what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like a nightmare for schools. How are they going to cover teachers regularly being out for half a day? My kid has an IEP and the teachers are legally required to be present for the meetings, and it's hard enough to coordinate coverage for that.

No
Ma’am. They are required to give input.
Schools had better start offering work settings that mirror the work from home perks.

Teaching is by its nature not a flexible job. And teachers are usually free by 3:15 and all summer … not to mention three weeks of break during the school year.

I’m so tired of hearing this. That simply means that at 3:15, I can pick my own time to do the extra 4 hours of work I still have to get done that day. (Kind of like weekends. I still have to work 10-12 hours, but I can actually pick which hours. Lucky me.) And summers? I figure that’s my break for the 60-70 hour weeks I’ve been working all year. Summer is the only time I can take care of my own needs: my own appointments, my rare chance to get to the gym, etc.

Has teaching become less flexible since you began or are you jealous that work from home has become more popular recently?

I'm a legal aid lawyer, making $60,000 a year ( so no more than teachers). In some ways I have more flexibility than you (can work from home if I'm not in trial or meeting with clients). In other ways I have less flexibility (I have trials and client meetings year round and have to use limited PTO for winter and spring breaks). Like teachers, my clients don't always treat me well and I'm exposed to a lot of secondary trauma. But it's the job I chose and I'm not complaining. I don't understand why teachers see themselves as martyrs more than other professions.

You have all summer off and 3 weeks during the year. If you don’t like the schedule that’s fine, but unless schools are going to increase staff time or decrease instructional time, it’s not feasible to make the job “flexible.” Presumably you chose teaching for a reason rather than a desk job.

My reason was I wanted to teach, and I’m very, very good at it. I did not sign on to being a martyr, which we now expect of teachers.

I will be quitting, just like many of my coworkers. I shouldn’t be expected to work absurd hours because… summers off. Yes, there is a solution to this problem. Give me work time to get work done. Don’t demand the sacrifice of my nights and weekends.

Trying again without messing up the quotes.

Has teaching become less flexible since you began or are you jealous that work from home has become more popular recently?

I'm a legal aid lawyer, making $60,000 a year ( so no more than teachers). In some ways I have more flexibility than you (can work from home if I'm not in trial or meeting with clients). In other ways I have less flexibility (I have trials and client meetings year round and have to use limited PTO for winter and spring breaks). Like teachers, my clients don't always treat me well and I'm exposed to a lot of secondary trauma. But it's the job I chose and I'm not complaining. I don't understand why teachers see themselves as martyrs more than other professions.

Are your clients allowed to hit, kick, or spit on you without consequence?
Are you blamed for losing a case, to the point where your evaluation score gets docked so you may lose your job?
Do your clients miss appointments to brief and never make them up?
Does the building in which you work have mice/rats or roaches INSIDE?
Does your air/heat go out and take weeks or months to fix?
Are there gas leaks?
Do you have enough resources to make sure you can support your clients?
Can you take a sick day without being guilt tripped by your superior or facing backlash in your evaluation as a result?


I could go on but really I want to say STFU. No one ever said because teaching is hard that other professions cannot be difficult and unfair.
Schooling is legally required so the least DCPS could do is make sure job standards are competitive.

I am a special education teacher and I deserve to have summers off. The United States is behind and it's showing in our workforce and results. Get out with your 'pick yourself up by the bootstraps' mentality.

LOL! Talk to a public defender and get back to me.

LOL! You refuted nothing. 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lack of math hurts me.

I know. I'm a finance professional. There is some basic lack of understanding about how financial products work.

For example, teacher cited $15k more money as reason why her best friend was leaving for a new job. Subsequently says financial arguments are not effective. Subsequent to that indicated best friend will work 20 more years.

DCPS retirement plan indicates that those 20 more years would have been worth 40% of salary, or about $48,000 per year. Again, this is a perpetuity, but we can approximate with a twenty-year annuity. Buying a 20-year annuity paying $48,000 per year would cost around $750,000. Thus, teacher's best friend is giving up around $750,000+ in retirement benefits alone. She will likely qualify for new retirement benefits after vesting (probably 5 or 10 years at least). The retirement benefits she gains at the new job will be worth a small fraction of what she is giving up in not further accruing DCPS retirement benefits.

I don't doubt the health insurance will be almost as good in the private sector as in the public sector, as teacher relates. She doesn't relate, however, how much more in monthly premia she must pay to obtain these same benefits.

Math hurts. The lack of math hurts me even more.

Shes not at DCPS #1 (never said she was, I said she was at a highly sought-after PS system) and #2 shes going to a fed job.

I am surprised you feel so emboldened to make projections without all of the information but please continue with the math........

and its 15k THE FIRST YEAR. She's guaranteed pay raises, step increases, likely a grade increase, and COLAs. The most she can currently make as a teacher with a master's +30 is 107 and that's after 25 years so an additional 5 years. and then it doesn't increase after that except for COLAs.

Oooo, hate to tell you about the lack of fed pay increases. Also, the teacher pension is better than fed retirement.

But as you said, none of that matters so who cares, amirite.

DP.

It seems that you don’t want to accept that teachers have it bad right now. That pension only matters if a teacher can GET there.

I’m the one who quit after 14 years. Many of my former coworkers are working different jobs now, too. It isn’t that hard for teachers to find other employment.

If you are so determined to say teachers have it good, I encourage you to apply. There are tons of openings, and you don’t even need certification anymore in many districts.

I'm a different poster than the finance professional. I understand that teachers feel overwhelmed by their jobs, and I don't begrudge them complaining about it. I think it's fine that they leave if they don't like their jobs or the pay.

But also the PP is just wrong about Fed work. I hope PP's friend is happy as a Fed. It will help that she's already been shat on a lot, since that's kind of a lot of a Fed's existence.

[Anonymous]

Back to the point of the thread: It seems like 'flexible scheduling' largely involves less instructional time. This time may be replaced by other activities, but seemingly this requires other people to be employed.

The Council passed a bill, but who decides whether the bill will be funded?

Since apparently it is impossible to hire teachers, why is there a belief that more educational professionals could be hired?

What does less instructional time mean for students, if it is not replaced by something like intensive tutoring?

What does reduced school time mean for where students spend time? Where do they go at 1:30 on Wednesday if their parents work?

What sorts of parents can make a 4-day-work week 'work'?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like a nightmare for schools. How are they going to cover teachers regularly being out for half a day? My kid has an IEP and the teachers are legally required to be present for the meetings, and it's hard enough to coordinate coverage for that.

No
Ma’am. They are required to give input.
Schools had better start offering work settings that mirror the work from home perks.

Teaching is by its nature not a flexible job. And teachers are usually free by 3:15 and all summer … not to mention three weeks of break during the school year.

I’m so tired of hearing this. That simply means that at 3:15, I can pick my own time to do the extra 4 hours of work I still have to get done that day. (Kind of like weekends. I still have to work 10-12 hours, but I can actually pick which hours. Lucky me.) And summers? I figure that’s my break for the 60-70 hour weeks I’ve been working all year. Summer is the only time I can take care of my own needs: my own appointments, my rare chance to get to the gym, etc.

Has teaching become less flexible since you began or are you jealous that work from home has become more popular recently?

I'm a legal aid lawyer, making $60,000 a year ( so no more than teachers). In some ways I have more flexibility than you (can work from home if I'm not in trial or meeting with clients). In other ways I have less flexibility (I have trials and client meetings year round and have to use limited PTO for winter and spring breaks). Like teachers, my clients don't always treat me well and I'm exposed to a lot of secondary trauma. But it's the job I chose and I'm not complaining. I don't understand why teachers see themselves as martyrs more than other professions.

You have all summer off and 3 weeks during the year. If you don’t like the schedule that’s fine, but unless schools are going to increase staff time or decrease instructional time, it’s not feasible to make the job “flexible.” Presumably you chose teaching for a reason rather than a desk job.

My reason was I wanted to teach, and I’m very, very good at it. I did not sign on to being a martyr, which we now expect of teachers.

I will be quitting, just like many of my coworkers. I shouldn’t be expected to work absurd hours because… summers off. Yes, there is a solution to this problem. Give me work time to get work done. Don’t demand the sacrifice of my nights and weekends.

Trying again without messing up the quotes.

Has teaching become less flexible since you began or are you jealous that work from home has become more popular recently?

I'm a legal aid lawyer, making $60,000 a year ( so no more than teachers). In some ways I have more flexibility than you (can work from home if I'm not in trial or meeting with clients). In other ways I have less flexibility (I have trials and client meetings year round and have to use limited PTO for winter and spring breaks). Like teachers, my clients don't always treat me well and I'm exposed to a lot of secondary trauma. But it's the job I chose and I'm not complaining. I don't understand why teachers see themselves as martyrs more than other professions.

Are your clients allowed to hit, kick, or spit on you without consequence?
Are you blamed for losing a case, to the point where your evaluation score gets docked so you may lose your job?
Do your clients miss appointments to brief and never make them up?
Does the building in which you work have mice/rats or roaches INSIDE?
Does your air/heat go out and take weeks or months to fix?
Are there gas leaks?
Do you have enough resources to make sure you can support your clients?
Can you take a sick day without being guilt tripped by your superior or facing backlash in your evaluation as a result?


I could go on but really I want to say STFU. No one ever said because teaching is hard that other professions cannot be difficult and unfair.
Schooling is legally required so the least DCPS could do is make sure job standards are competitive.

I am a special education teacher and I deserve to have summers off. The United States is behind and it's showing in our workforce and results. Get out with your 'pick yourself up by the bootstraps' mentality.

LOL! Talk to a public defender and get back to me.

LOL! You refuted nothing. 🙄

Of course I did. You seem to be under the impression that no other jobs are difficult and inflexible. Many are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Back to the point of the thread: It seems like 'flexible scheduling' largely involves less instructional time. This time may be replaced by other activities, but seemingly this requires other people to be employed.

The Council passed a bill, but who decides whether the bill will be funded?

Since apparently it is impossible to hire teachers, why is there a belief that more educational professionals could be hired?

What does less instructional time mean for students, if it is not replaced by something like intensive tutoring?

What does reduced school time mean for where students spend time? Where do they go at 1:30 on Wednesday if their parents work?

What sorts of parents can make a 4-day-work week 'work'?

All good questions. Just wait for the replies: “Why do all these rich white wine mommies thing school is daycare? They’re just mad they have to interrupt their Peleton sessions to parent.”

[Anonymous]

I am a dcps teacher, really this argument is silly.

Teachers yes would like a few more sick days, thank you.

But really we want our already short 45 minute planning to be guaranteed and students come in at 8:40, unless in before care.

Technically we are supposed to have the mornings 2/5 days. It should be 4/5.


And really I’m confused why this forum doesn’t know IMPACT (our evaluation) is the #1 reason teachers leave dcps.
Then for sped it is because they really do not allow us to provide FAPE.

I REALLY don’t need a 4 day work week or virtual, I need my planning time, I don’t need to cover other classes, I need my TA. The council is just throwing teachers a bone. They better fix that para pay quickly or you’ll see even more ECE-K1 and self contained teachers quit. No support equals less learning.

[Anonymous]

More questions:

Would more time out of school exacerbate behavioral issues with kids in school?

Would more time out of school increase or decrease chronic absenteeism (linked to greater likelihood of committing crimes in DC)?

Why doesn't the DC Council bill call for the input from parents or students in the pilot programs?

When would the pilot programs be announced? Would it be enough time for people to switch schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a dcps teacher, really this argument is silly.

Teachers yes would like a few more sick days, thank you.

But really we want our already short 45 minute planning to be guaranteed and students come in at 8:40, unless in before care.

Technically we are supposed to have the mornings 2/5 days. It should be 4/5.


And really I’m confused why this forum doesn’t know IMPACT (our evaluation) is the #1 reason teachers leave dcps.
Then for sped it is because they really do not allow us to provide FAPE.

I REALLY don’t need a 4 day work week or virtual, I need my planning time, I don’t need to cover other classes, I need my TA. The council is just throwing teachers a bone. They better fix that para pay quickly or you’ll see even more ECE-K1 and self contained teachers quit. No support equals less learning.

yes. as a DCPS mom with an IEP kid: MORE planning time and MORE sped resources for you. I don’t think your union contract even protects your time for IEP meetings. the MCPS contract, as I recall, says that IEP meeting time is not supposed to come out of your planning time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a dcps teacher, really this argument is silly.

Teachers yes would like a few more sick days, thank you.

But really we want our already short 45 minute planning to be guaranteed and students come in at 8:40, unless in before care.

Technically we are supposed to have the mornings 2/5 days. It should be 4/5.


And really I’m confused why this forum doesn’t know IMPACT (our evaluation) is the #1 reason teachers leave dcps.
Then for sped it is because they really do not allow us to provide FAPE.

I REALLY don’t need a 4 day work week or virtual, I need my planning time, I don’t need to cover other classes, I need my TA. The council is just throwing teachers a bone. They better fix that para pay quickly or you’ll see even more ECE-K1 and self contained teachers quit. No support equals less learning.

The surveys of teachers don't list IMPACT as a reason why teachers leave DCPS. From uplink, this EmpowerEd report doesn't put doing anything to IMPACT in the top 10 solutions to them remaining in their job.

https://www.weareempowered.org/uploads/2/6/1/4/2614188/report_flexible_scheduling_for_schools.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a dcps teacher, really this argument is silly.

Teachers yes would like a few more sick days, thank you.

But really we want our already short 45 minute planning to be guaranteed and students come in at 8:40, unless in before care.

Technically we are supposed to have the mornings 2/5 days. It should be 4/5.


And really I’m confused why this forum doesn’t know IMPACT (our evaluation) is the #1 reason teachers leave dcps.
Then for sped it is because they really do not allow us to provide FAPE.

I REALLY don’t need a 4 day work week or virtual, I need my planning time, I don’t need to cover other classes, I need my TA. The council is just throwing teachers a bone. They better fix that para pay quickly or you’ll see even more ECE-K1 and self contained teachers quit. No support equals less learning.

I don't really think anyone doesn't support more paras, or better pay for paras. But it's not what teachers cite as what they need.

Has DC Council actually tried to do anything to get more paras?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Back to the point of the thread: It seems like 'flexible scheduling' largely involves less instructional time. This time may be replaced by other activities, but seemingly this requires other people to be employed.

The Council passed a bill, but who decides whether the bill will be funded?

Since apparently it is impossible to hire teachers, why is there a belief that more educational professionals could be hired?

What does less instructional time mean for students, if it is not replaced by something like intensive tutoring?

What does reduced school time mean for where students spend time? Where do they go at 1:30 on Wednesday if their parents work?

What sorts of parents can make a 4-day-work week 'work'?

There a quite a few charters who end early one day a week. I don’t have time to look, but what do parents do there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to the point of the thread: It seems like 'flexible scheduling' largely involves less instructional time. This time may be replaced by other activities, but seemingly this requires other people to be employed.

The Council passed a bill, but who decides whether the bill will be funded?

Since apparently it is impossible to hire teachers, why is there a belief that more educational professionals could be hired?

What does less instructional time mean for students, if it is not replaced by something like intensive tutoring?

What does reduced school time mean for where students spend time? Where do they go at 1:30 on Wednesday if their parents work?

What sorts of parents can make a 4-day-work week 'work'?

There a quite a few charters who end early one day a week. I don’t have time to look, but what do parents do there?

The one parent I know who had a charter like this tried it for a year and then had to lottery out; she was a single mother and it was creating havoc for her in her job. Her kid was also too young to be alone.

[Anonymous]

The school system where I grew up (in flyover country) starts school 30 minutes late one day a week.

[Anonymous]

I too think teachers should have more flexibility and we need additional people who are trained in delivering student education or offering a safe space at school so that is possible for students.

Unfortunately, the current UPSFF formula is based on a certain model and finding the funding to have more people in a building to not only cover, but enrich the student experience is going to require the UPSFF to be appropriately funded.

ICYMI there have been advocates that testify to this every year during the budget season. The UPSFF advisory group says "it takes x amount of money to do all the things that have to happen to adequately support students. The recommendations have not been followed for more than a decade.

So, when I see DC Council step up with a bill like this, it makes me want to scream in their faces...WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

It is so sad to see this board and our communities divide on this topic. We need more staffing and support in our schools and we need to PAY FOR IT.

I realize people think DCPS central office is bloated and DC Charter school salaries are too high...blah, blah, blah. That is all just noise.

An independent group of experts told DC council and executive to fund at one level and they never have. Let's put the blame where it belongs, not with parents or teachers who want more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I too think teachers should have more flexibility and we need additional people who are trained in delivering student education or offering a safe space at school so that is possible for students.

Unfortunately, the current UPSFF formula is based on a certain model and finding the funding to have more people in a building to not only cover, but enrich the student experience is going to require the UPSFF to be appropriately funded.

ICYMI there have been advocates that testify to this every year during the budget season. The UPSFF advisory group says "it takes x amount of money to do all the things that have to happen to adequately support students. The recommendations have not been followed for more than a decade.

So, when I see DC Council step up with a bill like this, it makes me want to scream in their faces...WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

It is so sad to see this board and our communities divide on this topic. We need more staffing and support in our schools and we need to PAY FOR IT.

I realize people think DCPS central office is bloated and DC Charter school salaries are too high...blah, blah, blah. That is all just noise.

An independent group of experts told DC council and executive to fund at one level and they never have. Let's put the blame where it belongs, not with parents or teachers who want more.

This.