Have you broken an early decision contract?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know of someone who broke it. That school put the word out and other schools revoked their offers. Kid did their first year at the local community college.

Didn't happen. No way the colleges are organized enough or willing to spend the time to contact the other schools.

Oh, but it did happen and DOJ opened an investigation a few years ago. Probably nothing happening with DOJ at this point, but the colleges were warned.

https://www.gazettenet.com/amherst-college-is-part-of-federal-probe-16803518

dean of admission and financial aid at Amherst College — in a 2016 U.S. & World News Report article titled

“[Fretwell] says her school and about 30 other colleges share lists of students admitted through early decision,” that article reads. “And Fretwell says she’d likely also share the names of students who were admitted via early decision, but who are not attending for financial aid and other reasons.”

Allocating customers and not competing for customers are textbook anti trust violations. Those cases would be far easier than trying to argue about installed software with search engine preferences. Any one want to bet on whether or not they still share information?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/us/politics/justice-department-probe-college-early-decision.html

In 2016, Amherst’s dean of admissions told U.S. News that the college and about 30 others shared lists of students admitted through early decision, and that she would also be open to sharing the names of students who chose not to attend and for what reasons.

Collusion! Classic antitrust behavior, and they would lose if an action is brought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know of someone who broke it. That school put the word out and other schools revoked their offers. Kid did their first year at the local community college.

Didn't happen. No way the colleges are organized enough or willing to spend the time to contact the other schools.

Oh, but it did happen and DOJ opened an investigation a few years ago. Probably nothing happening with DOJ at this point, but the colleges were warned.

https://www.gazettenet.com/amherst-college-is-part-of-federal-probe-16803518

dean of admission and financial aid at Amherst College — in a 2016 U.S. & World News Report article titled

“[Fretwell] says her school and about 30 other colleges share lists of students admitted through early decision,” that article reads. “And Fretwell says she’d likely also share the names of students who were admitted via early decision, but who are not attending for financial aid and other reasons.”

DP: +1 Yes, it is a practice.

If interested in more information about the legality of early decision see: https://open.mitchellhamline.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1300&context=mhlr

"Andrew Belasco, Ph.D and chief executive officer of College
Transitions, also acknowledges that “there are groups of colleges that share
lists of early decision acceptances. ‘If a student backs out of an agreement
and attempts to apply to a college within this group, it is very unlikely that
they will be admitted.’”219

The understanding between the schools is that the other schools
will withdraw those students accepted elsewhere from their applicant
pools.221 “Even without legal ramifications, bowing out of an ED acceptance
can hurt [a student’s] chances of acceptance elsewhere.”222 As such, colleges
that have extended admissions offers under ED only to discover the
prospective student applied ED to more than one school may even
withdraw their offers.

Michele Hernandez, a former assistant director of admissions at
Dartmouth and author of A is for Admission, explains that colleges do not
routinely share student information.

The only information that is shared among all highly selective
colleges is a list of those students accepted early decision or early
action, because of the commitment on the student’s part to honor
the agreement. When Dartmouth finishes its final decisions for
the early-decision applicants, it mails a list to the Ivies and several
other highly selective colleges . . . so that systems technicians can
run the names through the computer and check to see if anyone
who is already committed to attending Dartmouth has applied
early action or early decision somewhere else. Most of the other
colleges would do the same, thereby making sure that students
follow the rules.223

Dartmouth is far from alone in this practice. As many as fifty colleges
engage in sharing ED information.224 “Early Decision colleges practice this
form of reciprocity for self-protection.”225 The authors of The Early
Decision Game even hypothesize that “[i]t is conceivable that courts would
find the sharing of lists of accepted ED applicants to be collusive and illegal.
There have been no court cases on this matter, and the legal scholars we
consulted disagreed about the legality of the practice.”226

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know of someone who broke it. That school put the word out and other schools revoked their offers. Kid did their first year at the local community college.

Didn't happen. No way the colleges are organized enough or willing to spend the time to contact the other schools.

Oh, but it did happen and DOJ opened an investigation a few years ago. Probably nothing happening with DOJ at this point, but the colleges were warned.

https://www.gazettenet.com/amherst-college-is-part-of-federal-probe-16803518

dean of admission and financial aid at Amherst College — in a 2016 U.S. & World News Report article titled

“[Fretwell] says her school and about 30 other colleges share lists of students admitted through early decision,” that article reads. “And Fretwell says she’d likely also share the names of students who were admitted via early decision, but who are not attending for financial aid and other reasons.”

Allocating customers and not competing for customers are textbook anti trust violations. Those cases would be far easier than trying to argue about installed software with search engine preferences. Any one want to bet on whether or not they still share information?

See my post below (9:26). They are still sharing information. The DOJ closed the investigation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know of someone who broke it. That school put the word out and other schools revoked their offers. Kid did their first year at the local community college.

Didn't happen. No way the colleges are organized enough or willing to spend the time to contact the other schools.

Oh, but it did happen and DOJ opened an investigation a few years ago. Probably nothing happening with DOJ at this point, but the colleges were warned.

https://www.gazettenet.com/amherst-college-is-part-of-federal-probe-16803518

dean of admission and financial aid at Amherst College — in a 2016 U.S. & World News Report article titled

“[Fretwell] says her school and about 30 other colleges share lists of students admitted through early decision,” that article reads. “And Fretwell says she’d likely also share the names of students who were admitted via early decision, but who are not attending for financial aid and other reasons.”

DP: +1 Yes, it is a practice.

If interested in more information about the legality of early decision see: https://open.mitchellhamline.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1300&context=mhlr

"Andrew Belasco, Ph.D and chief executive officer of College
Transitions, also acknowledges that “there are groups of colleges that share
lists of early decision acceptances. ‘If a student backs out of an agreement
and attempts to apply to a college within this group, it is very unlikely that
they will be admitted.’”219

The understanding between the schools is that the other schools
will withdraw those students accepted elsewhere from their applicant
pools.221 “Even without legal ramifications, bowing out of an ED acceptance
can hurt [a student’s] chances of acceptance elsewhere.”222 As such, colleges
that have extended admissions offers under ED only to discover the
prospective student applied ED to more than one school may even
withdraw their offers.

Michele Hernandez, a former assistant director of admissions at
Dartmouth and author of A is for Admission, explains that colleges do not
routinely share student information.

The only information that is shared among all highly selective
colleges is a list of those students accepted early decision or early
action, because of the commitment on the student’s part to honor
the agreement. When Dartmouth finishes its final decisions for
the early-decision applicants, it mails a list to the Ivies and several
other highly selective colleges . . . so that systems technicians can
run the names through the computer and check to see if anyone
who is already committed to attending Dartmouth has applied
early action or early decision somewhere else. Most of the other
colleges would do the same, thereby making sure that students
follow the rules.223

Dartmouth is far from alone in this practice. As many as fifty colleges
engage in sharing ED information.224 “Early Decision colleges practice this
form of reciprocity for self-protection.”225 The authors of The Early
Decision Game even hypothesize that “[i]t is conceivable that courts would
find the sharing of lists of accepted ED applicants to be collusive and illegal.
There have been no court cases on this matter, and the legal scholars we
consulted disagreed about the legality of the practice.”226

If you look at the sources for a footnotes, the 223 note cites a 1997 article and 225 and 226 cite a book published in 2003. The DoJ settled another investigation with the National Association for College Admission Counseling in 2019 and part of that settlement related to ED and recruitment rules for students accepted at other schools. For a long time colleges seemed to think they were immune from antitrust law. I don't think they would act that way any more. A kid who backed out of a Dartmouth ED and then had a Harvard RD decision pulled could easily subpoena that list. What is 3x the value of a Harvard degree?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know of someone who broke it. That school put the word out and other schools revoked their offers. Kid did their first year at the local community college.

Didn't happen. No way the colleges are organized enough or willing to spend the time to contact the other schools.

Oh, but it did happen and DOJ opened an investigation a few years ago. Probably nothing happening with DOJ at this point, but the colleges were warned.

https://www.gazettenet.com/amherst-college-is-part-of-federal-probe-16803518

dean of admission and financial aid at Amherst College — in a 2016 U.S. & World News Report article titled

“[Fretwell] says her school and about 30 other colleges share lists of students admitted through early decision,” that article reads. “And Fretwell says she’d likely also share the names of students who were admitted via early decision, but who are not attending for financial aid and other reasons.”

Allocating customers and not competing for customers are textbook anti trust violations. Those cases would be far easier than trying to argue about installed software with search engine preferences. Any one want to bet on whether or not they still share information?

See my post below (9:26). They are still sharing information. The DOJ closed the investigation.

Do you have anything current? Your article cites sources that predate the investigation by more than a decade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know of someone who broke it. That school put the word out and other schools revoked their offers. Kid did their first year at the local community college.

Didn't happen. No way the colleges are organized enough or willing to spend the time to contact the other schools.

Oh, but it did happen and DOJ opened an investigation a few years ago. Probably nothing happening with DOJ at this point, but the colleges were warned.

https://www.gazettenet.com/amherst-college-is-part-of-federal-probe-16803518

dean of admission and financial aid at Amherst College — in a 2016 U.S. & World News Report article titled

“[Fretwell] says her school and about 30 other colleges share lists of students admitted through early decision,” that article reads. “And Fretwell says she’d likely also share the names of students who were admitted via early decision, but who are not attending for financial aid and other reasons.”

Allocating customers and not competing for customers are textbook anti trust violations. Those cases would be far easier than trying to argue about installed software with search engine preferences. Any one want to bet on whether or not they still share information?

See my post below (9:26). They are still sharing information. The DOJ closed the investigation.

Do you have anything current? Your article cites sources that predate the investigation by more than a decade

Yes, but the article is from 2022. I checked my academic databases and cross-checked DOJ. That is the latest information and the DOJ did drop the investigation. They decided to go after NACAC for violating antitrust rules and settled.

I'm in higher ed, and I know at least 2 R1 universities that are sharing this information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know of someone who broke it. That school put the word out and other schools revoked their offers. Kid did their first year at the local community college.

Didn't happen. No way the colleges are organized enough or willing to spend the time to contact the other schools.

Oh, but it did happen and DOJ opened an investigation a few years ago. Probably nothing happening with DOJ at this point, but the colleges were warned.

https://www.gazettenet.com/amherst-college-is-part-of-federal-probe-16803518

dean of admission and financial aid at Amherst College — in a 2016 U.S. & World News Report article titled

“[Fretwell] says her school and about 30 other colleges share lists of students admitted through early decision,” that article reads. “And Fretwell says she’d likely also share the names of students who were admitted via early decision, but who are not attending for financial aid and other reasons.”

Allocating customers and not competing for customers are textbook anti trust violations. Those cases would be far easier than trying to argue about installed software with search engine preferences. Any one want to bet on whether or not they still share information?

See my post below (9:26). They are still sharing information. The DOJ closed the investigation.

Do you have anything current? Your article cites sources that predate the investigation by more than a decade

Yes, but the article is from 2022. I checked my academic databases and cross-checked DOJ. That is the latest information and the DOJ did drop the investigation. They decided to go after NACAC for violating antitrust rules and settled.

I'm in higher ed, and I know at least 2 R1 universities that are sharing this information.

The they should have been able to find recent sources if the practice still exists

[Anonymous]

Far more families feel locked in (and colleges don’t dissuade) than back out.

People backing out if very small.

Down w ED. You can back out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know of someone who broke it. That school put the word out and other schools revoked their offers. Kid did their first year at the local community college.

Didn't happen. No way the colleges are organized enough or willing to spend the time to contact the other schools.

Oh, but it did happen and DOJ opened an investigation a few years ago. Probably nothing happening with DOJ at this point, but the colleges were warned.

https://www.gazettenet.com/amherst-college-is-part-of-federal-probe-16803518

dean of admission and financial aid at Amherst College — in a 2016 U.S. & World News Report article titled

“[Fretwell] says her school and about 30 other colleges share lists of students admitted through early decision,” that article reads. “And Fretwell says she’d likely also share the names of students who were admitted via early decision, but who are not attending for financial aid and other reasons.”

Allocating customers and not competing for customers are textbook anti trust violations. Those cases would be far easier than trying to argue about installed software with search engine preferences. Any one want to bet on whether or not they still share information?

See my post below (9:26). They are still sharing information. The DOJ closed the investigation.

Do you have anything current? Your article cites sources that predate the investigation by more than a decade

Yes, but the article is from 2022. I checked my academic databases and cross-checked DOJ. That is the latest information and the DOJ did drop the investigation. They decided to go after NACAC for violating antitrust rules and settled.

I'm in higher ed, and I know at least 2 R1 universities that are sharing this information.

The they should have been able to find recent sources if the practice still exists

The DOJ opened the investigation in 2018 and settled with NACAC in 2019. The legal review is arguing that that ED is still a problem and not legally binding. To date, the legality hasn't been determined and there are no new cases challenging the practice. The DOJ didn't ask the 30 schools to stop the practice--only to provide information.

There is no evidence that they stopped this practice. Why should they if the DOJ dropped the investigation? Anyway, I have no way of proving that it is still happening, so believe what you want.

[Anonymous]

Would a public school counselor really refuse to send a final transcript to a non-ED school? Would the counselor even be notified of acceptance to ED school ?

My DS graduated from an MCPS school and was accepted to college ED. He had to request his final transcript for his ED school. The school did not know he had been admitted. I am pretty certain that the counselor would’ve sent the transcript to whichever school he put down on the form.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would a public school counselor really refuse to send a final transcript to a non-ED school? Would the counselor even be notified of acceptance to ED school ?

My DS graduated from an MCPS school and was accepted to college ED. He had to request his final transcript for his ED school. The school did not know he had been admitted. I am pretty certain that the counselor would’ve sent the transcript to whichever school he put down on the form.

The counselor has to digitally sign the ED agreement in order for your kid’s application to be accepted . They most certainly are are aware of where your kid applied ED

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would a public school counselor really refuse to send a final transcript to a non-ED school? Would the counselor even be notified of acceptance to ED school ?

My DS graduated from an MCPS school and was accepted to college ED. He had to request his final transcript for his ED school. The school did not know he had been admitted. I am pretty certain that the counselor would’ve sent the transcript to whichever school he put down on the form.

The counselor has to digitally sign the ED agreement in order for your kid’s application to be accepted . They most certainly are are aware of where your kid applied ED

DP. The counselor doesn't receive the decision from the ED school. Kid could just say they were denied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would a public school counselor really refuse to send a final transcript to a non-ED school? Would the counselor even be notified of acceptance to ED school ?

My DS graduated from an MCPS school and was accepted to college ED. He had to request his final transcript for his ED school. The school did not know he had been admitted. I am pretty certain that the counselor would’ve sent the transcript to whichever school he put down on the form.

The counselor has to digitally sign the ED agreement in order for your kid’s application to be accepted . They most certainly are are aware of where your kid applied ED

Our school has a portal where kids request transcripts. Counselors aren't involved

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would a public school counselor really refuse to send a final transcript to a non-ED school? Would the counselor even be notified of acceptance to ED school ?

My DS graduated from an MCPS school and was accepted to college ED. He had to request his final transcript for his ED school. The school did not know he had been admitted. I am pretty certain that the counselor would’ve sent the transcript to whichever school he put down on the form.

The counselor has to digitally sign the ED agreement in order for your kid’s application to be accepted . They most certainly are are aware of where your kid applied ED

Our school has a portal where kids request transcripts. Counselors aren't involved

Someone likely approves the request. They do at our school even with automated systems.