Woman raped and robbed on northwest branch trail

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can add hiking alone to the list of things women can't do without the risk of being raped and killed.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arrest-made-in-murder-of-north-phoenix-hiker-pd

It's been on that list as long as I've been alive and I am 55.

The victim had a buddy with her, and that didn't even help. I don't think men understand how much energy it takes to watch out for your personal safety 24/7.

This +100.

I go out walking alone in my neighborhood, and on trails with my teenage son. Even with another person, who is a male, I still go through all the what-ifs as I think about where we are going, parking, what day, time of day, etc. These are things that do not cross his mind. For instance, when he goes out on a desolate miles long walk with a friend or even alone along the Crescent Trail into DC (certain parts on quite empty on spring or summer weekdays). I've pointed out to him that as a male, should he come up on or pass a lone female walker/runner to do so with much space and speed, so as not to potentially frighten her.

Please don’t forget males are actually more likely to be victims of violent crime (not including domestic violence). Unfortunately everyone needs to be aware of their circumstances.

I’ve head that a lot but I’d be very interested in seeing the numbers for unprovoked or random crime. Men get into fights, and otherwise engage in activity that often provokes violence. But I think it’s much less commonly that they are walking down the street minding their own business and are assaulted.

I doubt there are separate statistics for ‘random crime’. Random crime, as horrific as it is, actually accounts for a relatively small proportion of crime. Don’t forget that most rape of females is perpetrated by a domestic partner or acquaintance.

Men are much more likely to be targeted by someone out looking for a fight. I wonder if they’re also more likely to square up to someone doing something wrong or to defend their property or resist a crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can add hiking alone to the list of things women can't do without the risk of being raped and killed.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arrest-made-in-murder-of-north-phoenix-hiker-pd

It's been on that list as long as I've been alive and I am 55.

The victim had a buddy with her, and that didn't even help. I don't think men understand how much energy it takes to watch out for your personal safety 24/7.

This +100.

I go out walking alone in my neighborhood, and on trails with my teenage son. Even with another person, who is a male, I still go through all the what-ifs as I think about where we are going, parking, what day, time of day, etc. These are things that do not cross his mind. For instance, when he goes out on a desolate miles long walk with a friend or even alone along the Crescent Trail into DC (certain parts on quite empty on spring or summer weekdays). I've pointed out to him that as a male, should he come up on or pass a lone female walker/runner to do so with much space and speed, so as not to potentially frighten her.

Please don’t forget males are actually more likely to be victims of violent crime (not including domestic violence). Unfortunately everyone needs to be aware of their circumstances.

I’ve head that a lot but I’d be very interested in seeing the numbers for unprovoked or random crime. Men get into fights, and otherwise engage in activity that often provokes violence. But I think it’s much less commonly that they are walking down the street minding their own business and are assaulted.

I doubt there are separate statistics for ‘random crime’. Random crime, as horrific as it is, actually accounts for a relatively small proportion of crime. Don’t forget that most rape of females is perpetrated by a domestic partner or acquaintance.

Men are much more likely to be targeted by someone out looking for a fight. I wonder if they’re also more likely to square up to someone doing something wrong or to defend their property or resist a crime.

I used consider myself someone who would square up if someone is doing something wrong, but not anymore. Too many cases of Good Samaritan’s convicted by cell phone camera.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I park my car on the street overnight, with valuables in plain sight and the doors unlocked and those items get stolen, I blame the thief.

Correct. The thief stole the stuff. No thief, no theft.

There are thieves. There will always be thieves. Why on earth would you leave your valuables in plain sight, in an unlocked car, when you know someone will steal them? That’s just stupid.

So don't do it.

I don’t. That’s the point. And I don’t get robbed when I bring my stuff inside. But if I left my stuff outside, in plain sight, knowing there are thieves, then c’mon - I’m either being deliberately obtuse or I’m an idiot.

And so therefore women should...what? Avoid being in public places, knowing there are rapists?

Common sense precautions. Don’t run on an isolated trail alone after dark. Don’t get drunk and leave a party with someone you don’t know. Don’t ever take a drink from someone when you haven’t seen them pour the drink. Stuff like that. Will this prevent 100% of all rapes? No. Will someone randomly get raped in broad daylight while walking down the street? Maybe. But I think throwing common sense precautions out the window makes no sense.

These were two women together, sober, in broad daylight.

That’s what I said in my post. It won’t thwart all rapes. They’re still going to happen. But I will do everything I can to lessen the chances.

Two women together, sober, in broad daylight, so you ... advise women not to run on an isolated trail after dark, don't get drunk and leave a party with someone they don't know, etc. etc. Why?

I have done a lot of things women are told not to do lest someone rape them, and not been raped. Why? Because there was no potential rapist on the scene. That's the determining factor.

I don’t want to argue. You can continue to do the things that I consider risky. I myself will not. To each his own.

Exactly. Everyone makes the decisions and takes the risks they consider appropriate, and when Person A attacks Person B, we place the full blame where it belongs: on Person A. Instead of focusing on the things Person B coulda shoulda done.

Correct. Given the prevalence of rape/sexual assault (et cetera) it would be great to see it treated as the public health catastrophe that it is. Teach boys and men not to rape. Very simple!

Because not realizing that it is unlawful, morally wrong and frankly despicable — that’s the problem.

Please.

I have come to realize that people who trot out the whole “teach boys not to rape” thing are seriously lacking critical thinking skills (and likely brain cells as well). It’s probably the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can add hiking alone to the list of things women can't do without the risk of being raped and killed.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arrest-made-in-murder-of-north-phoenix-hiker-pd

It's been on that list as long as I've been alive and I am 55.

The victim had a buddy with her, and that didn't even help. I don't think men understand how much energy it takes to watch out for your personal safety 24/7.

Men are victims of violence more than women. Spare us your martyrdom.

Let's see a breakdown of those numbers.

I bet we'd see that men are more likely to shoot each other, get in fights etc.

But they are not more likely to be the victims of stranger sexual assaults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can add hiking alone to the list of things women can't do without the risk of being raped and killed.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arrest-made-in-murder-of-north-phoenix-hiker-pd

It's been on that list as long as I've been alive and I am 55.

The victim had a buddy with her, and that didn't even help. I don't think men understand how much energy it takes to watch out for your personal safety 24/7.

This +100.

I go out walking alone in my neighborhood, and on trails with my teenage son. Even with another person, who is a male, I still go through all the what-ifs as I think about where we are going, parking, what day, time of day, etc. These are things that do not cross his mind. For instance, when he goes out on a desolate miles long walk with a friend or even alone along the Crescent Trail into DC (certain parts on quite empty on spring or summer weekdays). I've pointed out to him that as a male, should he come up on or pass a lone female walker/runner to do so with much space and speed, so as not to potentially frighten her.

Please don’t forget males are actually more likely to be victims of violent crime (not including domestic violence). Unfortunately everyone needs to be aware of their circumstances.

I’ve head that a lot but I’d be very interested in seeing the numbers for unprovoked or random crime. Men get into fights, and otherwise engage in activity that often provokes violence. But I think it’s much less commonly that they are walking down the street minding their own business and are assaulted.

I doubt there are separate statistics for ‘random crime’. Random crime, as horrific as it is, actually accounts for a relatively small proportion of crime. Don’t forget that most rape of females is perpetrated by a domestic partner or acquaintance.

Men are much more likely to be targeted by someone out looking for a fight. I wonder if they’re also more likely to square up to someone doing something wrong or to defend their property or resist a crime.

But that's what we are talking about here.

In this particular thread.

Random sexual and violent assaults of women who are out jogging or walking.

It may be "a relatively small proportion of crime" but a) it is not unusual and b) that is of cold comfort to the women who experience it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can add hiking alone to the list of things women can't do without the risk of being raped and killed.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arrest-made-in-murder-of-north-phoenix-hiker-pd

It's been on that list as long as I've been alive and I am 55.

The victim had a buddy with her, and that didn't even help. I don't think men understand how much energy it takes to watch out for your personal safety 24/7.

This +100.

I go out walking alone in my neighborhood, and on trails with my teenage son. Even with another person, who is a male, I still go through all the what-ifs as I think about where we are going, parking, what day, time of day, etc. These are things that do not cross his mind. For instance, when he goes out on a desolate miles long walk with a friend or even alone along the Crescent Trail into DC (certain parts on quite empty on spring or summer weekdays). I've pointed out to him that as a male, should he come up on or pass a lone female walker/runner to do so with much space and speed, so as not to potentially frighten her.

Please don’t forget males are actually more likely to be victims of violent crime (not including domestic violence). Unfortunately everyone needs to be aware of their circumstances.

I’ve head that a lot but I’d be very interested in seeing the numbers for unprovoked or random crime. Men get into fights, and otherwise engage in activity that often provokes violence. But I think it’s much less commonly that they are walking down the street minding their own business and are assaulted.

I doubt there are separate statistics for ‘random crime’. Random crime, as horrific as it is, actually accounts for a relatively small proportion of crime. Don’t forget that most rape of females is perpetrated by a domestic partner or acquaintance.

Men are much more likely to be targeted by someone out looking for a fight. I wonder if they’re also more likely to square up to someone doing something wrong or to defend their property or resist a crime.

So after this post I went and checked the fbi statistics and it turns out PP is using very old data. Starting in 2005, the number of violent crimes against men started to decrease while violent crimes against women increased. The gap narrowed until 2020, when women became more likely to be victims of violent crime. Men are still more likely to be victims of homicide but that is overall a very small proportion of violent crime—in every other category, women are now ahead. We are almost 10X as likely to be the victim of sexual assault. The homicide term includes self-defense killings, and some vehicular or other accidental deaths, so the fact that men are far more likely to engage in criminal conduct may be somewhat related to their higher rate of homicide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can add hiking alone to the list of things women can't do without the risk of being raped and killed.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arrest-made-in-murder-of-north-phoenix-hiker-pd

It's been on that list as long as I've been alive and I am 55.

The victim had a buddy with her, and that didn't even help. I don't think men understand how much energy it takes to watch out for your personal safety 24/7.

This +100.

I go out walking alone in my neighborhood, and on trails with my teenage son. Even with another person, who is a male, I still go through all the what-ifs as I think about where we are going, parking, what day, time of day, etc. These are things that do not cross his mind. For instance, when he goes out on a desolate miles long walk with a friend or even alone along the Crescent Trail into DC (certain parts on quite empty on spring or summer weekdays). I've pointed out to him that as a male, should he come up on or pass a lone female walker/runner to do so with much space and speed, so as not to potentially frighten her.

Please don’t forget males are actually more likely to be victims of violent crime (not including domestic violence). Unfortunately everyone needs to be aware of their circumstances.

I’ve head that a lot but I’d be very interested in seeing the numbers for unprovoked or random crime. Men get into fights, and otherwise engage in activity that often provokes violence. But I think it’s much less commonly that they are walking down the street minding their own business and are assaulted.

FBI crime data explorer. https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I park my car on the street overnight, with valuables in plain sight and the doors unlocked and those items get stolen, I blame the thief.

Correct. The thief stole the stuff. No thief, no theft.

There are thieves. There will always be thieves. Why on earth would you leave your valuables in plain sight, in an unlocked car, when you know someone will steal them? That’s just stupid.

So don't do it.

I don’t. That’s the point. And I don’t get robbed when I bring my stuff inside. But if I left my stuff outside, in plain sight, knowing there are thieves, then c’mon - I’m either being deliberately obtuse or I’m an idiot.

And so therefore women should...what? Avoid being in public places, knowing there are rapists?

Common sense precautions. Don’t run on an isolated trail alone after dark. Don’t get drunk and leave a party with someone you don’t know. Don’t ever take a drink from someone when you haven’t seen them pour the drink. Stuff like that. Will this prevent 100% of all rapes? No. Will someone randomly get raped in broad daylight while walking down the street? Maybe. But I think throwing common sense precautions out the window makes no sense.

These were two women together, sober, in broad daylight.

That’s what I said in my post. It won’t thwart all rapes. They’re still going to happen. But I will do everything I can to lessen the chances.

Two women together, sober, in broad daylight, so you ... advise women not to run on an isolated trail after dark, don't get drunk and leave a party with someone they don't know, etc. etc. Why?

I have done a lot of things women are told not to do lest someone rape them, and not been raped. Why? Because there was no potential rapist on the scene. That's the determining factor.

I don’t want to argue. You can continue to do the things that I consider risky. I myself will not. To each his own.

Exactly. Everyone makes the decisions and takes the risks they consider appropriate, and when Person A attacks Person B, we place the full blame where it belongs: on Person A. Instead of focusing on the things Person B coulda shoulda done.

Correct. Given the prevalence of rape/sexual assault (et cetera) it would be great to see it treated as the public health catastrophe that it is. Teach boys and men not to rape. Very simple!

Because not realizing that it is unlawful, morally wrong and frankly despicable — that’s the problem.

Please.

I have come to realize that people who trot out the whole “teach boys not to rape” thing are seriously lacking critical thinking skills (and likely brain cells as well). It’s probably the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.

Perhaps stupid when you are talking about this type of incident. But it is imperative to teach your sons about date rape. Believe it or not, a lot of men think sex is consensual if they are dating someone. Or met someone who is flirting. Teaching about consent is critical. Because in most sex assaults, the victim and perpetrator know each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not second guessing how these women reacted to be robbed at machete blade and one being dragged away. No one can say how they would react in that situation. I would like to think I would fight my hardest to avoid being dragged off or to stop a man from dragging my friend off. I'm going to have a talk with my hiking buddy and find out if she's willing to risk her life to save mine. I'd like to believe I would risk mine to save her.

When this thread first appeared, those of who said pretty much the same thing-fight back, do not let yourself get taken off that path--had our posts removed. Evidently, you can't even tell women to fight back now. I have no doubt in my mind that that man would never have gotten me off that trail if it were me. Of course, not blaming the victim, at all, but my husband and I have taught our teenage daughter how to defend herself and I know she would. With what the city is coming to, we have no choice.

It stinks, but women and girls have to think through how they'd react/ what length they are willing to go to to avoid being moved to a second location. I took a self defense class taught by police officers and they told the class 100% run, if you can, or fight to avoid being moved to another location. These women, and the one who was raped especially, are lucky to be alive. When a predator moves you, the risk of being murdered rises exponentially. I would rather die fighting than live with the aftermath of rape.

This thread is ridiculous and upsetting. As a women who has actually experienced an attempted stranger rape you and the pp have NO IDEA how you would react in this situation. The fact that the pp is so confident this wouldn’t have happened to her because of her ability to “fight back” is incredibly naive but I know it gives her comfort at night. It is naive because you truly can’t know how your brain and body will react. The strength of a prepared and determined man who is much physically larger than you is unfortunately quite a situation to contend with when completely caught off guard as a women.

Anyway I’m glad it gives you comfort I guess but the things you are saying to make yourself feel better hurt women in the end because it implies we have more control than we really do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not second guessing how these women reacted to be robbed at machete blade and one being dragged away. No one can say how they would react in that situation. I would like to think I would fight my hardest to avoid being dragged off or to stop a man from dragging my friend off. I'm going to have a talk with my hiking buddy and find out if she's willing to risk her life to save mine. I'd like to believe I would risk mine to save her.

When this thread first appeared, those of who said pretty much the same thing-fight back, do not let yourself get taken off that path--had our posts removed. Evidently, you can't even tell women to fight back now. I have no doubt in my mind that that man would never have gotten me off that trail if it were me. Of course, not blaming the victim, at all, but my husband and I have taught our teenage daughter how to defend herself and I know she would. With what the city is coming to, we have no choice.

It stinks, but women and girls have to think through how they'd react/ what length they are willing to go to to avoid being moved to a second location. I took a self defense class taught by police officers and they told the class 100% run, if you can, or fight to avoid being moved to another location. These women, and the one who was raped especially, are lucky to be alive. When a predator moves you, the risk of being murdered rises exponentially. I would rather die fighting than live with the aftermath of rape.

This thread is ridiculous and upsetting. As a women who has actually experienced an attempted stranger rape you and the pp have NO IDEA how you would react in this situation. The fact that the pp is so confident this wouldn’t have happened to her because of her ability to “fight back” is incredibly naive but I know it gives her comfort at night. It is naive because you truly can’t know how your brain and body will react. The strength of a prepared and determined man who is much physically larger than you is unfortunately quite a situation to contend with when completely caught off guard as a women.

Anyway I’m glad it gives you comfort I guess but the things you are saying to make yourself feel better hurt women in the end because it implies we have more control than we really do.

I guess what I’m saying is it is fine to think things in your own head about what you might do or how to do it or try to prepare yourself - we all do it. It is a necessary protective mechanism to live as a woman in our world and be able to go out each day and engage with life. I get it.

but it is offensive to post or say those things implying you would somehow have a better reaction or you would know what to do, out loud to others. If you truly don’t have the awareness to understand that each situation is unique and unfortunately you don’t know how you would respond in a life or death situation until you are in it, then the least you can do is keep your thoughts to yourself proclaiming how you would respond differently than two women attacked in broad daylight on a popular trail.

[Anonymous]

Woman**

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not second guessing how these women reacted to be robbed at machete blade and one being dragged away. No one can say how they would react in that situation. I would like to think I would fight my hardest to avoid being dragged off or to stop a man from dragging my friend off. I'm going to have a talk with my hiking buddy and find out if she's willing to risk her life to save mine. I'd like to believe I would risk mine to save her.

When this thread first appeared, those of who said pretty much the same thing-fight back, do not let yourself get taken off that path--had our posts removed. Evidently, you can't even tell women to fight back now. I have no doubt in my mind that that man would never have gotten me off that trail if it were me. Of course, not blaming the victim, at all, but my husband and I have taught our teenage daughter how to defend herself and I know she would. With what the city is coming to, we have no choice.

It stinks, but women and girls have to think through how they'd react/ what length they are willing to go to to avoid being moved to a second location. I took a self defense class taught by police officers and they told the class 100% run, if you can, or fight to avoid being moved to another location. These women, and the one who was raped especially, are lucky to be alive. When a predator moves you, the risk of being murdered rises exponentially. I would rather die fighting than live with the aftermath of rape.

This thread is ridiculous and upsetting. As a women who has actually experienced an attempted stranger rape you and the pp have NO IDEA how you would react in this situation. The fact that the pp is so confident this wouldn’t have happened to her because of her ability to “fight back” is incredibly naive but I know it gives her comfort at night. It is naive because you truly can’t know how your brain and body will react. The strength of a prepared and determined man who is much physically larger than you is unfortunately quite a situation to contend with when completely caught off guard as a women.

Anyway I’m glad it gives you comfort I guess but the things you are saying to make yourself feel better hurt women in the end because it implies we have more control than we really do.

He didn't rape you. How did you survive? I suspect it involved running, fighting and/or yelling for and receiving assistance. I will fight until my last breath.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not second guessing how these women reacted to be robbed at machete blade and one being dragged away. No one can say how they would react in that situation. I would like to think I would fight my hardest to avoid being dragged off or to stop a man from dragging my friend off. I'm going to have a talk with my hiking buddy and find out if she's willing to risk her life to save mine. I'd like to believe I would risk mine to save her.

When this thread first appeared, those of who said pretty much the same thing-fight back, do not let yourself get taken off that path--had our posts removed. Evidently, you can't even tell women to fight back now. I have no doubt in my mind that that man would never have gotten me off that trail if it were me. Of course, not blaming the victim, at all, but my husband and I have taught our teenage daughter how to defend herself and I know she would. With what the city is coming to, we have no choice.

It stinks, but women and girls have to think through how they'd react/ what length they are willing to go to to avoid being moved to a second location. I took a self defense class taught by police officers and they told the class 100% run, if you can, or fight to avoid being moved to another location. These women, and the one who was raped especially, are lucky to be alive. When a predator moves you, the risk of being murdered rises exponentially. I would rather die fighting than live with the aftermath of rape.

This thread is ridiculous and upsetting. As a women who has actually experienced an attempted stranger rape you and the pp have NO IDEA how you would react in this situation. The fact that the pp is so confident this wouldn’t have happened to her because of her ability to “fight back” is incredibly naive but I know it gives her comfort at night. It is naive because you truly can’t know how your brain and body will react. The strength of a prepared and determined man who is much physically larger than you is unfortunately quite a situation to contend with when completely caught off guard as a women.

Anyway I’m glad it gives you comfort I guess but the things you are saying to make yourself feel better hurt women in the end because it implies we have more control than we really do.

He didn't rape you. How did you survive? I suspect it involved running, fighting and/or yelling for and receiving assistance. I will fight until my last breath.

I can’t believe you’re fighting with me on this. Why are you assuming the women in this news story didn’t do those things? I’m truly confused. The reason I didn’t end up with a full on rape was mostly luck and I am not naive enough to recognize that but someone who has the gall to respond like that to someone who has actually experienced this is not someone I care to share my story with. it is also irrelevant because each situation is unique.

Your logical brain is not the same as your fight flight freeze brain. Please understand this. Your logical brain might say “I would rather be dead than deal with true aftermath of rape” That is all fine and well. It basically matters zilch when your fight flight freeze brain comes on and you are assessing a situation in .03 seconds. Your fight flight freeze brain might be pretty into protecting your life. And that may look differently than you expect. Have a little self reflection that you can’t be so black and white about something that hasn’t happened to you. Of course fighting is a piece of this puzzle but I am telling you, in that moment your brain is figuring out a complex equation and your ability to breathe and remain on this earth will usually be your brains first order of operations and it won’t be within your control necessarily. Lizard brain people.

Of course fight. No one is saying not to fight. Just saying have a little awareness that these situations aren’t like a movies and it might not be exactly like you imagine it in your head so approach with empathy first always and never judge a woman for how you perceive she reacted based on a news story. Come on.

[Anonymous]

I was raped by a close friend. I was frozen. I wish I would have fought back. I don’t know why I didn’t.

But after that, saying you can prevent rape feels childish to me. Any man CAN rape you if you are alone with him. And apparent a man can rape you if you are walking a public trail in broad daylight with a friend.

So wth are we supposed to do?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not second guessing how these women reacted to be robbed at machete blade and one being dragged away. No one can say how they would react in that situation. I would like to think I would fight my hardest to avoid being dragged off or to stop a man from dragging my friend off. I'm going to have a talk with my hiking buddy and find out if she's willing to risk her life to save mine. I'd like to believe I would risk mine to save her.

When this thread first appeared, those of who said pretty much the same thing-fight back, do not let yourself get taken off that path--had our posts removed. Evidently, you can't even tell women to fight back now. I have no doubt in my mind that that man would never have gotten me off that trail if it were me. Of course, not blaming the victim, at all, but my husband and I have taught our teenage daughter how to defend herself and I know she would. With what the city is coming to, we have no choice.

Yes you are.

Do you believe in taking any safety precautions at all?

Person responsible for the attack: the attacker
Person not responsible for the attack: the victim, no matter what safety precautions the victim may or may not have taken

Just because there things to be learned from this tragic experience for that victim doesn't mean anybody is saying she is "responsible" for being attacked. I think it's right to remind people that there are measures one should take, as guys like this are not getting locked up and this isn't going to stop. As women, we have to stop them.

As women, we get to make our own decisions about which measures we find effective and appropriate to take.

Also, when you make comments about things the women did that you think they shouldn't have done, or things they didn't do that you think they should have done, then you're blaming the victim(s).

I understand that what you've written is the modern day twist to safety measures, but it's teaching young women to think that safety measures aren't important when they actually are. We can all appreciate that there are circumstances in which we may get hurt regardless of what we try to do, but that shouldn't mean that talking about safety equates to victim blaming. It doesn't.

Correct. My dd is a runner and often runs alone. For a while she would not take any self-defense products on her runs, because ‘she should not have to because that’s not the world she wants to live in’. She now has changed her tune. If she got attacked, it’s 100% the attacker’s fault. That does not negate that women can do a lot to deter an attack/attacker. They are not mutually exclusive.