Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear Prof,

I have been working on these and other skills for years with my ADHD/ASD kid.

He will mess up, despite being explicitly taught these things. He's in contact with the disability office and has already asked you for his extended time.

He had high stats and is an academic, intellectual person, which is why your place of employment accepted him. Sorry, but he's always going to be an absent-minded professor type, and his brain is somewhere in the vicinity of Pluto most of the time.

And you know who it hurts most? Not you. HIM. He is destined to go through life with ADHD and ASD and all his social quirks. You've only got to suffer him for your class. He has to suffer himself for life.

Best regards,

Mom.

Oh FFS stop using their disabilities like a crutch. The professor is right and if your poor addled ADHD kids you have probably hovered over and made excuses for and bulldozed a path for over the years can’t meet basic expectations, you failed them.

dp.. obviously, people with ADHD have a harder time, but seriously, you cannot keep using this crutch into the workplace. Your boss won't care that you miss deadlines, and your coworkers won't care if you have adhd when you smell so badly no one wants to be in the conference room with you.

I often wonder what the plan is for all these SNs college grads. Do you steer them into becoming a CPA or actuary or computer programmer, etc. where they perhaps don't have to interact much with clients/customers? I mean the descriptions seem to indicate they have real problems functioning in the world.

No, my ADHD/anxiety/no EF kid got out of HS with a 3.5UW, went to a T100 school. Started as a premed/PT major and quickly learned that was not going to work. Had to learn how to go to all the extra session, talk to profs and decide when to drop the course for a W and figure out how to try and stay on track for their program. Then had to ultimately come to the self realization that the major/career path they desired might not work out for them, so had to deal with that and try to figure out what they wanted to major in. For my ADHD kid, this all came to a head in March of Freshman year when at 9pm the night before they needed to register for Fall sophomore year courses (10am registration slot). it was a 3+ hour phone call with them to let them vent and discuss and make "suggestions" and help them come and accept that their dream career wasn't going to happen---they just couldn't hack the science and memorization (medical field) and intensity of that---it's gut wrenching to have to help your kid come to that realization (they feel stupid and worthless when they've wanted to do this for years). So you talk to them and help them realize figure out the next steps.
Then since registration is at 10am, you help them map out what they need to do to switch majors and try to get into the courses they need for their new major (finance/business so they are a full year behind the intro courses and want to graduate in 4 years).

My kid was up, prepared and waiting at 7:55am for the first office to open at 8am. Got guidance from the "gatekeeper" for his original major for how to undeclared with them and then moved onto the business school "gatekeeper" and successfully registered for courses they needed at 10am.
It's was stressful but they did it.
It's a huge accomplishment when you are doing all of this all while feeling like your are worthless and "can't do anything right".
Notice, I didn't do any of it. I simply worked with my kid to make sure they knew everything they might need to do so they wouldn't get screwed up and not get classes.
Now my next kid, I have never had to do any of that, not since MS. They are self motivated, organized, no EF at all (probably have near photographic memory and extremely smart where everything comes easy to them). With them college is a different experience....there is not making sure they are on the right track or anything like that. They manage everything themselves...but they do not have ADHD.

Am trying to imagine how a kid gets to college thinking medical school is a viable option, based on their academic abilities. Did you seriously believe your child had realistic expectations for medical school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dear Prof,

I have been working on these and other skills for years with my ADHD/ASD kid.

He will mess up, despite being explicitly taught these things. He's in contact with the disability office and has already asked you for his extended time.

He had high stats and is an academic, intellectual person, which is why your place of employment accepted him. Sorry, but he's always going to be an absent-minded professor type, and his brain is somewhere in the vicinity of Pluto most of the time.

And you know who it hurts most? Not you. HIM. He is destined to go through life with ADHD and ASD and all his social quirks. You've only got to suffer him for your class. He has to suffer himself for life.

Best regards,

Mom.

Generally speaking, when you feel the need to bring up and highlight your kid’s special circumstance as the exception—then it’s safe to assume the original post was not really directed at you.

That said, this would be its own helpful post as a stand alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter had her first job at the age of 14 and needed to interact with her supervisors via email. At that time, we figured out that she doesn’t know how to write emails properly, and I trained her. For a couple of years, she asked me to look at the drafts of her emails for supervisors and teachers, and I provided comments. When she started college, she called me one day and thanked for teaching her how to write emails because she realized how many college students (her friends) don’t know how to do so, and she was teaching them.

This sort of work communication doesn't happen so much in service jobs though....

DD typically exchanged emails about her work schedule. Since it was a part time job, they sometimes asked to work additional hours or she had to ask to reschedule or take a day off because of some tournaments or school events. It just helped to understand that she indeed had no idea regarding a typical structure of the email and how professional and concise it’s supposed to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College professor year. I've been a professor for 24 years and every year it's worse! Parents please try to nix these behaviors in your HS kids before they go to college AND teach them a few basic life skills. I promise spending some time on these will ensure your kid has a better experience in college and in life.

Behaviors to nix:
1. Asking a question instead of looking at the syllabus or, frankly, using google. I can't tell you how many times a lazy kid will ask me something in class that is on the syllabus, and/or I've said repeatedly in class, and/or has nothing to do with the class that they could easily figure out on their own. It all comes down to pure LAZINESS.

2. Give your kid consequences for bad behavior like being disrespectful, being late, talking during class, getting up and stomping out of the classroom, anything like that. These kids today are clearly being raised without consequence.

3. Have your kid practice sending you and email, with you being the professor. Make sure they know how to properly address the person. Make sure they know how to type full sentences and make their question clear.

I routinely get emails like this:

Yo, whats on the test and do I need to read the textbook please let me know right away.

Notice that they 1) don't identify what class they are referring to, they don't really have a question I can answer, and they clearly didn't spend much time thinking about or writing the email. I usually just ignore this or send a quick reply to refer to the syllabus.

4) Do NOT, and I mean do NOT, tell them that if they have an issue with a professor that they should call you (the parent) and let you (the parent) contact the professor. I don't care who you are, there's this law called FERPA which means I can't discuss your kid's academic record unless they are present and have given permission to do so. Furthermore, I like to treat your kid as an adult and you probably should too.

I could go on but I won't.

Now for essential life skills:

A. For god's sakes teach them how to do laundry and have basic pride in their personal cleanliness. I can't tell you how many times some kid walks into my office stinking to high heaven and wearing clothes that look like they haven't been washed for weeks. Now I would normally think perhaps they struggle financially but when they whip out their iphone 14 or 15 and talk to with me airpods in, it makes me think they probably can afford to do laundry. They just don't and/or they don't know how.

B. How to set an alarm clock. Every quarter some kid misses an exam because they slept in and then they get mad when I won't let them take a makeup exam.

C. Same thing with how to use a calendar and write down important dates.

D. Finally, tell them to take out their airpods and put their phone down when speaking to someone. It's really disrespectful when a kid comes to my office and won't even lift their head up from their phone.

You probably shouldn't be lobbing allegations of "disrespectful" with a post like yours. While I would agree with most, if not all, of what you say, it gets lost in the smug superiority of the tone. And the implication that kids have not dealt with many (not all) of the things listed above since . . . forever.

And, furthermore, I'd look at your own practices and policies. I've had professors do unbelievable cruel things to students. I've seem them be completely and utterly incompetent, as well as disorganized. Unless you're perfect, maybe show a little bit of respect and grace for the students and parents (esp of first years) who are dealing with an overwhelming, sometimes emotional, and expensive time in their lives. Some may be disrespectful. Others are just keeping their heads above water. Maybe recognize that.

OMG. This is the problem. People think their kids are fine.

Prof, I am curious - can you tell us roughly what type of institution you’re at?

I'm not the problem. My kid is in HS and communicating with adults all the time. Advocates for herself. And is the model for what this professor seems to want. So, cool it with your assumptions.

The Professor's OP was rude. And not all that helpful.

Blame the messenger rather than admit you did an imperfect job of raising your impolite kid.

NP posting in support of OP, even though it was a bit of a hostile venting since no one asked.

But I can definitely vouch for the fact that my husband and my brother (both professors at universities in different states) have routinely received emails from students that begin “yo” or “Hey dude” or “What’s up?”

So I think at minimum it’s not a bad idea to teach students about appropriate salutations of “Dear Sir” or “Hello Professor Smith,”.
Usually students are emailing to ask for some sort of consideration or favor, so it doesn’t hurt to strike the right tone.

[Anonymous]

Where my dc works they just had their one year anniversary. One of those firms that brings in a large college graduate class each summer. A bunch were let go prior to or on their anniversary date. From what dc said, they didn’t steal from the company or sell secrets, they just couldn’t get it. Came to work late, worthless email etiquette, drinking heavily at work sponsored events. Dc said some were counseled throughout the year but never changed their behavior. The OP’s post, this is what happens to these kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another professor here.

Disagree strongly with your email etiquette gripe. Not all kids have the benefit of being born into a family or attending a high school that conveys these skills. As educators, yes, even college educators with precious research agendas, it's our job to convey knowledge but also soft skills. Or at least point students in the right direction and have tolerance and empathy as they learn. It sounds like you teach Freshmen, so you especially should temper the expectation that all students arrive on campus "polished."

Honestly, it's annoying when students are rude and lacking any motivation. But unless every single student you teach is privileged, which how could you know that?, have some empathy and patience and don't assume the worst and be a positive force. Take 5 minutes to talk about these things to get everyone up to speed. THEN you can complain. But asking parents to teach this stuff so you don't have to is ignorant to the fact that not all parents can.

Rant over!

It does not require "privilege" to learn proper email etiquette. This information is now freely available on the internet. Nor does it require "privilege" to have good manners and high motivation. In fact, those without privilege should be even more highly motivated to learn manners and work hard so they can escape their un-privileged condition despite having parents who "can't" teach manners and motivation. Enough with the weaksauce excuses.

If you are not motivated, what are you even doing in college? Just checking the box?

Honestly I’m conflicted about my reaction to this poster’s snarky response.

On one hand it comes across as entirely tone deaf. But on the other hand it points out how awkward it is when people are trying so hard to be sensitive to privilege only to go off the deep end up reinforcing a sense of one’s own superiority. It’s obnoxious to assume that just because you didnt grow up steeped in privilege means you lack the intelligence and/or savvy to read the room and figure out what’s needed to get ahead. TV shows exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College professor year. I've been a professor for 24 years and every year it's worse! Parents please try to nix these behaviors in your HS kids before they go to college AND teach them a few basic life skills. I promise spending some time on these will ensure your kid has a better experience in college and in life.

To hell with my son’s professors and any attitude any of you have.

Many of you teachers and professors simply don’t deserve good, serious students because you are not serious teachers.

My son is the most sober, rule-abiding person who ever lived

I don’t know how he behaves in class, but he has handled all admissions processes since junior high, turned in every assignment on time, wrestled group project partners into doing their work, become a fervent policer of citation style rules, and attended every class, other than when he was sick with COVID.

He ends up being enthusiastic about any paper or other project he does.

He hasn’t had a teacher who’s marked up a paper for spelling and punctuation since about third grade.

Since he left grade school, his teachers and professors (who have all been at highly regarded schools with no serious discipline or student achievement problems) have never stuck to their grading timelines, even though they’ve barely given him feedback.

Half of his high school teachers used upside down learning as an excuse not to teach anything, at any point.

When my son had bad COVID and wanted to follow the isolation rules, the university went out of its way to scare him before finally letting him not infect everyone else with COVID.

So, sure, it’s hard to be a teacher, and it’s hard to be a professor. But, on the whole, in my experience, you folks aren’t any better when compared with 1980s professors than today’s students are when compared with 1980s students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College professor year. I've been a professor for 24 years and every year it's worse! Parents please try to nix these behaviors in your HS kids before they go to college AND teach them a few basic life skills. I promise spending some time on these will ensure your kid has a better experience in college and in life.

To hell with my son’s professors and any attitude any of you have.

Many of you teachers and professors simply don’t deserve good, serious students because you are not serious teachers.

My son is the most sober, rule-abiding person who ever lived

I don’t know how he behaves in class, but he has handled all admissions processes since junior high, turned in every assignment on time, wrestled group project partners into doing their work, become a fervent policer of citation style rules, and attended every class, other than when he was sick with COVID.

He ends up being enthusiastic about any paper or other project he does.

He hasn’t had a teacher who’s marked up a paper for spelling and punctuation since about third grade.

Since he left grade school, his teachers and professors (who have all been at highly regarded schools with no serious discipline or student achievement problems) have never stuck to their grading timelines, even though they’ve barely given him feedback.

Half of his high school teachers used upside down learning as an excuse not to teach anything, at any point.

When my son had bad COVID and wanted to follow the isolation rules, the university went out of its way to scare him before finally letting him not infect everyone else with COVID.

So, sure, it’s hard to be a teacher, and it’s hard to be a professor. But, on the whole, in my experience, you folks aren’t any better when compared with 1980s professors than today’s students are when compared with 1980s students.

So, in other words, OP wasn't talking about your kid. And you're almost certainly not talking about OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Professors are exhausting.

Sorry you have to teach in addition to your research nobody will ever read.

If they need to learn something, guess what.., you’re a teacher, teach them.

I think professors should have to work in the real world instead of being in their lame academia bubble.

If professors took the time to talk to every student about every breach of common courtesy/common sense, they would have no time left for doing what they're being paid to do.

Maybe there ought to be a remedial one-credit 'how to be a college student' class that college instructors can mandate for students who consistently show that they don't have the skills they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our company has an MOU with a university which means we get a lot of interns, including short-term interns who are doing the work for credit as a experiential portion of a class. These latter often have a very wide range of behavior/soft skills. This prof is giving good advice--it's sort of astonishing how hard parents work to get their kid into a good college, but don't focus as much on relatively easier basics which will make it more likely they are successful with work and will get a good recommendation. The vast majority of interns are academically/intellectually strong enough--what differentiates them is not who is more brilliant, but who is reliable, basically self-aware and can pick up on the very basics of code-switching (i.e. you don't talk to your clients or boss the way you talk to your friends). There are some students that I can tell are likely competent and probably just need to grow up a bit, but I'm not going to put my reputation on the line recommending them for further opportunities if they lack basic work etiquette and don't seem to pick it up in the short term intern class stint. So for some students the experiential learning stint leads to further opportunities and for others it closes the doors. And this is not a SN thing, in my experience many of the students on the spectrum/ADHD tend to work a bit more at this because they are often a little more nervous and so they are more careful to dress well, pay attention to the norms, try to be organized. They are likely to ask questions to confirm they are doing good work. It's the ones who think they have nothing they need to work on, who are blasé about the work, that are the ones who are often the most problematic. And they are killing their chances to get the strongest recommendations from their profs and short-term intern supervisors (the recommendation forms typically ask about intellectual skills and academic skills, and more soft skills/dispositions around social interactions/leadership/conscientiousness). And for those who thought private/public school background is a key factor--I don't think that's accurate. In my personal experiences, some of the biggest offenders are UMC young men--many of whom come from private HS--and the university we work with is a private school that tends to skew UMC. Maybe they are just confident they will have opportunities no matter what, but it seems a waste to me.

I like this survey that shows the number one and two things employers care about hiring straight out of college is internships and college jobs. Why? Then those doing the hiring don't have to waste time vetting whether the grads know how to be an employee!

Link is to essay where I found a brief explanation of the survey. Essay has link to full report, which is REALLY long (and pretty interesting).

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/page/5/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear Prof,

I have been working on these and other skills for years with my ADHD/ASD kid.

He will mess up, despite being explicitly taught these things. He's in contact with the disability office and has already asked you for his extended time.

He had high stats and is an academic, intellectual person, which is why your place of employment accepted him. Sorry, but he's always going to be an absent-minded professor type, and his brain is somewhere in the vicinity of Pluto most of the time.

And you know who it hurts most? Not you. HIM. He is destined to go through life with ADHD and ASD and all his social quirks. You've only got to suffer him for your class. He has to suffer himself for life.

Best regards,

Mom.

Oh FFS stop using their disabilities like a crutch. The professor is right and if your poor addled ADHD kids you have probably hovered over and made excuses for and bulldozed a path for over the years can’t meet basic expectations, you failed them.

dp.. obviously, people with ADHD have a harder time, but seriously, you cannot keep using this crutch into the workplace. Your boss won't care that you miss deadlines, and your coworkers won't care if you have adhd when you smell so badly no one wants to be in the conference room with you.

I agree that you cannot keep using those excuses forever, you have to learn to navigate life with the cards you are dealt. However, everyone knows that the human brain is not fully developed until 25-28 and if you have ADHD/EF issues (they go together) then you will "improve" and develop more coping skills as your brain more fully develops. Thus an 18yo who needs some guidance from their parents/others can easily develop into a fully functioning adult by age 24/25 if given the right tools. So those of us who helped our kids develop those tools in ES/MS/HS and begin to let them become more independent know that college is a huge change and that we need to help keep them on track. I'm not talking doing stuff for them, I'm talking about checking in, helping them Role play how to talk to a professor or the dept head or gate keeper about getting the classes they need/changing majors/getting tutoring and studying assistance/etc. Otherwise most kids will get into a funk and just spiral downward---we parents of ADHD/EF kids know that and our goal is to help them, not do it for them.

I have to say, given the number of people on here who complain about their ADHD spouses being utterly useless partners, I don’t know if it’s true that these kids will really “improve” at ages 25-28.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Professors are exhausting.

Sorry you have to teach in addition to your research nobody will ever read.

If they need to learn something, guess what.., you’re a teacher, teach them.

I think professors should have to work in the real world instead of being in their lame academia bubble.

Then who will teach your child? YOU?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter had her first job at the age of 14 and needed to interact with her supervisors via email. At that time, we figured out that she doesn’t know how to write emails properly, and I trained her. For a couple of years, she asked me to look at the drafts of her emails for supervisors and teachers, and I provided comments. When she started college, she called me one day and thanked for teaching her how to write emails because she realized how many college students (her friends) don’t know how to do so, and she was teaching them.

+1 yep, my DC did this, too. "Mom, can you review this email.." I'd point out where things were not clear.

Tell your kids to not speak to an adult, especially an authority figure, like they are their friends. That is not a difficult thing to teach. It just needs reminding. Model the behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Professors are exhausting.

Sorry you have to teach in addition to your research nobody will ever read.

If they need to learn something, guess what.., you’re a teacher, teach them.

I think professors should have to work in the real world instead of being in their lame academia bubble.

They are paid to teach academic subjects, not how to turn your alarm clock on or do your laundry.

You're very defensive. Why don't you parent your kid rather than expecting a stranger to do it.

good grief.

[Anonymous]

OP, I’m a staff member at a university, so I’ve seen a lot of exceptional student behavior, and a lot of entitled/inept student behavior.

My question to you are: why are you, at this point, blaming the parents for the behavior you see in 18+ college students?

When I was in college, I occasionally skipped class, I definitely didn’t study hard enough, and I flubbed the start time of two finals. I once tried to engage the “help” of government and politics faculty members because of essentially a phishing scheme related to human rights violations. (It was the early days of the Internet, but…cringe!)

I had some growing up to do. On my own. That’s…rather the point of college.

My parents didn’t fail to tell me to go to every class, they didn’t fail to raise me to set alarm clocks, they didn’t fail to teach me how to use calendars and budget my time and check syllabi and read through instructions, etc. They didn’t fail to tell me not to drink too much, and to stay with friends and stay safe and not walk alone, etc., etc.

I didn’t follow every rule, guideline, and bit of advice they gave me. Did you?

I agree with you that parents should never be in contact with faculty/staff/administration/RAs unless there is some actual emergency. But other than that, your finger-wagging at parents for their college students not being fully-formed, fully responsible adults is just…way off-base.