebutting what the PP said, or what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are people here that stupid not to understand that Palestinians will never accept any two-state solution? They will never stop until there is no Isreal.

Why should they accept a two state solution.

Because after 70+ years of fighting, that's as good as it gets. Or maybe you'd rather drag this out for another few decades?

So if someone tries to steal your home, and they manage to hold you off for a bit, you'd just decide to share it with the thief? Since that's, ya know, as good as it gets after a while.

Yes. What exactly do you think has been happening for the entire course of human history? Why do you think most of Europe is Roman/Christian today and not Pagan? Why do you think European language is Latin based?

You're a moron, and a dishonest one at that. Oppressed and occupied people will always have a moral right to fight back. There's no time limit and no statute of limitations on oppression.

If someone came and tried to murder your family and take your home you'd call the cops. But you expect the Palestinians to just hand over the keys.

My family was murdered and raped and conquered. I am Scottish. Should I launch missiles at London?

What a bunch of racist assumptions you are making. As if white people don’t have their own history of oppression. Go back to school.

Your people fought MANY bloody wars with the British, and your freedom fighters were also labeled terrorists. Ireland is hugely in support of the Palestinian cause. They know what it is to be occupied by greedy colonizers. You want me to pretend I can't see what is plainly obvious. I won't. And your insults mean nothing.

This sounds like a yes too! So basically London and American kids are all fair game for you.

The enimity engendered by the British actions against the Scots have taken generations to calm to a point where people can coexist peacefully (more or less). Talking to older Scot people today, all the bad feelings have not completely disappeared. Same story in Ireland.

It’s going to take time in I/P too. But it won’t work until the oppression has lifted. That has to come before the stopping of the violence can be hoped for. Hence the two state solution. Give Palestinians sovereignty and let them be the actual architects of their fate. Yes there will be Palestinians who for decades will moan about how the Israelis are at fault for everything. But if you take away the actual current power imbalance - unequal laws, military tribunals, rigged court systems, etc, - you take away slowly the reasons for terrorists to be labeled freedom fighters.

[Anonymous]

Israel, we see you and will vote you out.

[Anonymous]

Imagine if they had recognized the "State of Al Qaida" after 9/11.

This is shameful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if they had recognized the "State of Al Qaida" after 9/11.

This is shameful.

Apartheid now, apartheid forever?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are people here that stupid not to understand that Palestinians will never accept any two-state solution? They will never stop until there is no Isreal.

And what has Israel demonstrated from the moment it was established? They could have chosen to live among the Palestinians and share the land. Instead they chose theft and murder. Why would anyone living there find that acceptable? What reason has Israel given these people to trust them as their neighbors?

It's literally the exact opposite of this. Israel agreed to share the land. The Palestinians attacked. And attacked. And attacked.
The vast majority of Israelis DON'T CARE who is living next door. They wouldn't give a flying f--k about Palestinians if there weren't rocket attacks.
Palestinians HATE Israelis though.

lol how is this different than some guy from Brazil showing up on the doorstep of your house in Maryland and agreeing to share your property with you? Well, mostly. You actually get to keep around 40% of the land, but it’s the part without strategic value. But he’s willing to share, so you should be thankful!

Well, let's count just a few of the ways in which it's different:

1. The Brazilian and thousands of other Brazilians didn't buy property from you in Maryland and live there, nor did Maryland have a history of indigenous Brazilians.

2. The UN didn't declare and establish an independent Brazilian nation in Maryland, nor would you attack and attempt to annihilate all Brazilians in Maryland if, in fact, the UN had done so.

Cool story, bro.

Now let’s cover some facts.

1. The percentage of those “purchased properties” (which, incidentally, were often purchased far below market value under threat of violence or even death) amounted to less than 1/80th of 1% of the partition in Israel’s favor. So sure, they bought land and then the U.N. gave them 8,000x that amount in additional land - for free!

2. The U.N. … ? You want everyone to respect the U.N.’s decision on the singular day the final terms of the partition were conceived, but then join you in condemning that same U.N. as corrupt co-conspirators of Hamas on every other day since?

3. Comparative death toll is what? 74 dead Palestinians for every 1 dead Israeli since 1948? 74:1 … ? You call that annihilation of the Israelis? The Jews? On what planet do you cultivate the psychopharmaceuticals necessary to perceive this conflict as an annihilation of anyone other than the Palestinians?

This is like a fever dream. The things you expect others to believe …

You are truly ridiculous.

You misunderstood or misconstrued literally every point in the prior post.

Let’s content ourselves with the mutual understanding that the Israel/Palestine situation bears no resemblance whatsoever to a Brazilian showing up in Maryland.

This board challenges one’s faith in humanity’s capabilities.

Are you incapable of rebutting what the PP said, or what?

Incapable? No.

Unwilling? Yes.

It's a waste of time. PP isn't arguing seriously or in good faith.

It's a propaganda exercise.

[Anonymous]

Genuine question--how is 100+ nations officially recognizing Palestine as a state different than the UN doing the same for Israel in 1948? I see so much disdain for latter, with people saying that UN had no right to make that declaration, but the same people seem to be praising the former. In both cases you have a population living in these places saying they should have the right for self-determination and self-governance, and that the land belongs to them and they want to the world to recognize that. Plus, in both cases, that recognition of soverignity leaves another group pushed out or with less, and with no say about it. So why is the announcement from earlier this week a positive but the 1948 decision unacceptable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Israel, we see you and will vote you out.

We’re going to vote Israel out? Out of what? We’re not on Survivor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Genuine question--how is 100+ nations officially recognizing Palestine as a state different than the UN doing the same for Israel in 1948? I see so much disdain for latter, with people saying that UN had no right to make that declaration, but the same people seem to be praising the former. In both cases you have a population living in these places saying they should have the right for self-determination and self-governance, and that the land belongs to them and they want to the world to recognize that. Plus, in both cases, that recognition of soverignity leaves another group pushed out or with less, and with no say about it. So why is the announcement from earlier this week a positive but the 1948 decision unacceptable?

Bingo.

The Palestinian advocates accuse Israel of hypocrisy (justifiably in certain cases), but are equally hypocritical when it comes to the UN resolutions.

Ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Genuine question--how is 100+ nations officially recognizing Palestine as a state different than the UN doing the same for Israel in 1948? I see so much disdain for latter, with people saying that UN had no right to make that declaration, but the same people seem to be praising the former. In both cases you have a population living in these places saying they should have the right for self-determination and self-governance, and that the land belongs to them and they want to the world to recognize that. Plus, in both cases, that recognition of soverignity leaves another group pushed out or with less, and with no say about it. So why is the announcement from earlier this week a positive but the 1948 decision unacceptable?

Bingo.

The Palestinian advocates accuse Israel of hypocrisy (justifiably in certain cases), but are equally hypocritical when it comes to the UN resolutions.

Ridiculous.

The West Bank and Gaza holdings were always considered illegally occupied. You cannot say it leaves Israel with less. Israel never officially had them. East Jerusalem is illegally annexed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Genuine question--how is 100+ nations officially recognizing Palestine as a state different than the UN doing the same for Israel in 1948? I see so much disdain for latter, with people saying that UN had no right to make that declaration, but the same people seem to be praising the former. In both cases you have a population living in these places saying they should have the right for self-determination and self-governance, and that the land belongs to them and they want to the world to recognize that. Plus, in both cases, that recognition of soverignity leaves another group pushed out or with less, and with no say about it. So why is the announcement from earlier this week a positive but the 1948 decision unacceptable?

Bingo.

The Palestinian advocates accuse Israel of hypocrisy (justifiably in certain cases), but are equally hypocritical when it comes to the UN resolutions.

Ridiculous.

The West Bank and Gaza holdings were always considered illegally occupied. You cannot say it leaves Israel with less. Israel never officially had them. East Jerusalem is illegally annexed.

So even if you take that part of it away, even if you say that Israel doesn't end up with less, it still doesn't change the fundamental question. Why is it a positive for the nations of the world to recognize Palestine as a state now but a negative to recognize Israel in 1948? Why is it different?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Genuine question--how is 100+ nations officially recognizing Palestine as a state different than the UN doing the same for Israel in 1948? I see so much disdain for latter, with people saying that UN had no right to make that declaration, but the same people seem to be praising the former. In both cases you have a population living in these places saying they should have the right for self-determination and self-governance, and that the land belongs to them and they want to the world to recognize that. Plus, in both cases, that recognition of soverignity leaves another group pushed out or with less, and with no say about it. So why is the announcement from earlier this week a positive but the 1948 decision unacceptable?

Bingo.

The Palestinian advocates accuse Israel of hypocrisy (justifiably in certain cases), but are equally hypocritical when it comes to the UN resolutions.

Ridiculous.

The West Bank and Gaza holdings were always considered illegally occupied. You cannot say it leaves Israel with less. Israel never officially had them. East Jerusalem is illegally annexed.

So even if you take that part of it away, even if you say that Israel doesn't end up with less, it still doesn't change the fundamental question. Why is it a positive for the nations of the world to recognize Palestine as a state now but a negative to recognize Israel in 1948? Why is it different?

Because the Palestinians are now living in an apartheid state, their homes are being stolen and they are oppressed. This is a direct result of Israel existence. So it is right to recognize a Palestinian state and not recognize Israel because without Israel creation the Palestinians would not be in this situation.