ACLU sues Jackson-Reed

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

The version of the video that I watched, which is the version the students want to present at school, does not do that. So it is actually you who is lying and I invite everyone to view the film themselves and confirm which of us is being truthful.

I am not sure why you are comparing books that are assigned reading to a film being presented as a voluntary activity during non-classroom hours. No students are being assigned to watch the video.

Directly from the transcript - claims thay the Hamas charter calling for the slaughter of the Jews is meaningless and just exploited for propaganda:

“And Luntz goes onto say that one of the most effective ways to make the conflict about terrorism is to refer to an obscure political document written in 1988 by a small group of ideologues, the Hamas Charter, that calls for the destruction of Israel. Even though the Hamas leadership effectively disowned the Charter a long time ago, it’s been PR gold for Israel. Luntz’s research discovered that when Americans hear the words of the Charter, Israel goes from bully to victim, and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians dissipates. So, he says, Don’t just quote it, read it -- out loud -- again and again. And his advice has been taken up – often hysterically – by Israel’s advocates.”

https://www.mediaed.org/transcripts/The-Occupation-Of-The-American-Mind-Transcript.pdf

Just *imagine* if anything CLOSE to that was said about any other ethnic/racial group.

I just confirmed that that section is not included in the abridged version that the students want to present. You can go to 16:46 of the video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

to conform for yourself. It would be really helpful for this discussion if you would just watch the video yourself so that I would not have to keep correcting your misinformation.

I will also note, however, that the advice that Luntz is quoted as offering as been followed assiduously. You will not find a single discussion here about Hamas in which its charter is not brought up. So, I am not sure why you find this objectionable.

Oh so you’re doubling down on the “anti-semitism is not real - it’s just hasbara propaganda.” Nice.

dp: I think you are looking for gotchas rather than acknowledging the complexities of the situation.

No, I’m not. The purpose of the documentary is to make students believe that Israel has no legitimate security concerns, Hamas is not antisemitic, and it’s all a massive Israeli mind-control effort to take over America.

It's a little insulting to J-R students tobthink that a documentary could "make" students believe such simplistic hyperbole.

The documentary having that much power would--ironically enough--be some serious mind-control.

My point is that is the propaganda goal of the film. The film is as much propaganda as it claims to be dispelling it.

This is a valid criticism. Show up at the showing and make this point. That would be helpful to the students.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

The version of the video that I watched, which is the version the students want to present at school, does not do that. So it is actually you who is lying and I invite everyone to view the film themselves and confirm which of us is being truthful.

I am not sure why you are comparing books that are assigned reading to a film being presented as a voluntary activity during non-classroom hours. No students are being assigned to watch the video.

Directly from the transcript - claims thay the Hamas charter calling for the slaughter of the Jews is meaningless and just exploited for propaganda:

“And Luntz goes onto say that one of the most effective ways to make the conflict about terrorism is to refer to an obscure political document written in 1988 by a small group of ideologues, the Hamas Charter, that calls for the destruction of Israel. Even though the Hamas leadership effectively disowned the Charter a long time ago, it’s been PR gold for Israel. Luntz’s research discovered that when Americans hear the words of the Charter, Israel goes from bully to victim, and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians dissipates. So, he says, Don’t just quote it, read it -- out loud -- again and again. And his advice has been taken up – often hysterically – by Israel’s advocates.”

https://www.mediaed.org/transcripts/The-Occupation-Of-The-American-Mind-Transcript.pdf

Just *imagine* if anything CLOSE to that was said about any other ethnic/racial group.

I just confirmed that that section is not included in the abridged version that the students want to present. You can go to 16:46 of the video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

to conform for yourself. It would be really helpful for this discussion if you would just watch the video yourself so that I would not have to keep correcting your misinformation.

I will also note, however, that the advice that Luntz is quoted as offering as been followed assiduously. You will not find a single discussion here about Hamas in which its charter is not brought up. So, I am not sure why you find this objectionable.

Oh so you’re doubling down on the “anti-semitism is not real - it’s just hasbara propaganda.” Nice.

dp: I think you are looking for gotchas rather than acknowledging the complexities of the situation.

No, I’m not. The purpose of the documentary is to make students believe that Israel has no legitimate security concerns, Hamas is not antisemitic, and it’s all a massive Israeli mind-control effort to take over America.

This is completely inaccurate and, unfortunately, very typical of Israel's supporters. The poster is either outright lying or has not viewed the video.

I will say for the third time that the film explicitly denies that there is any brainwashing. The video does not suggest that Israel does not have legitimate security concerns, but rather argues that those concerns are frequently exaggerated and put above all other concerns (such as the security concerns of Palestinians). The video hardly discusses Hamas because Hamas is not the point of the video. Rather, the focus of the video is on pro-Israel efforts to influence American thinking about the conflict. We are seeing those efforts in this very thread, following the script outlined in the video almost perfectly.

The video is an effective illustration of how the narrative about the Israel-Palestine conflict is influenced. Because of that effectiveness, there is an effort to suppress it. The tactic used to suppress it is not legitimate criticism (of which some could certainly be made) but rather the tried and true tactic of labeling anything with which the pro-Israel crowd is uncomfortable as anti-Semitic.

Absolutely anything I say you’ll just accuse me of being hasbara.

That is pretty funny considering how many posts I've replied to without accusing anyone of that. However, if you continue to spread false information, I will point it out. The video could certainly be criticized, but for some reason its opponents insist on spreading false information about it.

The false information that it is pro-Hamas and denies that Hamas is anti-semitic?

Neither of these things is true about the video and this is just your attempt to sidetrack the discussion. Hamas is not the focus of the video which you would know if you bothered to watch it. Hamas mostly shows up when its terrorist attacks are documented. The focus of the video is on the effort to control the narrative of the conflict in the US. One strategy explained in the video is to label legitimate criticism as anti-Semitism. You are illustrating the point of the video very effectively.

lol Jeff. the whole POINT of the documentary is to dispute that Hamas is a legitimate threat, up to and including its expressly anti-semitic charter. which per you is just “Israeli propaganda” and not real.

look, all you’re doing is making clear this is an extremely politicized “documentary” (with a narrator known to wear Nazi uniforms) - reinforcing that JR admins are 100% right to be very deliberate about showing it.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

The version of the video that I watched, which is the version the students want to present at school, does not do that. So it is actually you who is lying and I invite everyone to view the film themselves and confirm which of us is being truthful.

I am not sure why you are comparing books that are assigned reading to a film being presented as a voluntary activity during non-classroom hours. No students are being assigned to watch the video.

Directly from the transcript - claims thay the Hamas charter calling for the slaughter of the Jews is meaningless and just exploited for propaganda:

“And Luntz goes onto say that one of the most effective ways to make the conflict about terrorism is to refer to an obscure political document written in 1988 by a small group of ideologues, the Hamas Charter, that calls for the destruction of Israel. Even though the Hamas leadership effectively disowned the Charter a long time ago, it’s been PR gold for Israel. Luntz’s research discovered that when Americans hear the words of the Charter, Israel goes from bully to victim, and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians dissipates. So, he says, Don’t just quote it, read it -- out loud -- again and again. And his advice has been taken up – often hysterically – by Israel’s advocates.”

https://www.mediaed.org/transcripts/The-Occupation-Of-The-American-Mind-Transcript.pdf

Just *imagine* if anything CLOSE to that was said about any other ethnic/racial group.

I just confirmed that that section is not included in the abridged version that the students want to present. You can go to 16:46 of the video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

to conform for yourself. It would be really helpful for this discussion if you would just watch the video yourself so that I would not have to keep correcting your misinformation.

I will also note, however, that the advice that Luntz is quoted as offering as been followed assiduously. You will not find a single discussion here about Hamas in which its charter is not brought up. So, I am not sure why you find this objectionable.

Oh so you’re doubling down on the “anti-semitism is not real - it’s just hasbara propaganda.” Nice.

dp: I think you are looking for gotchas rather than acknowledging the complexities of the situation.

No, I’m not. The purpose of the documentary is to make students believe that Israel has no legitimate security concerns, Hamas is not antisemitic, and it’s all a massive Israeli mind-control effort to take over America.

This is completely inaccurate and, unfortunately, very typical of Israel's supporters. The poster is either outright lying or has not viewed the video.

I will say for the third time that the film explicitly denies that there is any brainwashing. The video does not suggest that Israel does not have legitimate security concerns, but rather argues that those concerns are frequently exaggerated and put above all other concerns (such as the security concerns of Palestinians). The video hardly discusses Hamas because Hamas is not the point of the video. Rather, the focus of the video is on pro-Israel efforts to influence American thinking about the conflict. We are seeing those efforts in this very thread, following the script outlined in the video almost perfectly.

The video is an effective illustration of how the narrative about the Israel-Palestine conflict is influenced. Because of that effectiveness, there is an effort to suppress it. The tactic used to suppress it is not legitimate criticism (of which some could certainly be made) but rather the tried and true tactic of labeling anything with which the pro-Israel crowd is uncomfortable as anti-Semitic.

Absolutely anything I say you’ll just accuse me of being hasbara.

That is pretty funny considering how many posts I've replied to without accusing anyone of that. However, if you continue to spread false information, I will point it out. The video could certainly be criticized, but for some reason its opponents insist on spreading false information about it.

The false information that it is pro-Hamas and denies that Hamas is anti-semitic?

Neither of these things is true about the video and this is just your attempt to sidetrack the discussion. Hamas is not the focus of the video which you would know if you bothered to watch it. Hamas mostly shows up when its terrorist attacks are documented. The focus of the video is on the effort to control the narrative of the conflict in the US. One strategy explained in the video is to label legitimate criticism as anti-Semitism. You are illustrating the point of the video very effectively.

lol Jeff. the whole POINT of the documentary is to dispute that Hamas is a legitimate threat, up to and including its expressly anti-semitic charter. which per you is just “Israeli propaganda” and not real.

look, all you’re doing is making clear this is an extremely politicized “documentary” (with a narrator known to wear Nazi uniforms) - reinforcing that JR admins are 100% right to be very deliberate about showing it.

If you are not capable of having a legitimate discussion, I will begin removing your posts. Your constant lies and misrepresentations are only succeeding in driving this discussion off-topic, which I assume is your goal. Unfortunately for you, I have the ability to prevent it.

Hamas has very little to do with the video. You clearly have not watched it. If you want to discuss Hamas' charter, please start another thread. There was no discussion one way or another about the charter in the video. I did not describe anything as "Israeli propaganda". Why are you lying in this way?

The school administration has had a chance to review the film. It is time to allow it to be shown. It take 50 minutes to watch the video. Everyone should do it because that will make it clear that the video is only controversial because critics such as yourself have chosen to lie and spread misinformation about it.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

The version of the video that I watched, which is the version the students want to present at school, does not do that. So it is actually you who is lying and I invite everyone to view the film themselves and confirm which of us is being truthful.

I am not sure why you are comparing books that are assigned reading to a film being presented as a voluntary activity during non-classroom hours. No students are being assigned to watch the video.

Directly from the transcript - claims thay the Hamas charter calling for the slaughter of the Jews is meaningless and just exploited for propaganda:

“And Luntz goes onto say that one of the most effective ways to make the conflict about terrorism is to refer to an obscure political document written in 1988 by a small group of ideologues, the Hamas Charter, that calls for the destruction of Israel. Even though the Hamas leadership effectively disowned the Charter a long time ago, it’s been PR gold for Israel. Luntz’s research discovered that when Americans hear the words of the Charter, Israel goes from bully to victim, and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians dissipates. So, he says, Don’t just quote it, read it -- out loud -- again and again. And his advice has been taken up – often hysterically – by Israel’s advocates.”

https://www.mediaed.org/transcripts/The-Occupation-Of-The-American-Mind-Transcript.pdf

Just *imagine* if anything CLOSE to that was said about any other ethnic/racial group.

I just confirmed that that section is not included in the abridged version that the students want to present. You can go to 16:46 of the video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

to conform for yourself. It would be really helpful for this discussion if you would just watch the video yourself so that I would not have to keep correcting your misinformation.

I will also note, however, that the advice that Luntz is quoted as offering as been followed assiduously. You will not find a single discussion here about Hamas in which its charter is not brought up. So, I am not sure why you find this objectionable.

Oh so you’re doubling down on the “anti-semitism is not real - it’s just hasbara propaganda.” Nice.

dp: I think you are looking for gotchas rather than acknowledging the complexities of the situation.

No, I’m not. The purpose of the documentary is to make students believe that Israel has no legitimate security concerns, Hamas is not antisemitic, and it’s all a massive Israeli mind-control effort to take over America.

This is completely inaccurate and, unfortunately, very typical of Israel's supporters.

You're arguing with what appears to be one or two people here. This feels like an unnecessary and unkind generalization.

Frankly I don't understand why you keep going back and forth with this person. What else is there to be said at this point? This thread is depressing.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

The version of the video that I watched, which is the version the students want to present at school, does not do that. So it is actually you who is lying and I invite everyone to view the film themselves and confirm which of us is being truthful.

I am not sure why you are comparing books that are assigned reading to a film being presented as a voluntary activity during non-classroom hours. No students are being assigned to watch the video.

Directly from the transcript - claims thay the Hamas charter calling for the slaughter of the Jews is meaningless and just exploited for propaganda:

“And Luntz goes onto say that one of the most effective ways to make the conflict about terrorism is to refer to an obscure political document written in 1988 by a small group of ideologues, the Hamas Charter, that calls for the destruction of Israel. Even though the Hamas leadership effectively disowned the Charter a long time ago, it’s been PR gold for Israel. Luntz’s research discovered that when Americans hear the words of the Charter, Israel goes from bully to victim, and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians dissipates. So, he says, Don’t just quote it, read it -- out loud -- again and again. And his advice has been taken up – often hysterically – by Israel’s advocates.”

https://www.mediaed.org/transcripts/The-Occupation-Of-The-American-Mind-Transcript.pdf

Just *imagine* if anything CLOSE to that was said about any other ethnic/racial group.

I just confirmed that that section is not included in the abridged version that the students want to present. You can go to 16:46 of the video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

to conform for yourself. It would be really helpful for this discussion if you would just watch the video yourself so that I would not have to keep correcting your misinformation.

I will also note, however, that the advice that Luntz is quoted as offering as been followed assiduously. You will not find a single discussion here about Hamas in which its charter is not brought up. So, I am not sure why you find this objectionable.

Oh so you’re doubling down on the “anti-semitism is not real - it’s just hasbara propaganda.” Nice.

dp: I think you are looking for gotchas rather than acknowledging the complexities of the situation.

No, I’m not. The purpose of the documentary is to make students believe that Israel has no legitimate security concerns, Hamas is not antisemitic, and it’s all a massive Israeli mind-control effort to take over America.

This is completely inaccurate and, unfortunately, very typical of Israel's supporters.

You're arguing with what appears to be one or two people here. This feels like an unnecessary and unkind generalization.

Frankly I don't understand why you keep going back and forth with this person. What else is there to be said at this point? This thread is depressing.

I think it is important to stand up for high school kids who are being falsely accused of disseminating anti-Semitic and pro-terrorist information. I'm surprised that doing so would make me the bad guy.

[Anonymous]

I bet you no one at the school bothered to watch it before banning it. Typical knee jerk reaction.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

The version of the video that I watched, which is the version the students want to present at school, does not do that. So it is actually you who is lying and I invite everyone to view the film themselves and confirm which of us is being truthful.

I am not sure why you are comparing books that are assigned reading to a film being presented as a voluntary activity during non-classroom hours. No students are being assigned to watch the video.

Directly from the transcript - claims thay the Hamas charter calling for the slaughter of the Jews is meaningless and just exploited for propaganda:

“And Luntz goes onto say that one of the most effective ways to make the conflict about terrorism is to refer to an obscure political document written in 1988 by a small group of ideologues, the Hamas Charter, that calls for the destruction of Israel. Even though the Hamas leadership effectively disowned the Charter a long time ago, it’s been PR gold for Israel. Luntz’s research discovered that when Americans hear the words of the Charter, Israel goes from bully to victim, and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians dissipates. So, he says, Don’t just quote it, read it -- out loud -- again and again. And his advice has been taken up – often hysterically – by Israel’s advocates.”

https://www.mediaed.org/transcripts/The-Occupation-Of-The-American-Mind-Transcript.pdf

Just *imagine* if anything CLOSE to that was said about any other ethnic/racial group.

I just confirmed that that section is not included in the abridged version that the students want to present. You can go to 16:46 of the video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

to conform for yourself. It would be really helpful for this discussion if you would just watch the video yourself so that I would not have to keep correcting your misinformation.

I will also note, however, that the advice that Luntz is quoted as offering as been followed assiduously. You will not find a single discussion here about Hamas in which its charter is not brought up. So, I am not sure why you find this objectionable.

Oh so you’re doubling down on the “anti-semitism is not real - it’s just hasbara propaganda.” Nice.

dp: I think you are looking for gotchas rather than acknowledging the complexities of the situation.

No, I’m not. The purpose of the documentary is to make students believe that Israel has no legitimate security concerns, Hamas is not antisemitic, and it’s all a massive Israeli mind-control effort to take over America.

This is completely inaccurate and, unfortunately, very typical of Israel's supporters.

You're arguing with what appears to be one or two people here. This feels like an unnecessary and unkind generalization.

Frankly I don't understand why you keep going back and forth with this person. What else is there to be said at this point? This thread is depressing.

I think it is important to stand up for high school kids who are being falsely accused of disseminating anti-Semitic and pro-terrorist information. I'm surprised that doing so would make me the bad guy.

I didn't say you were the bad guy for standing up for the students. I have no issue with that whatsoever.

But at this point I don't see how the continued sparring with this one person serves that goal either.

[Anonymous]

ACLU probably wouldn’t take the lawsuit if there wasn’t some merit to it. People need to stop banning everything that makes them uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

Good suggestion to watch the film.
I will try to do it this week. Everyone and their mother is commenting on here like they are experts without having watched the film

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good suggestion to watch the film.
I will try to do it this week. Everyone and their mother is commenting on here like they are experts without having watched the film

I watched it.

The site admin is right, and most of the things said about the film (e.g., it's extremely antisemitic) simply aren't true.

[Anonymous]

Things are being labelled anti-semitic way too often. But that makes sense given the way out of proportion, devasting rise of calling every single thing racist over the past few years. Stop labelling and let the conversations flow so that we can actually try to find agreement. Calling everything "racist" has destroyed a generation already. Lets stop with all of it.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

The version of the video that I watched, which is the version the students want to present at school, does not do that. So it is actually you who is lying and I invite everyone to view the film themselves and confirm which of us is being truthful.

I am not sure why you are comparing books that are assigned reading to a film being presented as a voluntary activity during non-classroom hours. No students are being assigned to watch the video.

Directly from the transcript - claims thay the Hamas charter calling for the slaughter of the Jews is meaningless and just exploited for propaganda:

“And Luntz goes onto say that one of the most effective ways to make the conflict about terrorism is to refer to an obscure political document written in 1988 by a small group of ideologues, the Hamas Charter, that calls for the destruction of Israel. Even though the Hamas leadership effectively disowned the Charter a long time ago, it’s been PR gold for Israel. Luntz’s research discovered that when Americans hear the words of the Charter, Israel goes from bully to victim, and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians dissipates. So, he says, Don’t just quote it, read it -- out loud -- again and again. And his advice has been taken up – often hysterically – by Israel’s advocates.”

https://www.mediaed.org/transcripts/The-Occupation-Of-The-American-Mind-Transcript.pdf

Just *imagine* if anything CLOSE to that was said about any other ethnic/racial group.

I just confirmed that that section is not included in the abridged version that the students want to present. You can go to 16:46 of the video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

to conform for yourself. It would be really helpful for this discussion if you would just watch the video yourself so that I would not have to keep correcting your misinformation.

I will also note, however, that the advice that Luntz is quoted as offering as been followed assiduously. You will not find a single discussion here about Hamas in which its charter is not brought up. So, I am not sure why you find this objectionable.

Oh so you’re doubling down on the “anti-semitism is not real - it’s just hasbara propaganda.” Nice.

dp: I think you are looking for gotchas rather than acknowledging the complexities of the situation.

No, I’m not. The purpose of the documentary is to make students believe that Israel has no legitimate security concerns, Hamas is not antisemitic, and it’s all a massive Israeli mind-control effort to take over America.

This is completely inaccurate and, unfortunately, very typical of Israel's supporters. The poster is either outright lying or has not viewed the video.

I will say for the third time that the film explicitly denies that there is any brainwashing. The video does not suggest that Israel does not have legitimate security concerns, but rather argues that those concerns are frequently exaggerated and put above all other concerns (such as the security concerns of Palestinians). The video hardly discusses Hamas because Hamas is not the point of the video. Rather, the focus of the video is on pro-Israel efforts to influence American thinking about the conflict. We are seeing those efforts in this very thread, following the script outlined in the video almost perfectly.

The video is an effective illustration of how the narrative about the Israel-Palestine conflict is influenced. Because of that effectiveness, there is an effort to suppress it. The tactic used to suppress it is not legitimate criticism (of which some could certainly be made) but rather the tried and true tactic of labeling anything with which the pro-Israel crowd is uncomfortable as anti-Semitic.

Absolutely anything I say you’ll just accuse me of being hasbara.

That is pretty funny considering how many posts I've replied to without accusing anyone of that. However, if you continue to spread false information, I will point it out. The video could certainly be criticized, but for some reason its opponents insist on spreading false information about it.

The false information that it is pro-Hamas and denies that Hamas is anti-semitic?

Neither of these things is true about the video and this is just your attempt to sidetrack the discussion. Hamas is not the focus of the video which you would know if you bothered to watch it. Hamas mostly shows up when its terrorist attacks are documented. The focus of the video is on the effort to control the narrative of the conflict in the US. One strategy explained in the video is to label legitimate criticism as anti-Semitism. You are illustrating the point of the video very effectively.

lol Jeff. the whole POINT of the documentary is to dispute that Hamas is a legitimate threat, up to and including its expressly anti-semitic charter. which per you is just “Israeli propaganda” and not real.

look, all you’re doing is making clear this is an extremely politicized “documentary” (with a narrator known to wear Nazi uniforms) - reinforcing that JR admins are 100% right to be very deliberate about showing it.

If you are not capable of having a legitimate discussion, I will begin removing your posts. Your constant lies and misrepresentations are only succeeding in driving this discussion off-topic, which I assume is your goal. Unfortunately for you, I have the ability to prevent it.

Hamas has very little to do with the video. You clearly have not watched it. If you want to discuss Hamas' charter, please start another thread. There was no discussion one way or another about the charter in the video. I did not describe anything as "Israeli propaganda". Why are you lying in this way?

The school administration has had a chance to review the film. It is time to allow it to be shown. It take 50 minutes to watch the video. Everyone should do it because that will make it clear that the video is only controversial because critics such as yourself have chosen to lie and spread misinformation about it.

NP.

Jeff, the know-it-all tone of your replies on this as "statements of fact" is off putting. It is your board and you have a right to ban people and cull responses as you see fit, but if you are truly open to discussion then I would ask you to consider who made you the arbiter of what is and is not antisemitic or offensive. People's world views and experiences differ greatly and those in turn inform their views on what may or may not be offensive to them. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it's ironic hypocritical for your t declare the film not offensive and threaten to remove posts from anyone who disagrees in the name of "legitimate discussion". You don't think the film is offensive or antisemitic or pro-Hamas; you are entitled to your opinion. But why can't reasonable people disagree with you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

The version of the video that I watched, which is the version the students want to present at school, does not do that. So it is actually you who is lying and I invite everyone to view the film themselves and confirm which of us is being truthful.

I am not sure why you are comparing books that are assigned reading to a film being presented as a voluntary activity during non-classroom hours. No students are being assigned to watch the video.

Directly from the transcript - claims thay the Hamas charter calling for the slaughter of the Jews is meaningless and just exploited for propaganda:

“And Luntz goes onto say that one of the most effective ways to make the conflict about terrorism is to refer to an obscure political document written in 1988 by a small group of ideologues, the Hamas Charter, that calls for the destruction of Israel. Even though the Hamas leadership effectively disowned the Charter a long time ago, it’s been PR gold for Israel. Luntz’s research discovered that when Americans hear the words of the Charter, Israel goes from bully to victim, and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians dissipates. So, he says, Don’t just quote it, read it -- out loud -- again and again. And his advice has been taken up – often hysterically – by Israel’s advocates.”

https://www.mediaed.org/transcripts/The-Occupation-Of-The-American-Mind-Transcript.pdf

Just *imagine* if anything CLOSE to that was said about any other ethnic/racial group.

I just confirmed that that section is not included in the abridged version that the students want to present. You can go to 16:46 of the video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

to conform for yourself. It would be really helpful for this discussion if you would just watch the video yourself so that I would not have to keep correcting your misinformation.

I will also note, however, that the advice that Luntz is quoted as offering as been followed assiduously. You will not find a single discussion here about Hamas in which its charter is not brought up. So, I am not sure why you find this objectionable.

Oh so you’re doubling down on the “anti-semitism is not real - it’s just hasbara propaganda.” Nice.

dp: I think you are looking for gotchas rather than acknowledging the complexities of the situation.

No, I’m not. The purpose of the documentary is to make students believe that Israel has no legitimate security concerns, Hamas is not antisemitic, and it’s all a massive Israeli mind-control effort to take over America.

This is completely inaccurate and, unfortunately, very typical of Israel's supporters. The poster is either outright lying or has not viewed the video.

I will say for the third time that the film explicitly denies that there is any brainwashing. The video does not suggest that Israel does not have legitimate security concerns, but rather argues that those concerns are frequently exaggerated and put above all other concerns (such as the security concerns of Palestinians). The video hardly discusses Hamas because Hamas is not the point of the video. Rather, the focus of the video is on pro-Israel efforts to influence American thinking about the conflict. We are seeing those efforts in this very thread, following the script outlined in the video almost perfectly.

The video is an effective illustration of how the narrative about the Israel-Palestine conflict is influenced. Because of that effectiveness, there is an effort to suppress it. The tactic used to suppress it is not legitimate criticism (of which some could certainly be made) but rather the tried and true tactic of labeling anything with which the pro-Israel crowd is uncomfortable as anti-Semitic.

Absolutely anything I say you’ll just accuse me of being hasbara.

That is pretty funny considering how many posts I've replied to without accusing anyone of that. However, if you continue to spread false information, I will point it out. The video could certainly be criticized, but for some reason its opponents insist on spreading false information about it.

The false information that it is pro-Hamas and denies that Hamas is anti-semitic?

Neither of these things is true about the video and this is just your attempt to sidetrack the discussion. Hamas is not the focus of the video which you would know if you bothered to watch it. Hamas mostly shows up when its terrorist attacks are documented. The focus of the video is on the effort to control the narrative of the conflict in the US. One strategy explained in the video is to label legitimate criticism as anti-Semitism. You are illustrating the point of the video very effectively.

lol Jeff. the whole POINT of the documentary is to dispute that Hamas is a legitimate threat, up to and including its expressly anti-semitic charter. which per you is just “Israeli propaganda” and not real.

look, all you’re doing is making clear this is an extremely politicized “documentary” (with a narrator known to wear Nazi uniforms) - reinforcing that JR admins are 100% right to be very deliberate about showing it.

If you are not capable of having a legitimate discussion, I will begin removing your posts. Your constant lies and misrepresentations are only succeeding in driving this discussion off-topic, which I assume is your goal. Unfortunately for you, I have the ability to prevent it.

Hamas has very little to do with the video. You clearly have not watched it. If you want to discuss Hamas' charter, please start another thread. There was no discussion one way or another about the charter in the video. I did not describe anything as "Israeli propaganda". Why are you lying in this way?

The school administration has had a chance to review the film. It is time to allow it to be shown. It take 50 minutes to watch the video. Everyone should do it because that will make it clear that the video is only controversial because critics such as yourself have chosen to lie and spread misinformation about it.

NP.

Jeff, the know-it-all tone of your replies on this as "statements of fact" is off putting. It is your board and you have a right to ban people and cull responses as you see fit, but if you are truly open to discussion then I would ask you to consider who made you the arbiter of what is and is not antisemitic or offensive. People's world views and experiences differ greatly and those in turn inform their views on what may or may not be offensive to them. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it's ironic hypocritical for your t declare the film not offensive and threaten to remove posts from anyone who disagrees in the name of "legitimate discussion". You don't think the film is offensive or antisemitic or pro-Hamas; you are entitled to your opinion. But why can't reasonable people disagree with you?

P.S. I happen to think it should be shown and a discussion had on the subject. But that's a separate issue from belittling or dismissing people who disagree with your views.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:NP.

Jeff, the know-it-all tone of your replies on this as "statements of fact" is off putting. It is your board and you have a right to ban people and cull responses as you see fit, but if you are truly open to discussion then I would ask you to consider who made you the arbiter of what is and is not antisemitic or offensive. People's world views and experiences differ greatly and those in turn inform their views on what may or may not be offensive to them. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it's ironic hypocritical for your t declare the film not offensive and threaten to remove posts from anyone who disagrees in the name of "legitimate discussion". You don't think the film is offensive or antisemitic or pro-Hamas; you are entitled to your opinion. But why can't reasonable people disagree with you?

Anyone is welcome to disagree with me and many posters do disagree with me all the time. The poster above is doing something very similar to trolling — attempting to disrupt the discussion with comments that have no connection to reality. For instance, the poster wrote:

"the whole POINT of the documentary is to dispute that Hamas is a legitimate threat".

Nobody who watched the video could reasonably come that that conclusion. The video was not about Hamas, it was not even about Gaza. The point of the video was to describe how the perception of the Israel-Palestine conflict is influenced in the US. Either this poster has not watched the video or is lying. In either case, her input is only serving to hijack the discussion.

I don't care if a random person thinks the video is anti-Semitic. They are free to think what they want. What I do care about is that random person having veto power that prevents others from viewing the video. According to the ACLU complaint:

On the evening of December 6, 2023, a parent who was present in the school removed one of the posters from the wall and complained to the school administration about the showing of the film. In response, Principal Brown cancelled the event and had the posters taken down.

I really don't see why, if we are trying to have a serious discussion, we should entertain posts that demonstrate no connection to reality. But, if you have watched the video and can articulate a reasonable argument that the video is anti-Semitic please do. So far, any such argument has been based on falsehoods. Not something that I think is false, but something that I can objectively prove is false such as a claim that the video contains content that it does not contain.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP.

Jeff, the know-it-all tone of your replies on this as "statements of fact" is off putting. It is your board and you have a right to ban people and cull responses as you see fit, but if you are truly open to discussion then I would ask you to consider who made you the arbiter of what is and is not antisemitic or offensive. People's world views and experiences differ greatly and those in turn inform their views on what may or may not be offensive to them. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it's ironic hypocritical for your t declare the film not offensive and threaten to remove posts from anyone who disagrees in the name of "legitimate discussion". You don't think the film is offensive or antisemitic or pro-Hamas; you are entitled to your opinion. But why can't reasonable people disagree with you?

Anyone is welcome to disagree with me and many posters do disagree with me all the time. The poster above is doing something very similar to trolling — attempting to disrupt the discussion with comments that have no connection to reality. For instance, the poster wrote:

"the whole POINT of the documentary is to dispute that Hamas is a legitimate threat".

Nobody who watched the video could reasonably come that that conclusion. The video was not about Hamas, it was not even about Gaza. The point of the video was to describe how the perception of the Israel-Palestine conflict is influenced in the US. Either this poster has not watched the video or is lying. In either case, her input is only serving to hijack the discussion.

I don't care if a random person thinks the video is anti-Semitic. They are free to think what they want. What I do care about is that random person having veto power that prevents others from viewing the video. According to the ACLU complaint:

On the evening of December 6, 2023, a parent who was present in the school removed one of the posters from the wall and complained to the school administration about the showing of the film. In response, Principal Brown cancelled the event and had the posters taken down.

I really don't see why, if we are trying to have a serious discussion, we should entertain posts that demonstrate no connection to reality. But, if you have watched the video and can articulate a reasonable argument that the video is anti-Semitic please do. So far, any such argument has been based on falsehoods. Not something that I think is false, but something that I can objectively prove is false such as a claim that the video contains content that it does not contain.

Jeff I read the transcript. Indeed the WHOLE POINT is to characterize Israels entire foreign policy/security position as propaganda that it has “occupied the american mind” with through crafty PR. in particular the part where the expressly anti-semitic Hamas charter is completely dismissed is extremely troubling to say the least. Apparently that part is not in the edited version but nobody has demonstrated which version will be shown. As well, it is narrated by a dude *currently known* to go around in Nazi uniforms in public.