Guest lecturer perspective: modern students are absolutely atrocious

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the lecture is the same as it was a decade ago, I assure you that you are in fact boring the crap out of these kids. They know more already than kids used to, as they have access to the latest research at their fingertips, took college classes in high school, and most have done independent research. They need you to speed up the chat and make it interesting. Kids can respond to you text before you finish hitting send (I really don't know how they do that).

LOL. This is like saying a kid knows his multiplication tables because he owns a calculator.

Our society is doomed.

No, it isn't what I'm saying at all.

Using your math facts/calculator analogy; I'm saying its like they've known the math facts since PreK because they had access to technology that successfully instilled it in their little brains so it became second nature, but you are still giving them rhyming songs and games to learn math facts in 3rd grade. And your songs and games bore them.

I'm not saying they can just research things quickly if they need to know it; I'm saying they already did, so they already know it. They are taking in a lot more information every day than you seem to realize, and a lot faster than we did when we had to figure out which book, find it, check it out of the library and read it. By the time old school figures out which book to get, new school already read it and located counter sources and wrote a paper on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This absolutely cracks me up.

You're mad that the next generation has short attention spans, but have you ever stopped to consider that they're absorbing 1000x more information during the time in which it took you to finish your long and drawn out sentence?

Instructional design has yet to catch up and I'm guessing OP hasn't either. Nobody has time for a lecture that's a second longer than it needs to be.

These new generations have evolved to be more efficient and have perfected the ability to breakdown subject matter into bite sized pieces.

If it's not that, they don't want it...can you blame them? Time is the hottest commodity and Gen Z and Gen Alpha is all about protecting their time and being the most efficient with it.

Dumbest comment in the entire thread.

DP: This rings true. They absorb and process information far faster than we ever did. Our high school has taken some AP courses that used to be a year and teaching them to the brightest kids in one semester and they are getting 5s. Processing speeds are increasing and so is impatience with older generations.

And based on what evidence are you proving that:

1. Students in prior generations couldn't have handled the compressed AP classes were that an option? Many of my peers at TJ decades ago were bored in even advanced classes, though I don't claim to be that smart.
2. Faster processing team means better learning?

From a short story written in the 1960s where PTA members from earth visit an imaginary alien planet called Camiroi to learn about the education system there:

“How rapidly do you read?” Miss Hanks asked a young girl.

“One hundred and twenty words a minute,” the girl said.

“On Earth some of the girl students your age have learned to read at the rate of five hundred words a minute,” Miss Hanks said proudly.

“When I began disciplined reading, I was reading at the rate of four thousands words a minute,” the girl said. “They had quite a time correcting me of it. I had to take remedial reading, and my parents were ashamed of me. Now I’ve learned to read almost slow enough.”

“I don’t understand,” said Miss Hanks.
...
“What is this business about slow reading?” Miss Hanks asked. “I don’t understand it at all.”

“Only the other day there was a child in the third grade who persisted in rapid reading.” Philoxenus said. “He was given an object lesson. He was given a book of medium difficulty, and he read it rapidly. Then he had to put the book away and repeat what he had read. Do you know that in the first thirty pages he missed four words? Midway in the book there was a whole statement which he had understood wrongly, and there were hundreds of pages that he got word-perfect only with difficulty. If he was so unsure on material that he had just read, think how imperfectly he would have recalled it forty years later.”

“You mean that the Camiroi children learn to recall everything that they read?”

“The Camiroi children and adults will recall for life every detail they have ever seen, read or heard. We on Camiroi are only a little more intelligent than you on Earth. We cannot afford to waste time in forgetting or reviewing, or in pursuing anything of a shallowness that lends itself to scanning.”
...
And there seems to be no great secret about the accomplishments, only to do everything slowly enough and in the right order:

http://uncabob.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-primary-education-of-camiroi.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the lecture is the same as it was a decade ago, I assure you that you are in fact boring the crap out of these kids. They know more already than kids used to, as they have access to the latest research at their fingertips, took college classes in high school, and most have done independent research. They need you to speed up the chat and make it interesting. Kids can respond to you text before you finish hitting send (I really don't know how they do that).

LOL. This is like saying a kid knows his multiplication tables because he owns a calculator.

Our society is doomed.

No, it isn't what I'm saying at all.

Using your math facts/calculator analogy; I'm saying its like they've known the math facts since PreK because they had access to technology that successfully instilled it in their little brains so it became second nature, but you are still giving them rhyming songs and games to learn math facts in 3rd grade. And your songs and games bore them.

I'm not saying they can just research things quickly if they need to know it; I'm saying they already did, so they already know it. They are taking in a lot more information every day than you seem to realize, and a lot faster than we did when we had to figure out which book, find it, check it out of the library and read it. By the time old school figures out which book to get, new school already read it and located counter sources and wrote a paper on it.

NP memorization is a HUGE part of brain development. It's very necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the lecture is the same as it was a decade ago, I assure you that you are in fact boring the crap out of these kids. They know more already than kids used to, as they have access to the latest research at their fingertips, took college classes in high school, and most have done independent research. They need you to speed up the chat and make it interesting. Kids can respond to you text before you finish hitting send (I really don't know how they do that).

LOL. This is like saying a kid knows his multiplication tables because he owns a calculator.

Our society is doomed.

No, it isn't what I'm saying at all.

Using your math facts/calculator analogy; I'm saying its like they've known the math facts since PreK because they had access to technology that successfully instilled it in their little brains so it became second nature, but you are still giving them rhyming songs and games to learn math facts in 3rd grade. And your songs and games bore them.

I'm not saying they can just research things quickly if they need to know it; I'm saying they already did, so they already know it. They are taking in a lot more information every day than you seem to realize, and a lot faster than we did when we had to figure out which book, find it, check it out of the library and read it. By the time old school figures out which book to get, new school already read it and located counter sources and wrote a paper on it.

NP memorization is a HUGE part of brain development. It's very necessary.

lol ok are you over 50?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the lecture is the same as it was a decade ago, I assure you that you are in fact boring the crap out of these kids. They know more already than kids used to, as they have access to the latest research at their fingertips, took college classes in high school, and most have done independent research. They need you to speed up the chat and make it interesting. Kids can respond to you text before you finish hitting send (I really don't know how they do that).

LOL. This is like saying a kid knows his multiplication tables because he owns a calculator.

Our society is doomed.

No, it isn't what I'm saying at all.

Using your math facts/calculator analogy; I'm saying its like they've known the math facts since PreK because they had access to technology that successfully instilled it in their little brains so it became second nature, but you are still giving them rhyming songs and games to learn math facts in 3rd grade. And your songs and games bore them.

I'm not saying they can just research things quickly if they need to know it; I'm saying they already did, so they already know it. They are taking in a lot more information every day than you seem to realize, and a lot faster than we did when we had to figure out which book, find it, check it out of the library and read it. By the time old school figures out which book to get, new school already read it and located counter sources and wrote a paper on it.

NP memorization is a HUGE part of brain development. It's very necessary.

lol ok are you over 50?

No, maybe do some research before you post such intelligent retorts as "lol"

here is a start:

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/why-memorizing-things-though-a-lost-art-isnt-a-waste-of-time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the lecture is the same as it was a decade ago, I assure you that you are in fact boring the crap out of these kids. They know more already than kids used to, as they have access to the latest research at their fingertips, took college classes in high school, and most have done independent research. They need you to speed up the chat and make it interesting. Kids can respond to you text before you finish hitting send (I really don't know how they do that).

LOL. This is like saying a kid knows his multiplication tables because he owns a calculator.

Our society is doomed.

No, it isn't what I'm saying at all.

Using your math facts/calculator analogy; I'm saying its like they've known the math facts since PreK because they had access to technology that successfully instilled it in their little brains so it became second nature, but you are still giving them rhyming songs and games to learn math facts in 3rd grade. And your songs and games bore them.

I'm not saying they can just research things quickly if they need to know it; I'm saying they already did, so they already know it. They are taking in a lot more information every day than you seem to realize, and a lot faster than we did when we had to figure out which book, find it, check it out of the library and read it. By the time old school figures out which book to get, new school already read it and located counter sources and wrote a paper on it.

NP memorization is a HUGE part of brain development. It's very necessary.

lol ok are you over 50?

No, maybe do some research before you post such intelligent retorts as "lol"

here is a start:

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/why-memorizing-things-though-a-lost-art-isnt-a-waste-of-time

did you memorize that website?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the lecture is the same as it was a decade ago, I assure you that you are in fact boring the crap out of these kids. They know more already than kids used to, as they have access to the latest research at their fingertips, took college classes in high school, and most have done independent research. They need you to speed up the chat and make it interesting. Kids can respond to you text before you finish hitting send (I really don't know how they do that).

LOL. This is like saying a kid knows his multiplication tables because he owns a calculator.

Our society is doomed.

No, it isn't what I'm saying at all.

Using your math facts/calculator analogy; I'm saying its like they've known the math facts since PreK because they had access to technology that successfully instilled it in their little brains so it became second nature, but you are still giving them rhyming songs and games to learn math facts in 3rd grade. And your songs and games bore them.

I'm not saying they can just research things quickly if they need to know it; I'm saying they already did, so they already know it. They are taking in a lot more information every day than you seem to realize, and a lot faster than we did when we had to figure out which book, find it, check it out of the library and read it. By the time old school figures out which book to get, new school already read it and located counter sources and wrote a paper on it.

NP memorization is a HUGE part of brain development. It's very necessary.

lol ok are you over 50?

No, maybe do some research before you post such intelligent retorts as "lol"

here is a start:

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/why-memorizing-things-though-a-lost-art-isnt-a-waste-of-time

did you memorize that website?

I memorized plenty in my life which only served me well. More than you can say judging by your responses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the lecture is the same as it was a decade ago, I assure you that you are in fact boring the crap out of these kids. They know more already than kids used to, as they have access to the latest research at their fingertips, took college classes in high school, and most have done independent research. They need you to speed up the chat and make it interesting. Kids can respond to you text before you finish hitting send (I really don't know how they do that).

LOL. This is like saying a kid knows his multiplication tables because he owns a calculator.

Our society is doomed.

No, it isn't what I'm saying at all.

Using your math facts/calculator analogy; I'm saying its like they've known the math facts since PreK because they had access to technology that successfully instilled it in their little brains so it became second nature, but you are still giving them rhyming songs and games to learn math facts in 3rd grade. And your songs and games bore them.

I'm not saying they can just research things quickly if they need to know it; I'm saying they already did, so they already know it. They are taking in a lot more information every day than you seem to realize, and a lot faster than we did when we had to figure out which book, find it, check it out of the library and read it. By the time old school figures out which book to get, new school already read it and located counter sources and wrote a paper on it.

I wish this were true for all the fourth and fifth graders in my school who don’t know their addition OR multiplication facts, for whom multi-step problems are a confusing nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My siblings a college professor. He says it’s really bad for years and gotten worse. Critical thought is dead and there is no interest in reviving it. It’s bad news

That's because we no longer teach kids in a way that makes sense to teach them critical thinking. First stuff their heads with facts in elementary (so they have a basis from which to even begin to think), then teach them logic in middle, then teach the persuasion in high school. Dorothy Sayers was right.

They're now being taught persuasive writing in elementary school. That's one of the things that is leading to all these unintended consequences. Research is no longer about gathering general information that then gets analayzed. Research nowadays is entirely about finding support for the argument they come up with first.

PP. Persuasive writing is not the problem. I understand what you're trying to say but in my school district there's not enough persuasive writing to create little spinmeisters. There's just not enough factual non-fiction and analytical writing. There are more explicit media literacy units though - those are actually useful.

Maybe your district is different than mine. In mine it is almost entirely persuasive writing with a little bit of narrative. Kids, starting in at least fourth grade, are constantly asked to provide their opinion on subjects that they do not have anything close to the background knowledge needed to have an informed opinion.

Obviously it is not the sole problem but the elevation of opinion above fact has knock on effects that we see all over the place

So true!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the lecture is the same as it was a decade ago, I assure you that you are in fact boring the crap out of these kids. They know more already than kids used to, as they have access to the latest research at their fingertips, took college classes in high school, and most have done independent research. They need you to speed up the chat and make it interesting. Kids can respond to you text before you finish hitting send (I really don't know how they do that).

Ummm... no

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the lecture is the same as it was a decade ago, I assure you that you are in fact boring the crap out of these kids. They know more already than kids used to, as they have access to the latest research at their fingertips, took college classes in high school, and most have done independent research. They need you to speed up the chat and make it interesting. Kids can respond to you text before you finish hitting send (I really don't know how they do that).

LOL. This is like saying a kid knows his multiplication tables because he owns a calculator.

Our society is doomed.

No, it isn't what I'm saying at all.

Using your math facts/calculator analogy; I'm saying its like they've known the math facts since PreK because they had access to technology that successfully instilled it in their little brains so it became second nature, but you are still giving them rhyming songs and games to learn math facts in 3rd grade. And your songs and games bore them.

I'm not saying they can just research things quickly if they need to know it; I'm saying they already did, so they already know it. They are taking in a lot more information every day than you seem to realize, and a lot faster than we did when we had to figure out which book, find it, check it out of the library and read it. By the time old school figures out which book to get, new school already read it and located counter sources and wrote a paper on it.

You are either a teenager with a very exaggerated sense of your abilities or you are delusional. Try reading sample essays on the College Board website and you'll see how bad things have gotten...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the lecture is the same as it was a decade ago, I assure you that you are in fact boring the crap out of these kids. They know more already than kids used to, as they have access to the latest research at their fingertips, took college classes in high school, and most have done independent research. They need you to speed up the chat and make it interesting. Kids can respond to you text before you finish hitting send (I really don't know how they do that).

LOL. This is like saying a kid knows his multiplication tables because he owns a calculator.

Our society is doomed.

No, it isn't what I'm saying at all.

Using your math facts/calculator analogy; I'm saying its like they've known the math facts since PreK because they had access to technology that successfully instilled it in their little brains so it became second nature, but you are still giving them rhyming songs and games to learn math facts in 3rd grade. And your songs and games bore them.

I'm not saying they can just research things quickly if they need to know it; I'm saying they already did, so they already know it. They are taking in a lot more information every day than you seem to realize, and a lot faster than we did when we had to figure out which book, find it, check it out of the library and read it. By the time old school figures out which book to get, new school already read it and located counter sources and wrote a paper on it.

I wish this were true for all the fourth and fifth graders in my school who don’t know their addition OR multiplication facts, for whom multi-step problems are a confusing nightmare.

+ 1 million. As a parent my kids chant their facts the same way my entire class had to as a kid. My kid read in The Week Junior that reviewing math before bed helps with retention, so I will sometimes come to give her a kiss goodnight and hear her whispering "six times seven is fourty-two, seven times seven is fourty-nine..."

Google won't help a kid pass the IAAT (required for 7th grade Algebra in FCPS), which is a timed test that relies on excellent recall of facts and problem solving strategies. Only memorization will.

Plus how do you get to being able to reason and understand without a solid basis of the facts of each subject. History, science, math, writing, reading, they all have their own "grammar." The grammar of writing is, of course, grammar. The grammar of reading is phonics. The grammar of science is the basic facts undergirding each discipline, like Newton's laws in physics or the periodic table in chemistry. The grammar of history is timelines and dates and people and events. Each of those is highly condusive to memorizing. The grammar of math is facts and basic algorithms. Elementary aged brains are exceptionally good at memorizing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My siblings a college professor. He says it’s really bad for years and gotten worse. Critical thought is dead and there is no interest in reviving it. It’s bad news

That's because we no longer teach kids in a way that makes sense to teach them critical thinking. First stuff their heads with facts in elementary (so they have a basis from which to even begin to think), then teach them logic in middle, then teach the persuasion in high school. Dorothy Sayers was right.

They're now being taught persuasive writing in elementary school. That's one of the things that is leading to all these unintended consequences. Research is no longer about gathering general information that then gets analayzed. Research nowadays is entirely about finding support for the argument they come up with first.

And typically, their feelings are used as evidence...

In my kids' public school district at least, kids are taught to use research sources far sooner than they ever were in decades before. And in addition to persuasive writing they are taught analysis of sources. I think all the complainers need to actually look at the evidence in the curriculum before making unsupported blanket statements.

Name the schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like your lecture sucks honestly.

Nope, it's the same but with updated info. I actually got feedback directly from the students - overwhelmingly positive every single time. The material is fine.

Why could students in 2010 pay attention and listen while kids in 2024 have the attention spans of ants?

I agree with the pp here. Going off 13yo data is not wise. Nothing ages that well.

Honestly, I have trouble listening through most lectures. I don't think that I've changed for the worse since 2010. I'm not going to appear rapt, but I get what's important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My siblings a college professor. He says it’s really bad for years and gotten worse. Critical thought is dead and there is no interest in reviving it. It’s bad news

That's because we no longer teach kids in a way that makes sense to teach them critical thinking. First stuff their heads with facts in elementary (so they have a basis from which to even begin to think), then teach them logic in middle, then teach the persuasion in high school. Dorothy Sayers was right.

If you look at the college forum, parents are demanding/celebrating this. The amount of parents who are apoplectic about being TO is eye-opening. To them, an essay shouldn't count for much.

3-2-1...parents will decry that students use AI to write their essays. So what's the solution? You can't have it both ways.