What schools are better than the lower Ivies?

[Anonymous]

RISD

[Anonymous]

The upper Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:University of Maryland. - Proud Terp '02

Agreed. Best undergraduate experience I've ever had with smart peers who chose to graduate debt-free over fancy name schools. Anyone choosing the ivies over UMD in-state is delusional. Quality of education at UMD better than most ivies since they funnel resources to grad students. Proud Terp '94

UMD>Harvard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:University of Maryland. - Proud Terp '02

Agreed. Best undergraduate experience I've ever had with smart peers who chose to graduate debt-free over fancy name schools. Anyone choosing the ivies over UMD in-state is delusional. Quality of education at UMD better than most ivies since they funnel resources to grad students. Proud Terp '94

Curious...did you have more than one undergraduate experience? Maybe more accurately...the best and only undergraduate experience I've ever had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aside from Stanford, MIT, Duke, Caltech, which schools do you consider better than the "lower ivies" (Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell)?

In my mind, the major problem with Cornell is a lot of people apply to it only because it's an Ivy and then some of them go only because it's an Ivy and they didn't get into any other.

It's my family's legacy school and even though I chose to go to a different university, I think it's pathetic how some people talk it down. It did great things for my family (including a first gen, low income woman in the 1930s) and everyone who went there appreciated the rigorous and thoughtful education they got there. They were Pennsylvania and New York state residents so knew what they were getting into and actively chose the school as their first choice.

It's only a "lower Ivy" for people with crap priorities like "Ivy or bust". It is tiresome listening to smart but narrow-minded prestige seekers bringing up all the standard whines about the rigor, the location, the weather, the partly state-related nature of the university, etc. As well as the debunked excess suicide prevalence discussion.

It's a great school and it's a pity that the student body has become diluted by people who actually don't want to work hard and/or be there.

Whoever is reading this who can be influenced...please don't apply/have your kid apply to "lower Ivies" if you have no interest in going there. Only apply to schools that you are interested in. You won't miss being a student at the "lower Ivies" and they won't miss you.

Well said. It reminds me of an old post where someone said they hated their experience at Duke, and then explained that the only reason they went there was because it was the highest-ranked school they got into.

Call me crazy, but colleges are not commodities. They're not all the same, just distinguished by a ranking or their sports conference.

Colleges are many things, including communities, each with a ton of diversity within it, but also with it's own overall personality (which I think of as the story the college likes to tell itself and others about what it is.)

Plus at many schools, whatever they are ranked, your experience will differ depending on your major. There are schools where Humanities majors will more lilely feel like they're with "their people". There are other schools (of equal ranking, if that's your thing) where those same Humanities majors would feel like fish out of water compared to the majority of their classmates.

When you look at it that way, many the top 20 schools are VERY different, even though they're ranked quite similarly. Same for the rest of the colleges out there. If you value the experience at all, they're not interchangeable commodities. (And even if you only value the prestige, that too can differ depending on the major.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:University of Maryland. - Proud Terp '02

Agreed. Best undergraduate experience I've ever had with smart peers who chose to graduate debt-free over fancy name schools. Anyone choosing the ivies over UMD in-state is delusional. Quality of education at UMD better than most ivies since they funnel resources to grad students. Proud Terp '94

UMD>Harvard

That was never a choice for you. You have no basis for saying that.

[Anonymous]

Rough pecking order:

1. HYPSM (+Caltech)
2. Penn, Columbia, UChicago, Duke
3. Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, Northwestern

If by lower ivies you mean any non-HYP then Stanford, MIT, Caltech are better. If by lower ivies you just mean Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, then I’d also put Duke and Chicago above those 3 too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of the SLACs.

+1 top SLACs often overlooked but can be a better option for many students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aside from Stanford, MIT, Duke, Caltech, which schools do you consider better than the "lower ivies" (Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell)?

Its hard to say better or worse but Vanderbilt, Rice, CMU, Amherst, Northwestern and Hopkins are their peer institutions.

Nope. Not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the SLACs.

+1 top SLACs often overlooked but can be a better option for many students

Yep, think about what is better for you. When looking at top schools, it is very hard to say one is objectively better than another. It becomes more about your preferences and what you value experience wise.
I know someone well who loved Swarthmore on their visit and had the chance to play a sport they cared a lot about at the college level. They picked Swarthmore over Yale and several non-HYP Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rough pecking order:

1. HYPSM (+Caltech)
2. Penn, Columbia, UChicago, Duke
3. Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, Northwestern

If by lower ivies you mean any non-HYP then Stanford, MIT, Caltech are better. If by lower ivies you just mean Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, then I’d also put Duke and Chicago above those 3 too.

How do you get Chicago in that 2nd group? Are you a Big3 parent?
Chicago's ability to game USNWR helped them rise but that second group is very high for them. Isn't NW ranked above Chicago in every major publication? Even in the midwest, Chicago isn't considered the top undergrad school in the region reputation wise.

[Anonymous]

The funniest thing about "Ivy or bust" is that no athletes playing the revenue-generating sports have that mentality about what really is a sports league.

[Anonymous]

This is such a dumb thread. Unless anyone can define "better," there really isn't an answer here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rough pecking order:

1. HYPSM (+Caltech)
2. Penn, Columbia, UChicago, Duke
3. Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, Northwestern

If by lower ivies you mean any non-HYP then Stanford, MIT, Caltech are better. If by lower ivies you just mean Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, then I’d also put Duke and Chicago above those 3 too.

How do you get Chicago in that 2nd group? Are you a Big3 parent?
Chicago's ability to game USNWR helped them rise but that second group is very high for them. Isn't NW ranked above Chicago in every major publication? Even in the midwest, Chicago isn't considered the top undergrad school in the region reputation wise.

Times Higher Education (UK based) has it as their number 13 ahead of JHU (ouch) and UPenn, Columbia, Northwestern, Cornell, Duke, etc
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2024/world-ranking

QS (also out of the UK) has it at 11 and ahead of places like CalTech, Yale and Princeton
https://www.topuniversities.com/qs-top-uni-wur

However I do not believe these roll up rankings are all that useful. It is better to look at individuals programs and there are a few where Chicago is indisputably in the world top 10 if not top 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is such a dumb thread. Unless anyone can define "better," there really isn't an answer here.

It is absolutely bizarre. All this time and energy on who is “better” without ever once defining the criteria for measurement. It is angels-on-a-head-of-a-pin level waste, with nearly the same level of religiosity.