IVF embryos are people too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The facts of the original case are beyond bizarre and seem like some bad movie. A “patient” at a fertility clinic “eloped” and broke into the room that stored frozen embryos, broke into the storage and grabbed several frozen embryos (in their containers) with their bare hands. Since that was basically a serious freezer, the eloper’s hands were severely burned immediately from the freezing metal and so the eloper dropped all of the embryos he/she was carrying and them broke onto the floor. When the breach was discovered the frozen embryos essentially had died.

So this was a joint lawsuit from 3 of the affected families who lost embryos for “unlawful death”.

Sounds like a fake incident setup by rightwingers to bring the case to the court solely for the purposes of a de-facto ban on IVF. This was all planned in advance.

I don't think so. Originally these were separate cases involving three families but the court consolidated them. Each family lost multiple embryos. It sounds like some freak occurrence. You can collect the most money via punitive damages and the only way in this case to get punitive is under the Wrongful Death of a Minor Child Act and to qualify you must prove it was a child. So assuming the parents wanted to get the most damages, this is the way to go. Whether some special interest group was involved I don't know and couldn't find out.

I think after some digging we’re going to find out that this “freak occurrence” was carefully planned. The goal is to get this to SCOTUS. Well really the goal is to stop single women, lesbians and gays w/surrogates from having kid.

[Anonymous]

I’m tripping over the crime that instigated this.
A patient in an Alabama clinic went into the freezer and took out a bunch of random embryos, thereby destroying them.

I’m trying to envision that happening and I can not wrap my head around it.
Seriously WHAT THE HELL?!?!?
Did that person have to answer for it? It’s enraging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m tripping over the crime that instigated this.
A patient in an Alabama clinic went into the freezer and took out a bunch of random embryos, thereby destroying them.

I’m trying to envision that happening and I can not wrap my head around it.
Seriously WHAT THE HELL?!?!?
Did that person have to answer for it? It’s enraging.

So the embryo storage was located inside a hospital. Apparently a patient from the hospital left their room, wandered around, ended up in the storage room, opened the freezer, pulled out a bunch of embryos (at least 5) and dropped them on the floor bc the extreme cold temperature of whatever container the embryos were in burned the bare hands of the person. It’s complete madness.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish I could post this in the thread about Rob Reiner’s documentary on Christian Nationalism but it got locked. This is language in a real court ruling in America.

The Catholic Church strongly opposes IVF.

The Catholic Church? I lost all respect for the CC during the HIV/AIDS epidemic when they opposed condom use (because they oppose contraception except for the rhythm method) and promoted "chastity." Never mind, how they protected pedophile priests...

The twin cruelties of denying birth control and their child raping road show is why I despise the Catholic Church, add to that their worsening the HIV/AIDS crisis and their political action and they’re even worse.

I guess denying IVF is why they need to have more White babies for the pipeline or whatever the Handmaiden said.

The Church’s teaching on the immorality of IVF is based upon God ordained natural law. Chastity outside of marriage between a man and a woman has always been part of the Catechism. The Catholic Church is furthermore growing fastest in Subsaharan Africa so it has nothing to do with white babies (the Church is shrinking fastest in Western Europe and North America. The next Pope may very well be a black African.
Oh, and there’s a very special place in Hell for child raping priests.

Folks that do not believe in IVF should not get IVF treatment. Other people were given an amazing IVF treatment by their God to allow them to have a family and it does nto concern you in any way.

I have one vote just like you do. My vote is determined by my conscience formed by the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I am catholic and I have a children conceived by IVF. God told me to do it and was right.

NP
You chose to go against the teachings of the church. You have the right to make that choice, but that choice makes you NOT a practicing Catholic.

I turn down the greatest gift god has given me and THAT makes me a Catholic. I don't think so.

If you believe god has given you that gift, that is your option. Others believe in science.

I believe in science. My argument is that for every religious person telling me that IVF is forbidden by this or that church there is a flip argument that IVF is encouraged by this or that church.

In my opinion reproductive decisions are private and personal. No one has to treat infertility with IVF but no one should be denied that treatment if they believe that it is the right decision for their situation.

"This chruch or that church" perhaps, but NOT the Catholic church.

DP. I’m Christian (United Methodist). Due to PCOS, I went through IVF to conceive my children. My pastor was quite supportive. Why, exactly, do you feel that the Catholic Church should have any say at all over my body? Or the bodies of Jewish women, or atheist women, or Mormon women, or anyone else? You believe IVF/abortion/whatever is morally wrong? Don’t do it.
Get your version of morality and Christianity off of my body, and out of politics. We have separation of church and state for a reason.

I fail to understand why these cases aren't challenged on separation of church and state. This is a purely religious doctrine dominating other faiths and pushed down on everyone by the state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish I could post this in the thread about Rob Reiner’s documentary on Christian Nationalism but it got locked. This is language in a real court ruling in America.

The Catholic Church strongly opposes IVF.

The Catholic Church? I lost all respect for the CC during the HIV/AIDS epidemic when they opposed condom use (because they oppose contraception except for the rhythm method) and promoted "chastity." Never mind, how they protected pedophile priests...

The twin cruelties of denying birth control and their child raping road show is why I despise the Catholic Church, add to that their worsening the HIV/AIDS crisis and their political action and they’re even worse.

I guess denying IVF is why they need to have more White babies for the pipeline or whatever the Handmaiden said.

The Church’s teaching on the immorality of IVF is based upon God ordained natural law. Chastity outside of marriage between a man and a woman has always been part of the Catechism. The Catholic Church is furthermore growing fastest in Subsaharan Africa so it has nothing to do with white babies (the Church is shrinking fastest in Western Europe and North America. The next Pope may very well be a black African.
Oh, and there’s a very special place in Hell for child raping priests.

Folks that do not believe in IVF should not get IVF treatment. Other people were given an amazing IVF treatment by their God to allow them to have a family and it does nto concern you in any way.

I have one vote just like you do. My vote is determined by my conscience formed by the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I am catholic and I have a children conceived by IVF. God told me to do it and was right.

NP
You chose to go against the teachings of the church. You have the right to make that choice, but that choice makes you NOT a practicing Catholic.

I turn down the greatest gift god has given me and THAT makes me a Catholic. I don't think so.

If you believe god has given you that gift, that is your option. Others believe in science.

I believe in science. My argument is that for every religious person telling me that IVF is forbidden by this or that church there is a flip argument that IVF is encouraged by this or that church.

In my opinion reproductive decisions are private and personal. No one has to treat infertility with IVF but no one should be denied that treatment if they believe that it is the right decision for their situation.

"This chruch or that church" perhaps, but NOT the Catholic church.

DP. I’m Christian (United Methodist). Due to PCOS, I went through IVF to conceive my children. My pastor was quite supportive. Why, exactly, do you feel that the Catholic Church should have any say at all over my body? Or the bodies of Jewish women, or atheist women, or Mormon women, or anyone else? You believe IVF/abortion/whatever is morally wrong? Don’t do it.
Get your version of morality and Christianity off of my body, and out of politics. We have separation of church and state for a reason.

I fail to understand why these cases aren't challenged on separation of church and state. This is a purely religious doctrine dominating other faiths and pushed down on everyone by the state.

Because the judges deciding these cases, by design, are radical Christian fundamentalists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m tripping over the crime that instigated this.
A patient in an Alabama clinic went into the freezer and took out a bunch of random embryos, thereby destroying them.

I’m trying to envision that happening and I can not wrap my head around it.
Seriously WHAT THE HELL?!?!?
Did that person have to answer for it? It’s enraging.

So the embryo storage was located inside a hospital. Apparently a patient from the hospital left their room, wandered around, ended up in the storage room, opened the freezer, pulled out a bunch of embryos (at least 5) and dropped them on the floor bc the extreme cold temperature of whatever container the embryos were in burned the bare hands of the person. It’s complete madness.

I was using a clinic that had a storage unit fail. Apparently the alarm warning of a rising temp was annoying some of the workers, so they just turned it off. 1000’s of embryos were destroyed. I believe this was national news. They offered to return people’s storage fees.
Can you imagine? I was adorable assuming the hospital would willingly take responsibility and make it right ( or as close as possible)
I had a friend that lost all of her banked embryos. She was the last person to settle and had to sign an NDA.
At no point in her litigation did she refer to the embryos as humans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate to say I told you so, but thus begins the end of IVF....

https://publicportal-api.alappeals.gov/courts/68f021c4-6a44-4735-9a76-5360b2e8af13/cms/case/343d203a-b13d-463a-8176-c46e3ae4f695/docketentrydocuments/e3d95592-3cbe-4384-afa6-063d4595aa1d

It really does not make any sense to prize zygotes in-utero and not outside of the uterus.

Prize?

Fascinating read, but couldn’t read it all. What was the verdict? A cyro- embryo is a person? It always was honestly. Just moved from the moral/ethical realm into the legal realm, now with a lot more people involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish I could post this in the thread about Rob Reiner’s documentary on Christian Nationalism but it got locked. This is language in a real court ruling in America.

The Catholic Church strongly opposes IVF.

The Catholic Church? I lost all respect for the CC during the HIV/AIDS epidemic when they opposed condom use (because they oppose contraception except for the rhythm method) and promoted "chastity." Never mind, how they protected pedophile priests...

The twin cruelties of denying birth control and their child raping road show is why I despise the Catholic Church, add to that their worsening the HIV/AIDS crisis and their political action and they’re even worse.

I guess denying IVF is why they need to have more White babies for the pipeline or whatever the Handmaiden said.

The Church’s teaching on the immorality of IVF is based upon God ordained natural law. Chastity outside of marriage between a man and a woman has always been part of the Catechism. The Catholic Church is furthermore growing fastest in Subsaharan Africa so it has nothing to do with white babies (the Church is shrinking fastest in Western Europe and North America. The next Pope may very well be a black African.
Oh, and there’s a very special place in Hell for child raping priests.

Folks that do not believe in IVF should not get IVF treatment. Other people were given an amazing IVF treatment by their God to allow them to have a family and it does nto concern you in any way.

I have one vote just like you do. My vote is determined by my conscience formed by the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I am catholic and I have a children conceived by IVF. God told me to do it and was right.

NP
You chose to go against the teachings of the church. You have the right to make that choice, but that choice makes you NOT a practicing Catholic.

I turn down the greatest gift god has given me and THAT makes me a Catholic. I don't think so.

If you believe god has given you that gift, that is your option. Others believe in science.

I believe in science. My argument is that for every religious person telling me that IVF is forbidden by this or that church there is a flip argument that IVF is encouraged by this or that church.

In my opinion reproductive decisions are private and personal. No one has to treat infertility with IVF but no one should be denied that treatment if they believe that it is the right decision for their situation.

"This chruch or that church" perhaps, but NOT the Catholic church.

DP. I’m Christian (United Methodist). Due to PCOS, I went through IVF to conceive my children. My pastor was quite supportive. Why, exactly, do you feel that the Catholic Church should have any say at all over my body? Or the bodies of Jewish women, or atheist women, or Mormon women, or anyone else? You believe IVF/abortion/whatever is morally wrong? Don’t do it.
Get your version of morality and Christianity off of my body, and out of politics. We have separation of church and state for a reason.

I fail to understand why these cases aren't challenged on separation of church and state. This is a purely religious doctrine dominating other faiths and pushed down on everyone by the state.

Because the judges deciding these cases, by design, are radical Christian fundamentalists.

This. Staunch Catholics and Evangelicals.

[Anonymous]

I am also a Christian woman who doesn't want either the Catholic Church or the Evangelical churches to have any power over my body.

I am American, not Catholic nor Evangelical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish I could post this in the thread about Rob Reiner’s documentary on Christian Nationalism but it got locked. This is language in a real court ruling in America.

The Catholic Church strongly opposes IVF.

The Catholic Church? I lost all respect for the CC during the HIV/AIDS epidemic when they opposed condom use (because they oppose contraception except for the rhythm method) and promoted "chastity." Never mind, how they protected pedophile priests...

The twin cruelties of denying birth control and their child raping road show is why I despise the Catholic Church, add to that their worsening the HIV/AIDS crisis and their political action and they’re even worse.

I guess denying IVF is why they need to have more White babies for the pipeline or whatever the Handmaiden said.

The Church’s teaching on the immorality of IVF is based upon God ordained natural law. Chastity outside of marriage between a man and a woman has always been part of the Catechism. The Catholic Church is furthermore growing fastest in Subsaharan Africa so it has nothing to do with white babies (the Church is shrinking fastest in Western Europe and North America. The next Pope may very well be a black African.
Oh, and there’s a very special place in Hell for child raping priests.

Folks that do not believe in IVF should not get IVF treatment. Other people were given an amazing IVF treatment by their God to allow them to have a family and it does nto concern you in any way.

I have one vote just like you do. My vote is determined by my conscience formed by the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I am catholic and I have a children conceived by IVF. God told me to do it and was right.

We are all sinners but God cannot ordain that which is sin.

You are not to sit in judgement either. That is between PP and her God. You don't get to decide for everyone what God, if a god even exists - which many dispute, would make the law of Alabama. God is not a legislator nor a Justice. The law of this land is meant to be a compromise of all of our people, and we don't all agree. You cannot make something a crime when others believe it to be a God given right. Ironic, no?

Actually if the action violates natural law and the doctrine of the Church I have an obligation as a Catholic to oppose it. So I will, and vote accordingly.

Did you oppose all the priests raping children for decades, or was that one sin you twisted your eyes not to see

[Anonymous]

what does IRS think about those people whose personhood starts much before their actual age counting begins? Because if it is a person it has to have a birth date and age. What if a frozen embryo takes breath 10 years ore more after becoming a 'person'? Will it be 15 yo in Kindergarten?
How would their IRA, Roth IRA, RMDs, Social Security, Medicare work?

This must get struck down at SCOTUS.

Horrifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish I could post this in the thread about Rob Reiner’s documentary on Christian Nationalism but it got locked. This is language in a real court ruling in America.

The Catholic Church strongly opposes IVF.

The Catholic Church? I lost all respect for the CC during the HIV/AIDS epidemic when they opposed condom use (because they oppose contraception except for the rhythm method) and promoted "chastity." Never mind, how they protected pedophile priests...

The twin cruelties of denying birth control and their child raping road show is why I despise the Catholic Church, add to that their worsening the HIV/AIDS crisis and their political action and they’re even worse.

I guess denying IVF is why they need to have more White babies for the pipeline or whatever the Handmaiden said.

The Church’s teaching on the immorality of IVF is based upon God ordained natural law. Chastity outside of marriage between a man and a woman has always been part of the Catechism. The Catholic Church is furthermore growing fastest in Subsaharan Africa so it has nothing to do with white babies (the Church is shrinking fastest in Western Europe and North America. The next Pope may very well be a black African.
Oh, and there’s a very special place in Hell for child raping priests.

Folks that do not believe in IVF should not get IVF treatment. Other people were given an amazing IVF treatment by their God to allow them to have a family and it does nto concern you in any way.

I have one vote just like you do. My vote is determined by my conscience formed by the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I am catholic and I have a children conceived by IVF. God told me to do it and was right.

NP
You chose to go against the teachings of the church. You have the right to make that choice, but that choice makes you NOT a practicing Catholic.

I turn down the greatest gift god has given me and THAT makes me a Catholic. I don't think so.

If you believe god has given you that gift, that is your option. Others believe in science.

I believe in science. My argument is that for every religious person telling me that IVF is forbidden by this or that church there is a flip argument that IVF is encouraged by this or that church.

In my opinion reproductive decisions are private and personal. No one has to treat infertility with IVF but no one should be denied that treatment if they believe that it is the right decision for their situation.

"This chruch or that church" perhaps, but NOT the Catholic church.

We need to agree to disagree. I would urge people to get infertility treated if they can. And vote to ensure important medical treatments are not outlawed in Alabama or anywhere else.

No. It is a fact, not an opinion, that the Catholic church does not encourage IVF.

Are you infertile?

My fertility is irrelevant. I am not stating my feelings about IVF. I am stating the Catholic church’s position on IVF.
If you pursue IVF you are not a practicing Catholic. Just like if you eat meat you are not a vegetarian.

I’ll tell that to the Catholic women I know who have had IVF, not to mention the ones I know who have had abortions.

Just out of curiosity, do pedo priests still remain Catholics? What about the church officials who aid and abet them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish I could post this in the thread about Rob Reiner’s documentary on Christian Nationalism but it got locked. This is language in a real court ruling in America.

The Catholic Church strongly opposes IVF.

The Catholic Church? I lost all respect for the CC during the HIV/AIDS epidemic when they opposed condom use (because they oppose contraception except for the rhythm method) and promoted "chastity." Never mind, how they protected pedophile priests...

The twin cruelties of denying birth control and their child raping road show is why I despise the Catholic Church, add to that their worsening the HIV/AIDS crisis and their political action and they’re even worse.

I guess denying IVF is why they need to have more White babies for the pipeline or whatever the Handmaiden said.

The Church’s teaching on the immorality of IVF is based upon God ordained natural law. Chastity outside of marriage between a man and a woman has always been part of the Catechism. The Catholic Church is furthermore growing fastest in Subsaharan Africa so it has nothing to do with white babies (the Church is shrinking fastest in Western Europe and North America. The next Pope may very well be a black African.
Oh, and there’s a very special place in Hell for child raping priests.

Folks that do not believe in IVF should not get IVF treatment. Other people were given an amazing IVF treatment by their God to allow them to have a family and it does nto concern you in any way.

I have one vote just like you do. My vote is determined by my conscience formed by the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I am catholic and I have a children conceived by IVF. God told me to do it and was right.

NP
You chose to go against the teachings of the church. You have the right to make that choice, but that choice makes you NOT a practicing Catholic.

I turn down the greatest gift god has given me and THAT makes me a Catholic. I don't think so.

If you believe god has given you that gift, that is your option. Others believe in science.

I believe in science. My argument is that for every religious person telling me that IVF is forbidden by this or that church there is a flip argument that IVF is encouraged by this or that church.

In my opinion reproductive decisions are private and personal. No one has to treat infertility with IVF but no one should be denied that treatment if they believe that it is the right decision for their situation.

"This chruch or that church" perhaps, but NOT the Catholic church.

We need to agree to disagree. I would urge people to get infertility treated if they can. And vote to ensure important medical treatments are not outlawed in Alabama or anywhere else.

No. It is a fact, not an opinion, that the Catholic church does not encourage IVF.

Are you infertile?

My fertility is irrelevant. I am not stating my feelings about IVF. I am stating the Catholic church’s position on IVF.
If you pursue IVF you are not a practicing Catholic. Just like if you eat meat you are not a vegetarian.

I’ll tell that to the Catholic women I know who have had IVF, not to mention the ones I know who have had abortions.

Just out of curiosity, do pedo priests still remain Catholics? What about the church officials who aid and abet them?

You'll tell that to the WOMEN (not CATHOLIC women) that do things that are contrary to the Catholic church's teachings--which they have every right to do, since they are NOT practicing Catholics.

And Yes, anyone that sexually abuses children is also not a practicing Catholic.

[Anonymous]

The entire back story is completely nuts. I am not sure if it was a set up or what. It is actually somewhat common for mistakes to be made and have embryos accidentally destroyed by fertility clinics (most common scenario seems to be a power failure). There are multitudes of lawsuits that ensue over them.

But this case seems sketchy and there isn't much press at all about what happened. No info on the person who committed the act (man or woman, who were they, why were they in the hospital, were they ever caught), was anyone ever charged? From google it seems it happened in December 2020 and that the destroyed embryos were laying on the floor for some time before they were discovered. And if the person burned their hands, how were they not discovered? Didn't they need medical treatment?

Too many weird questions IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish I could post this in the thread about Rob Reiner’s documentary on Christian Nationalism but it got locked. This is language in a real court ruling in America.

The Catholic Church strongly opposes IVF.

The Catholic Church? I lost all respect for the CC during the HIV/AIDS epidemic when they opposed condom use (because they oppose contraception except for the rhythm method) and promoted "chastity." Never mind, how they protected pedophile priests...

The twin cruelties of denying birth control and their child raping road show is why I despise the Catholic Church, add to that their worsening the HIV/AIDS crisis and their political action and they’re even worse.

I guess denying IVF is why they need to have more White babies for the pipeline or whatever the Handmaiden said.

The Church’s teaching on the immorality of IVF is based upon God ordained natural law. Chastity outside of marriage between a man and a woman has always been part of the Catechism. The Catholic Church is furthermore growing fastest in Subsaharan Africa so it has nothing to do with white babies (the Church is shrinking fastest in Western Europe and North America. The next Pope may very well be a black African.
Oh, and there’s a very special place in Hell for child raping priests.

Folks that do not believe in IVF should not get IVF treatment. Other people were given an amazing IVF treatment by their God to allow them to have a family and it does nto concern you in any way.

I have one vote just like you do. My vote is determined by my conscience formed by the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I am catholic and I have a children conceived by IVF. God told me to do it and was right.

NP
You chose to go against the teachings of the church. You have the right to make that choice, but that choice makes you NOT a practicing Catholic.

I turn down the greatest gift god has given me and THAT makes me a Catholic. I don't think so.

If you believe god has given you that gift, that is your option. Others believe in science.

I believe in science. My argument is that for every religious person telling me that IVF is forbidden by this or that church there is a flip argument that IVF is encouraged by this or that church.

In my opinion reproductive decisions are private and personal. No one has to treat infertility with IVF but no one should be denied that treatment if they believe that it is the right decision for their situation.

"This chruch or that church" perhaps, but NOT the Catholic church.

We need to agree to disagree. I would urge people to get infertility treated if they can. And vote to ensure important medical treatments are not outlawed in Alabama or anywhere else.

No. It is a fact, not an opinion, that the Catholic church does not encourage IVF.

Are you infertile?

My fertility is irrelevant. I am not stating my feelings about IVF. I am stating the Catholic church’s position on IVF.
If you pursue IVF you are not a practicing Catholic. Just like if you eat meat you are not a vegetarian.

I’ll tell that to the Catholic women I know who have had IVF, not to mention the ones I know who have had abortions.

Just out of curiosity, do pedo priests still remain Catholics? What about the church officials who aid and abet them?

You'll tell that to the WOMEN (not CATHOLIC women) that do things that are contrary to the Catholic church's teachings--which they have every right to do, since they are NOT practicing Catholics.

And Yes, anyone that sexually abuses children is also not a practicing Catholic.

Ok but your DCUM judgements and theology lessons have no effect on reality. Catholic women have been rolling their eyes at the backwards reproductive teachings in the church for decades. They simply just ignore it and continue to try to focus on doing unto others. One of these decades, the Catholic Church will evolve