Another class-size question--confused

[Anonymous]

I am confused about how decisions for class size are made in MCPS. First, does anyone know what the limits are going to be for second and third grade next year in MCPS? Then, I am further confused by the following: our ES (not a low-income one, so subject to the larger class sizes) now has four first-grade classes of roughly 20-21 each, but I heard that there will only be 3 second-grade classes next year and that they won't open a fourth unless they get more than 30 children per class. But I don't understand how they can have classes of 28-29 students each if that is above the limit (if it is indeed above the limit?). Could someone please explain how this all works to me? Thanks!

[Anonymous]

I believe the current limit for elementary school is 25, assuming you are not in a Title I school. (The limits have historically been lower in those classrooms; don't know if that is currently the case.)

MCPS is talking about increasing class size by one student/class, in view of budget issues. That would take the limit to 26.

The limits for middle and high school are higher (30 maybe?) and likewise would be increased by one.

[Anonymous]

this doesn't sound right to me -- our elem school -- wood acres -- right now, and last year, for that matter, had a limit of 27 per class in kindergarten. each class had to reach 27 in order to get another classroom.

[Anonymous]

There are also four 1st Grade classrooms at our school, and each have 24 to 25 students (so, OP, I think you are very lucky right now); however, the 3rd grade classrooms at our school have 27 to 29 in each.

[Anonymous]

Class sizes aren't cut and dry. They are usually allocated by school - total enrollment, not by grade level. Therefore, if one grade is larger than another, it may have larger class sizes. One grade may have 75 students, so there would be three classes of 25. Another grade may have 81, with three teachers the classes would be 27. Just because that grade has more students, doesn't mean that it would get another teacher making classes around 20/21 students. It just doesn't work that way.

* I am just using numbers, I don't really know what classes are for each grade.

[Anonymous]

MCPS class size guidelines for 2009-2010 are as follows:
K=25
1st, 2nd, 3rd=26
4th, 5th=28

Class size guidelines for 2010-2011 are:
K=26
1st, 2nd, 3rd=27
4th, 5th=29

These are guidelines. If the principal requests sufficient number of positions to meet these guidelines, the request can still be denied.

[Anonymous]

OP here--thanks very much to the last two posters who explained how it works. What I still don't understand, though, is how class sizes can go above the guidelines--i.e., if the class size maximum is 27, how could classes end up with 29 students? Are you saying that the guidelines aren't mandatory? Thanks again.

[Anonymous]

exactly...they're guidelines, not rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here--thanks very much to the last two posters who explained how it works. What I still don't understand, though, is how class sizes can go above the guidelines--i.e., if the class size maximum is 27, how could classes end up with 29 students? Are you saying that the guidelines aren't mandatory? Thanks again.

Correct, they're not mandatory. MCPS likes to discuss them as though they're mandatory giving us all some false sense of comfort.

[Anonymous]

In addition, staffing decisions are usually made finaly by a certain date -- say Oct 1st. If any new students transfer in after that date, usually no additional teachers will be assigned. So classes could end up larger than they are at the start of the year (smaller too of course!)

[Anonymous]

have visitied many MCPS where 1st and 2nd grade class sizes are 28, 29, 30...

[Anonymous]

I think I've heard from our principal that they go 1 over the max in class size before adding another classroom. (yes, yes, that means the max is really 1 more than the stated amount).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think I've heard from our principal that they go 1 over the max in class size before adding another classroom. (yes, yes, that means the max is really 1 more than the stated amount).

Yes, and I believe it's 1 over in ALL of the classes at that grade level. So let's say the cap is 28 for 3rd grade, and there three 3rd grade classes at a school. My understanding is that all three classes would need to have 29 kids to even begin the discussion of adding another class at that grade level. Class sizes will be big this coming school year.