Why is it considered pretentious for non-MDs who have doctorates to use their title?

[Anonymous]

This, as with everything, is extremely context specific. My spouse has an engineering PhD. He doesn't use it socially but when he teaches classes and gives talks, they introduce him as Dr [name]. But of course no one's going to think the guy giving a talk on battery systems is a MD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about psychologists? Psychologists have PhDs, work in healthcare, diagnose, bill to medical insurance, etc. They use Dr. when being addressed with title + last name. I think this makes sense. Though many use their first name even professionally.

I have a friend who is a psychologist who has people call her this. I just shake my head internally.

Probably trying to distinguish herself from the many counselors who are not serious/well trained (see Life Coaches).

I think psychologists is one of them that makes the most sense if they're clinical and seeing patients. Besides everything the first PP said, psychologists need to set boundaries with people they're seeing, so "just call me Jenny!" Is kind of inappropriate.

I work in a large non-medical office setting where we have a psychologist on staff who does do clinical work. She refers to herself as “Doc <first name>” consistently, even with people she is not treating directly - introduces herself like that to people she doesn’t know, leaves voice messages, talks about herself in the third person, etc. This is in a place where everyone is otherwise informal and goes by just their first name. It rubs me the wrong way and several people were confused and thought she was a primary care doctor or psychiatrist when I asked them out of curiosity. I do agree it’s ok for a psychologist to go by Dr when speaking with patients in a fully clinical setting.

maybe she doesn't feel she otherwise gets the level of respect she shuold or that she isn't considered on-par with her colleagues. I wuold personally tink of her as more qualified for certain work than a psychiatrist, and i would love to know she has a PhD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Semi-related but here's a fun story. I'm a female physician and I had to put a piece of tape over the first name on my badge. Our practice environment is a zoo so at the end of every encounter I say "glad you came in, we'll take good care of you. As a reminder I'm Dr. XXX". To a person, patients (mostly men) would *physically reach out to grasp my badge*, which is at boob level, natch, and say, "thanks Larla!".

For years it didn't bother me, until it did. We're in a professional environment, not a cocktail party, Bob. I address patients by their last names. Seems reasonable to expect that same.

And no I never use my professional title outside of work, because that's weird and lame. But in the work environment, yes.

And no this doesn't happen to my male colleagues.

Why did you put a tape over your name?
I tihnk the bolded part matters. I find it annoying when an MD comes in, says "I'm Dr. Smith, nice to meet you Jane." Choose one or the other for both yourself and me,

Im a physician and want my doctor to call me by my first name--I want the safety of being just a patient who is there for medical solutions. With that being said I ask patients how they prefer being called--most prefer first name due to probably the same reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im an MD, I only allow my patients to call me Dr.--it creates boundaries that are there to protect both of us and to define the relationship. I want to barf when all these school educators go by doctor.

Good for you. Hope you feel better. My internist has told me to call her by her first name. Relating to her on a first name basis has nothing to do with boundaries or my respect for her! She also gave me her cell phone number which I only use if I have an emergency. Our boundaries are clear.

I'm not a doctor, but I am the child of three doctors (one step). I would encourage posters to not view themselves as the only use case when thinking about this. 99% of my parents patients are like you, but there are people who are unpredictable, who eschew boundaries and who act inappropriately. Who approach doctors in grocery stores when they are with their families, who bombard their phones. Certain types of doctors are more prone to these type of situations than others due to the nature of what they are treating.

While its great you have such a friendly relationship with your doctor you should know that many doctors who have firmer and more stringent boundaries in place do so because of experiences they have had with patients who do not respect clear boundaries. A doctor doesn't know if you're the 99 or the 1 before they start talking to you. And 1% can add up to a lot of people when you've been practicing for decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work in healthcare and MDs/DOs are some of the most deranged, egotistical people in the entire world.

My relative is an MD and addressed their Christmas cards with “Dr.”

Talk about lame.

I have never seen an MD go by doctor in non patient settings unless they were born before 1955

[Anonymous]

What do you think of a chiropractor who switched to teaching middle school and refers to themselves as Dr. X?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Semi-related but here's a fun story. I'm a female physician and I had to put a piece of tape over the first name on my badge. Our practice environment is a zoo so at the end of every encounter I say "glad you came in, we'll take good care of you. As a reminder I'm Dr. XXX". To a person, patients (mostly men) would *physically reach out to grasp my badge*, which is at boob level, natch, and say, "thanks Larla!".

For years it didn't bother me, until it did. We're in a professional environment, not a cocktail party, Bob. I address patients by their last names. Seems reasonable to expect that same.

And no I never use my professional title outside of work, because that's weird and lame. But in the work environment, yes.

And no this doesn't happen to my male colleagues.

Why did you put a tape over your name?
I tihnk the bolded part matters. I find it annoying when an MD comes in, says "I'm Dr. Smith, nice to meet you Jane." Choose one or the other for both yourself and me,

I did, and do. I address patients by their last names. I introduce myself by my last name. We proceed accordingly.

I put tape over my first name because male patients insist on using it, rather than my last name, by which I introduce myself, while also using their last name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Semi-related but here's a fun story. I'm a female physician and I had to put a piece of tape over the first name on my badge. Our practice environment is a zoo so at the end of every encounter I say "glad you came in, we'll take good care of you. As a reminder I'm Dr. XXX". To a person, patients (mostly men) would *physically reach out to grasp my badge*, which is at boob level, natch, and say, "thanks Larla!".

For years it didn't bother me, until it did. We're in a professional environment, not a cocktail party, Bob. I address patients by their last names. Seems reasonable to expect that same.

And no I never use my professional title outside of work, because that's weird and lame. But in the work environment, yes.

And no this doesn't happen to my male colleagues.

Why did you put a tape over your name?
I tihnk the bolded part matters. I find it annoying when an MD comes in, says "I'm Dr. Smith, nice to meet you Jane." Choose one or the other for both yourself and me,

I did, and do. I address patients by their last names. I introduce myself by my last name. We proceed accordingly.

I put tape over my first name because male patients insist on using it, rather than my last name, by which I introduce myself, while also using their last name.

Yes, I understand/understood that you call patients by their last names, and appreciate that you do.
Many doctors don't, which may be why people are calling you by your first name.
But that's mostly men... not suprising. Men aren't as accusomted as women are to being belittled in a workplace and can't really handle the idea that someone may outrank them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because if you introduce yourself as Dr, 99 percent of people will assume you are a medical doctor. And when they learn you are throwing around the dr suffix when all you have is a little extra studying of "education" or "social work" it comes across as pathetic and pretentious.

Doctor has been a title for non-physicians for centuries, longer and more universally than it is used for medical doctors, so that seems like a pretty stupid assumption to make.

Language evolves. PP is right this is why it is seen as obnoxious. You don't have to agree with it but this is the reason other people think it is obnoxious. It feels in some ways like the person is trying to cutely get one over on you.

If you were secure in yourself, another person’s earned professional title would have no impact on you.

It's not an earned professional title. It's an academic title.

If someone wants to use it in an every day setting, that's fine. Just know that people think it's silly.

The OP stated that no one but MDs can call themselves "Dr.". That is untrue.

Now other PPs are going on about people using "Dr." in casual contexts. That would be pretentious for anyone, including MDs. That is not specific to any profession. I think that is widely agreed upon. But some PPs are going on about people other than MDs never using "Dr.", even in professional contexts, and that is nonsense. in the workplace, referring to any Ph.D., MD etc as Dr. So-and-so had been normal and expected as long as I've been alive. I would do so unless I was on a first-name basis with the person, in the same way I might call someone Mr. or Mrs. when I don't know them personally.

I work with many, many Ph.D.s. When they give a professional talk, they will be introduced as and addressed as Dr. So-and-so and no one bats an eye. This is expected and typical. They earned that title by earning their degree.

I still think many people going on about this on this thread have inferiority complexes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because if you introduce yourself as Dr, 99 percent of people will assume you are a medical doctor. And when they learn you are throwing around the dr suffix when all you have is a little extra studying of "education" or "social work" it comes across as pathetic and pretentious.

Doctor has been a title for non-physicians for centuries, longer and more universally than it is used for medical doctors, so that seems like a pretty stupid assumption to make.

Language evolves. PP is right this is why it is seen as obnoxious. You don't have to agree with it but this is the reason other people think it is obnoxious. It feels in some ways like the person is trying to cutely get one over on you.

If you were secure in yourself, another person’s earned professional title would have no impact on you.

It's not an earned professional title. It's an academic title.

If someone wants to use it in an every day setting, that's fine. Just know that people think it's silly.

The OP stated that no one but MDs can call themselves "Dr.". That is untrue.

Now other PPs are going on about people using "Dr." in casual contexts. That would be pretentious for anyone, including MDs. That is not specific to any profession. I think that is widely agreed upon. But some PPs are going on about people other than MDs never using "Dr.", even in professional contexts, and that is nonsense. in the workplace, referring to any Ph.D., MD etc as Dr. So-and-so had been normal and expected as long as I've been alive. I would do so unless I was on a first-name basis with the person, in the same way I might call someone Mr. or Mrs. when I don't know them personally.

I work with many, many Ph.D.s. When they give a professional talk, they will be introduced as and addressed as Dr. So-and-so and no one bats an eye. This is expected and typical. They earned that title by earning their degree.

I still think many people going on about this on this thread have inferiority complexes.

Sorry, meant to say first response to OP was saying no one but MDs can be called doctor. OP was asking why people believe this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a lawyer.

That makes me a “doctor” too.

(technically)

oh god i hate it when lawyers make this argument. you have a termnial degree. big whoop.

...that required no original research.

[Anonymous]

I’m a physician. I think the term doctor should be used for anyone who earns the doctorate in the right context. I don’t know any physicians who use it socially. When I go to classes for other topics I don’t introduce myself as Dr. Larla.

I also don’t like when people try to address me by my first name in a medical setting. It almost always only happens to women doctors, and is incredibly disrespectful to the number of years of training in which we were working incredibly long hours, dealing with lots of death, sadness, illnesses, exams after exams. We earn the title doctor and we deserve to use it. I work with kids and I insist they use it (they can call me Dr Thomas, Dr Tommy, Dr T) just as I insist my staff to use the title in the office. And honestly as a woman, people will assume you’re a nurse if you don’t make it clear you are a doc.

[Anonymous]

Pp here! I do have an issue with this trend “DNPs” calling themselves doctors. They need to be sued. So many of my patients have had poor outcomes from these minimally trained “doctors” that I would never allow a family member to even entertain seeing one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because if you introduce yourself as Dr, 99 percent of people will assume you are a medical doctor. And when they learn you are throwing around the dr suffix when all you have is a little extra studying of "education" or "social work" it comes across as pathetic and pretentious.

it’s not a ‘little extra studying’!!! You are ignorant of the process to obtain a PhD. The average number of extra years to obtain a PhD is 6 and that’s after your bachelor’s. These people are experts in their chosen fields. They studied and studied and studied. They completed major comprehensive exams in their disciplines and passed. Then they embarked on some major new research project in their area of study and completed a dissertation. They had to present at major conferences and get their work approved in front of other leading academics in their field. They earned the title Doctor in their chosen field. Everyone should know that ‘Dr’ doesn’t just mean medical. If YOU don’t know this, then YOU need more education.

Yep, all of this. For what it’s worth I have a PhD (psychologist) and I only use the Dr term at work. Pretentious for a PhD OR an MD to use it outside of the work setting in my opinion!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a lawyer.

That makes me a “doctor” too.

(technically)

oh god i hate it when lawyers make this argument. you have a termnial degree. big whoop.

...that required no original research.

Actually, you do learn research in law school.