Does private school give kids a better chance to get into good college?

[Anonymous]

We live in a good neighborhood with good public schools and never really considered private even though we can afford it. Recently several friends have moved their kids from public to private in 6th/9th grades, and more claim they plan to do the same - all because they feel that it’s so hard for kids to get into good colleges these days and it’s much more likely to happen if your child graduates from a good private school. The general consensus is that public schools are too hands off and don’t set kids up for success to get into good schools, unless they are truly at the top of the class academically.

What does DCUM think?

[Anonymous]

Hold on, let me grab my popcorn...

[Anonymous]

Depends on the student and the private school. Not all private schools are created equal. But at private schools you will have a dedicated college counselor who will actually know you and who can guide you toward schools that similar students from their school have succeeded at. At least at our public HS, I think they have two college counselors for maybe 750 kids.

[Anonymous]

NO SCHOOL CARRIES ANY PARTICULAR BENEFIT FOR COLLEGE ADMISSION. Take that calculus out of it.

Colleges are not so dumb! There are very talented and high-achieving students in both public and private, and the admissions officers identify them easily, then cherry pick a class based on those AND OTHER factors that are not within your total control (maybe they need a tuba player, or they're particular moved by series of non-profits a kid "founded" and wrote about, or they're still going for the usual athletes).

Don't kill yourself to get your kid into a public magnet or an expensive private - your kid will compete against pre-selected kids, and competition is obvious and fierce. But don't think that competition doesn't exist at all in large publics; it's less visible, since your kid maybe doesn't know ALL the other top students in their 700-student grade, but it's very much there.

So in the end, your decision has to focus on other factors, notably safety (is the public school safe?), and expense (can you afford 60K+ a year K-12 and college?). Those are the big ones for parents. Secondarily, how do you feel about school peers? Is a so-so public fine, because you trust your kid to study hard? Is an excellent public better, but then you'll have to afford expensive real estate there, and the kids will be under significant academic pressure, just as if they were in a top private? When is it ever worth it to pay for a so-so private? Never, I think, unless you're looking for a particular religious school.

Forget about accompaniment. Private schools don't necessarily give kids more attention than publics. Yes, classes tend to be smaller, but that does not necessarily translate to better instruction or more hand-holding. Publics are mandated by law to offer services and accommodations to kids with diagnosed disabilities that impact their academics, privates don't have to do that. The private schools with the most admissions to top universities are cutthroat and do not help their students. They just select at entry and let their families do the rest!

The greatest factor in educational success is a family's wealth and attention to academics. Most families in wealthy neighborhoods, whether they put their kids in private or public, pay for tutoring for their kids. Some kids with learning differences need remedial tutoring, but a LOT of families pay for tutors to get their already good students into advanced classes, and ensure they receive high scores in all their standardized exams (despite the test-optional environment, which is really only a safe option for certain underrepresented groups).

I've just been through the college admissions process with one of my kids. This is the lay of the land. PLEASE do not pay for a private school thinking it will get your kid into the Ivy League. That is an expensive mistake to make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NO SCHOOL CARRIES ANY PARTICULAR BENEFIT FOR COLLEGE ADMISSION. Take that calculus out of it.

Colleges are not so dumb! There are very talented and high-achieving students in both public and private, and the admissions officers identify them easily, then cherry pick a class based on those AND OTHER factors that are not within your total control (maybe they need a tuba player, or they're particular moved by series of non-profits a kid "founded" and wrote about, or they're still going for the usual athletes).

Don't kill yourself to get your kid into a public magnet or an expensive private - your kid will compete against pre-selected kids, and competition is obvious and fierce. But don't think that competition doesn't exist at all in large publics; it's less visible, since your kid maybe doesn't know ALL the other top students in their 700-student grade, but it's very much there.

So in the end, your decision has to focus on other factors, notably safety (is the public school safe?), and expense (can you afford 60K+ a year K-12 and college?). Those are the big ones for parents. Secondarily, how do you feel about school peers? Is a so-so public fine, because you trust your kid to study hard? Is an excellent public better, but then you'll have to afford expensive real estate there, and the kids will be under significant academic pressure, just as if they were in a top private? When is it ever worth it to pay for a so-so private? Never, I think, unless you're looking for a particular religious school.

Forget about accompaniment. Private schools don't necessarily give kids more attention than publics. Yes, classes tend to be smaller, but that does not necessarily translate to better instruction or more hand-holding. Publics are mandated by law to offer services and accommodations to kids with diagnosed disabilities that impact their academics, privates don't have to do that. The private schools with the most admissions to top universities are cutthroat and do not help their students. They just select at entry and let their families do the rest!

The greatest factor in educational success is a family's wealth and attention to academics. Most families in wealthy neighborhoods, whether they put their kids in private or public, pay for tutoring for their kids. Some kids with learning differences need remedial tutoring, but a LOT of families pay for tutors to get their already good students into advanced classes, and ensure they receive high scores in all their standardized exams (despite the test-optional environment, which is really only a safe option for certain underrepresented groups).

I've just been through the college admissions process with one of my kids. This is the lay of the land. PLEASE do not pay for a private school thinking it will get your kid into the Ivy League. That is an expensive mistake to make.

This is OP. I should clarify that I am NOT talking about getting into Ivies. I am talking about getting into desirable good colleges like Michigan, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Wash U, UT, Emory, Tufts. These are the schools my peer set went to and none of their kids who are good students with top grades are getting in. What my friends are saying is that other than academics the public schools don’t push the kids toward extracurriculars, charity work, etc that make them stronger candidates outside of grades. The thought is that privates so that much better and make the students much more well rounded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NO SCHOOL CARRIES ANY PARTICULAR BENEFIT FOR COLLEGE ADMISSION. Take that calculus out of it.

Colleges are not so dumb! There are very talented and high-achieving students in both public and private, and the admissions officers identify them easily, then cherry pick a class based on those AND OTHER factors that are not within your total control (maybe they need a tuba player, or they're particular moved by series of non-profits a kid "founded" and wrote about, or they're still going for the usual athletes).

Don't kill yourself to get your kid into a public magnet or an expensive private - your kid will compete against pre-selected kids, and competition is obvious and fierce. But don't think that competition doesn't exist at all in large publics; it's less visible, since your kid maybe doesn't know ALL the other top students in their 700-student grade, but it's very much there.

So in the end, your decision has to focus on other factors, notably safety (is the public school safe?), and expense (can you afford 60K+ a year K-12 and college?). Those are the big ones for parents. Secondarily, how do you feel about school peers? Is a so-so public fine, because you trust your kid to study hard? Is an excellent public better, but then you'll have to afford expensive real estate there, and the kids will be under significant academic pressure, just as if they were in a top private? When is it ever worth it to pay for a so-so private? Never, I think, unless you're looking for a particular religious school.

Forget about accompaniment. Private schools don't necessarily give kids more attention than publics. Yes, classes tend to be smaller, but that does not necessarily translate to better instruction or more hand-holding. Publics are mandated by law to offer services and accommodations to kids with diagnosed disabilities that impact their academics, privates don't have to do that. The private schools with the most admissions to top universities are cutthroat and do not help their students. They just select at entry and let their families do the rest!

The greatest factor in educational success is a family's wealth and attention to academics. Most families in wealthy neighborhoods, whether they put their kids in private or public, pay for tutoring for their kids. Some kids with learning differences need remedial tutoring, but a LOT of families pay for tutors to get their already good students into advanced classes, and ensure they receive high scores in all their standardized exams (despite the test-optional environment, which is really only a safe option for certain underrepresented groups).

I've just been through the college admissions process with one of my kids. This is the lay of the land. PLEASE do not pay for a private school thinking it will get your kid into the Ivy League. That is an expensive mistake to make.

This is OP. I should clarify that I am NOT talking about getting into Ivies. I am talking about getting into desirable good colleges like Michigan, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Wash U, UT, Emory, Tufts. These are the schools my peer set went to and none of their kids who are good students with top grades are getting in. What my friends are saying is that other than academics the public schools don’t push the kids toward extracurriculars, charity work, etc that make them stronger candidates outside of grades. The thought is that privates so that much better and make the students much more well rounded.

Rule of thumb, I think most kids who do as well as their parents did in school are going to schools one tier down. No matter where they go to high school.

[Anonymous]

There are certainly some private schools like Dalton or Harvard Westlake that provide a serious advantage when it comes to top 20 college admissions. But that’s not because of the students. Or the quality of their education. It’s because of the parents, who tend to be wealthy and powerful.

It’s a symbiotic relationship. Elite schools like the children of the elite and vice versa.

In the DC area, however, there is no private that competes with those schools. New York privates in particular inhabit a completely different world. DC has nothing like it.

If you live in the DMV and your only concern is college admissions, there are zero benefits to going to private now. Yes, they might get more hand holding when it comes to ECs, test prep, counseling.

But that’s not necessarily a good thing. All those kids from Whitman and Churchill and Langley who end up at good universities did so because they were self-motivated enough to make their way through an environment with 2000+ kids and overworked teachers and administrators. Those kids tend to find each other and create their own support network. Privileged as they may be, they all demonstrate some gumption and discipline and seem to do pretty well with college acceptances.

But this all depends on what your public option is. I think anyone that lives in the Whitman district and chooses a private for perceived advantages in college admissions is delusional. But if you’re zoned for Eastern, of course it makes sense

And as always, this is dependent on the student’s particular situation. Some students - special needs, etc - will be better served in private

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NO SCHOOL CARRIES ANY PARTICULAR BENEFIT FOR COLLEGE ADMISSION. Take that calculus out of it.

Colleges are not so dumb! There are very talented and high-achieving students in both public and private, and the admissions officers identify them easily, then cherry pick a class based on those AND OTHER factors that are not within your total control (maybe they need a tuba player, or they're particular moved by series of non-profits a kid "founded" and wrote about, or they're still going for the usual athletes).

Don't kill yourself to get your kid into a public magnet or an expensive private - your kid will compete against pre-selected kids, and competition is obvious and fierce. But don't think that competition doesn't exist at all in large publics; it's less visible, since your kid maybe doesn't know ALL the other top students in their 700-student grade, but it's very much there.

So in the end, your decision has to focus on other factors, notably safety (is the public school safe?), and expense (can you afford 60K+ a year K-12 and college?). Those are the big ones for parents. Secondarily, how do you feel about school peers? Is a so-so public fine, because you trust your kid to study hard? Is an excellent public better, but then you'll have to afford expensive real estate there, and the kids will be under significant academic pressure, just as if they were in a top private? When is it ever worth it to pay for a so-so private? Never, I think, unless you're looking for a particular religious school.

Forget about accompaniment. Private schools don't necessarily give kids more attention than publics. Yes, classes tend to be smaller, but that does not necessarily translate to better instruction or more hand-holding. Publics are mandated by law to offer services and accommodations to kids with diagnosed disabilities that impact their academics, privates don't have to do that. The private schools with the most admissions to top universities are cutthroat and do not help their students. They just select at entry and let their families do the rest!

The greatest factor in educational success is a family's wealth and attention to academics. Most families in wealthy neighborhoods, whether they put their kids in private or public, pay for tutoring for their kids. Some kids with learning differences need remedial tutoring, but a LOT of families pay for tutors to get their already good students into advanced classes, and ensure they receive high scores in all their standardized exams (despite the test-optional environment, which is really only a safe option for certain underrepresented groups).

I've just been through the college admissions process with one of my kids. This is the lay of the land. PLEASE do not pay for a private school thinking it will get your kid into the Ivy League. That is an expensive mistake to make.

This is OP. I should clarify that I am NOT talking about getting into Ivies. I am talking about getting into desirable good colleges like Michigan, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Wash U, UT, Emory, Tufts. These are the schools my peer set went to and none of their kids who are good students with top grades are getting in. What my friends are saying is that other than academics the public schools don’t push the kids toward extracurriculars, charity work, etc that make them stronger candidates outside of grades. The thought is that privates so that much better and make the students much more well rounded.

No.

And by the way, when I say Ivy League these days, I mean ALL the top schools, yours included. Because now, it's a lottery at all those schools. You and your friends don't quite grasp how random and how selective all the top tier has become. If your kid isn't an underrepresented minority who has founded their own non-profit, and is a high level athlete or musician (meaning state, national or international level recognition), then no amount of AP classes, perfect scores and perfect GPA will guarantee admission. Excellent academics just prevents students from being rejected in the first round. If they don't bring anything else to the table, chances of getting in are quite low.

There is no way that paying for private school opens doors wide enough for this. You'll get a lot more bang for your buck if your child is in a decent public and you pay for one-on-one tutoring to give them excellent content mastery, so they can focus on their extra-curriculars. Tutors and extra-curriculars get expensive. Travel sports can be 10K a year per kid. Prep Matters has a fee structure that goes from $175 to $500 per hour, depending on the tutor (the founder is $500 an hour). To attain high levels of achievement in their chosen activity, kids need to spend years on it. Costs add up. I hope you weren't thinking about just paying for private school and nothing else. Since it's a competition, kids in private are also booked up with activities, and a lot of parents at those schools are well connected and money is not an issue. They will have interesting internships and opportunities your child may not have. They will pay for private (not school-based) college counselors and essay editors. And come college admissions time, your child will be compared to that cohort.

Actually I'm not saying all private school parents do this. I'm saying that enough wealthy parents, of private AND public schools, help their children out with whatever advantage money and connections can get, that it impacts college admissions for all students.

If you can easily afford private school AND those other things, then all the above is moot and you can go right ahead! But many of us need to weigh carefully how, when and where to spend our money. Given that it's so competitive these days, and private school is not (and was never, apart from a few NY feeders cited above by another PP) an easy fix to get into top universities... many parents who could possibly afford private just keep their kids in good-enough publics, and save their money for college payments, plus downpayments for their kids' first homes, or other monetary gifts. This makes a reasonable amount of sense, since the biggest predictor of financial success is not so much the name on the diploma, but the amount of debt young graduates start out with. If they graduate from a regular college with no debt, have a house with a low mortgage or no mortgage because their parents helped out, then they're already starting out life with a distinct financial advantage compared to most college graduates.

So... it's time to think a little more long-term, OP. Brand names of private schools and universities are very nice. But they may not be the most important factor in your children's wealth accumulation.

[Anonymous]

I think OP is just stirring the pot.
I’m not thinking about college yet for my rising MS kid, I am concerned about the violence and behavior in mcps MS though and that’s why we chose private. I want my kid to enjoy school, make friends, and be safe.

[Anonymous]

We live in McLean and my kids currently are in the Advanced Academic Program. We have toured all the local privates. In my personal opinion, attending a private does not give a college academic boost if your child is not hooked. I have gone through this process and have started a few threads like this over the years.

If you attend a top private like Sidwell or St Albans, your child will be competing against some big money and legacy kids so I personally think it is a disadvantage for a normal smart UMC unhooked kid. If your child could be a smart kid at St Albans, that same kid could have been one of the top kids and the local public.

If you value the private school experience, you should go for private. I don’t think you should switch for a college boost. We know many families who send their kids to Potomac, Landon/Holton, STA, NCS, etc. The average kids who were not even in the AAP program or not stand out kids are still not the top performers at their private schools. There are the kids who would have done well in public or private and their parents are legacies.

[Anonymous]

No.

Absolutely not. The PPs have nailed it. I think you are at a disadvantage at private because expectations and competition is higher. The same UMC kid would be received more favorably by colleges coming from a public.

[Anonymous]

My middle school daughter ten years back had friends who had to transfer out to private school for a year or two by their parents. It was always when they were doing poorly due to behavior issues, weed, boys, etc. if they did well they were allowed back to public school by their parents. Says something about private schools.

[Anonymous]

Mo, but being rich/educated/education-valuing enough to be the type of person to send your kids to private schools is correlated.

[Anonymous]

*No

[Anonymous]

What I learned after putting 3 kids in college is the following — you either pay at the beginning and get your kid into a good college with good scholarship/ merit aid or you stay in your free high school and hope your kid is really lucky to get into the schools of their choice with a small merit scholarship. I also learned that in the DMV area, it’s the norm for middle class parents to enroll their kids in their neighborhood high school while hiring a private college counselor for 4-5 years, who, together with the high school counselors, ensure the student has access to the best teachers and preference when a college gives that school a number of guaranteed admissions. Apparently this is especially true in certain charters. In privates, the counselor does the job of the hired counselor.
I first didn’t think this could be the case when a DC native friend told me all this… but after seeing numerous examples, over the years, I wish I had believed her instead of thinking that a high gpa and near perfect SAT with good extra curricular was the way to get admissions to a tier 1 university.