Is design-build significantly more efficient?

[Anonymous]

We are considering a pop-top plus interior renovation (everything gutted) on our small home and interviewed a few architects, thinking we would go the architect + contractor route. The way I understand it, it would take us 2-3 months to get final plans (at best), then 2-3 months (at best) to bid them out and get permits, then probably 4-6 months for construction. So we're looking at end of year at best, but realistically next summer or later before all is done.

A friend suggested that we consider design-build firms. We hadn't originally because I understand they come with a 25-30% premium, but if we could shave several months off the process I think it might be worth it for a project of this scale. Is it worth it? Our house needs so much work -- I just want to fast forward into the future and live in the great place I know it can be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are considering a pop-top plus interior renovation (everything gutted) on our small home and interviewed a few architects, thinking we would go the architect + contractor route. The way I understand it, it would take us 2-3 months to get final plans (at best), then 2-3 months (at best) to bid them out and get permits, then probably 4-6 months for construction. So we're looking at end of year at best, but realistically next summer or later before all is done.

A friend suggested that we consider design-build firms. We hadn't originally because I understand they come with a 25-30% premium, but if we could shave several months off the process I think it might be worth it for a project of this scale. Is it worth it? Our house needs so much work -- I just want to fast forward into the future and live in the great place I know it can be.

Your not going to meaningfully reduce time. It still takes months to plan and to get permits, and it then takes months to get supplies in and fitted into your contractor's schedule. You don't want someone who rushes into demo and leaves you without a house while waiting on crap to get delivered.

[Anonymous]

Find a firm a friend used successfully and interview them. You won't know the price difference until you do

[Anonymous]

How are y’all getting pricing without paying for it? Everyone ive talked to is at least $7500 for any sort of “pen to paper” which will then lead to pricing.

Had a friend drop $14k for plans just to learn the structure was double their budget and the project was DOA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are y’all getting pricing without paying for it? Everyone ive talked to is at least $7500 for any sort of “pen to paper” which will then lead to pricing.

Had a friend drop $14k for plans just to learn the structure was double their budget and the project was DOA.

Hire a good architect. Consult with a GC early. Do a feasibility study early. At a minimum, get a ballpark $/sqft.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are y’all getting pricing without paying for it? Everyone ive talked to is at least $7500 for any sort of “pen to paper” which will then lead to pricing.

Had a friend drop $14k for plans just to learn the structure was double their budget and the project was DOA.

Hire a good architect. Consult with a GC early. Do a feasibility study early. At a minimum, get a ballpark $/sqft.

Architects want $10k+ to even talk about plans to get to a feasibility study. Is there something else we should be asking for?

[Anonymous]

They're good if you're even a little indecisive. If you want to be hands off, it's a no brainer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are y’all getting pricing without paying for it? Everyone ive talked to is at least $7500 for any sort of “pen to paper” which will then lead to pricing.

Had a friend drop $14k for plans just to learn the structure was double their budget and the project was DOA.

This is what I’m afraid of in terms of going the design-build route for out kitchen reno, especially because it will involve some damage remediation - the full scope of which won’t be apparent until the current cabinetry is demo-ed. We found a small business through friends that gave us a preliminary design and associated estimate for free, so using that as a benchmark, but it still seems like the in-house design process would be easier in many respects than the individual shopping we’d have to do with the small biz…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are y’all getting pricing without paying for it? Everyone ive talked to is at least $7500 for any sort of “pen to paper” which will then lead to pricing.

Had a friend drop $14k for plans just to learn the structure was double their budget and the project was DOA.

Hire a good architect. Consult with a GC early. Do a feasibility study early. At a minimum, get a ballpark $/sqft.

Architects want $10k+ to even talk about plans to get to a feasibility study. Is there something else we should be asking for?

Design-build is significantly uglier, unless the firm is architect led which is few and far between.
Feasibility studies take man hours so yes, there should be a fee for that. What you get is an understanding of your site's constraints and psychological reconciliation with what your limits are.

[Anonymous]

Design build is typically cheaper in my experience but you get what you pay for. There are no checks and balances because the arch and the contractor are on the same team. For my 3 design build projects I had to be the defacto GC. Do you fell comfortable with that?

[Anonymous]

dont pop up, sell the house and get another or tear it down and build new, these popus rarely are worth the roi

[Anonymous]

Currently mid project on a $550,000 addition in Del Ray. We interviewed all the usual suspects from builders to architectural firms to DB firms. Plans from various architects were 15k-25k. PPSQF were in the $400-$500 range. We spent months negotiating with all and spoke with past clients of all of theirs. It is what it is. Without the addition, my house would sell for 750k tomorrow. With the addition it would sell for 1.2-1.5. With borrowing costs at 6/7 percent right now it made much more sense to stay put and bypass all the costs associated with the transaction. Plus, I'm not about to forfeit my 2.5% mortgage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:dont pop up, sell the house and get another or tear it down and build new, these popus rarely are worth the roi

This is horrible advice for most close in suburbs. In Arlington even tear downs are 900,000. New builds are 1.5 putting total cost at 2.4. There is a very tiny market of buyers at that price point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are y’all getting pricing without paying for it? Everyone ive talked to is at least $7500 for any sort of “pen to paper” which will then lead to pricing.

Had a friend drop $14k for plans just to learn the structure was double their budget and the project was DOA.

Hire a good architect. Consult with a GC early. Do a feasibility study early. At a minimum, get a ballpark $/sqft.

Architects want $10k+ to even talk about plans to get to a feasibility study. Is there something else we should be asking for?

Not all Architects require that much up front…shop around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Design build is typically cheaper in my experience but you get what you pay for. There are no checks and balances because the arch and the contractor are on the same team.

This is why we did NOT do design-build on our addition. Architect caught several things during construction which would have been serious problems, including a contractor deviation from the blueprints which would not have met code. And always remember, code is the minimum acceptable, code is not always the best practice.