Tech CEOs predicting WFH will be permanent, and many employees will never come to an office again

[Anonymous]

I think we are assuming that even 5 years from now WFH will be as its done today...Thats a wrong assumption - think of all the tech improvements - faster/reliable internet, 4K video conferencing, virtual reality goggles even (maybe 10 years lol for that).

But the point is increased demand for something will lead to faster innovation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Network contacts at Square and Shopify also confirm pay cuts for those who WFH and relocate.

Some of you are not looking at this long-term. I predict not only salary cuts of 40% but also serious benefit cuts. No more 6-month paid childcare leaves, no free breakfast, lunch and dinner 7 days a week (obviously), no free medical care (FB has onsight medical doctors) and much crappier health insurance, and most important I think they will sneak in much smaller 401K matches and stock options.

You can move to Ohio if you want to, but its the person who had daily face-to-face with Zuckerberg and Sandberg who are going to get the promotion and stock benefits.

No offense but your post sounds completely made up, do you actually know anybody at these companies? The number of people who have even monthly face-to-face meetings with Zuck and Cheryl is way less than 1% of Bay Area employees and therefore irrelevant for almost everybody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Network contacts at Square and Shopify also confirm pay cuts for those who WFH and relocate.

Some of you are not looking at this long-term. I predict not only salary cuts of 40% but also serious benefit cuts. No more 6-month paid childcare leaves, no free breakfast, lunch and dinner 7 days a week (obviously), no free medical care (FB has onsight medical doctors) and much crappier health insurance, and most important I think they will sneak in much smaller 401K matches and stock options.

You can move to Ohio if you want to, but its the person who had daily face-to-face with Zuckerberg and Sandberg who are going to get the promotion and stock benefits.

No offense but your post sounds completely made up, do you actually know anybody at these companies? The number of people who have even monthly face-to-face meetings with Zuck and Cheryl is way less than 1% of Bay Area employees and therefore irrelevant for almost everybody.

DP. You are missing the point. Physical face time with execs leads to greater advancement, and almost zero physical face time increases stagnation. Especially once you hit a certain level of seniority. People who had been working remotely for years prior to the pandemic know this is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Network contacts at Square and Shopify also confirm pay cuts for those who WFH and relocate.

Some of you are not looking at this long-term. I predict not only salary cuts of 40% but also serious benefit cuts. No more 6-month paid childcare leaves, no free breakfast, lunch and dinner 7 days a week (obviously), no free medical care (FB has onsight medical doctors) and much crappier health insurance, and most important I think they will sneak in much smaller 401K matches and stock options.

You can move to Ohio if you want to, but its the person who had daily face-to-face with Zuckerberg and Sandberg who are going to get the promotion and stock benefits.

No offense but your post sounds completely made up, do you actually know anybody at these companies? The number of people who have even monthly face-to-face meetings with Zuck and Cheryl is way less than 1% of Bay Area employees and therefore irrelevant for almost everybody.

DP. You are missing the point. Physical face time with execs leads to greater advancement, and almost zero physical face time increases stagnation. Especially once you hit a certain level of seniority. People who had been working remotely for years prior to the pandemic know this is true.

Even what you are saying is true, I have a feeling that some folks are OK with that or are willing to make that tradeoff for better standard of living.

[Anonymous]

ITT: Terrified SFH owners in dense urban areas who are afraid they'll lose a lot of value in their homes once jobs decentralize and people flee high tax states/cities and high COL areas. Bring on the decentralization. Can't wait to leave this overpriced area with soul crushing traffic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“I would leave this area in a heartbeat if I were guaranteed permanent WFH. I'd much rather retire faster by saving more money also not have to deal with horrific traffic in this area.”

Once this happens, the salaries would readjust to reflect the lower cost of living areas where many of the employees reside combined with potentially larger pool of potential applicants / employees who otherwise may not have applied for specific positions if they had to physically move.

Not only that, it would be even worse for employees since it’s costly and a PITA for a company to register and conduct business in another state—which they would need to do if employees are stationed there even if WFH. They would need to comply with employment laws, too. So, they would cut loose employees and rehire them as temps or contractors. That means say goodbye to your benefits!

Trust me, corporations are already identifying ways to cut costs and the end result will benefit the employer, not the employee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Network contacts at Square and Shopify also confirm pay cuts for those who WFH and relocate.

Some of you are not looking at this long-term. I predict not only salary cuts of 40% but also serious benefit cuts. No more 6-month paid childcare leaves, no free breakfast, lunch and dinner 7 days a week (obviously), no free medical care (FB has onsight medical doctors) and much crappier health insurance, and most important I think they will sneak in much smaller 401K matches and stock options.

You can move to Ohio if you want to, but its the person who had daily face-to-face with Zuckerberg and Sandberg who are going to get the promotion and stock benefits.

No offense but your post sounds completely made up, do you actually know anybody at these companies? The number of people who have even monthly face-to-face meetings with Zuck and Cheryl is way less than 1% of Bay Area employees and therefore irrelevant for almost everybody.

DP. You are missing the point. Physical face time with execs leads to greater advancement, and almost zero physical face time increases stagnation. Especially once you hit a certain level of seniority. People who had been working remotely for years prior to the pandemic know this is true.

Even what you are saying is true, I have a feeling that some folks are OK with that or are willing to make that tradeoff for better standard of living.

Romanticizing smaller towns or rural retreats is easy when you don't live there day after day after day. The "better standard of living" is far from a guarantee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a software engineer and lead a software team. We have noticed zero hiccups from working from home. Before this, some of our team was working remote anyway.

It's really hard for me to figure out the benefits of us going back. All I see are the added stress, and exhaustion over having to wake up earlier. Our meetings are shorter over teleconference. It's just a win-win all-around.

I do think if more private companies allow WFH, it will be that much harder for the government to attract younger workers to slog their way in to work. Especially those in the secure offices and no cell phones, etc.

How does mentoring work with WFM? I would think developing new talent would suffer with 100% WFH. Same for companies that work with teams.

We've hired three people during covid, and I'm responsible for onboarding. I've never met them face to face. It takes a little more thought and intentional outreach but it's going ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“I would leave this area in a heartbeat if I were guaranteed permanent WFH. I'd much rather retire faster by saving more money also not have to deal with horrific traffic in this area.”

Once this happens, the salaries would readjust to reflect the lower cost of living areas where many of the employees reside combined with potentially larger pool of potential applicants / employees who otherwise may not have applied for specific positions if they had to physically move.

Not only that, it would be even worse for employees since it’s costly and a PITA for a company to register and conduct business in another state—which they would need to do if employees are stationed there even if WFH. They would need to comply with employment laws, too. So, they would cut loose employees and rehire them as temps or contractors. That means say goodbye to your benefits!

Trust me, corporations are already identifying ways to cut costs and the end result will benefit the employer, not the employee.

Why do people assume that when the tech workforce goes remote, that this will not just ramp up their number of non-US employees? You think you are facing wage competition from workers in India now? Just wait until it's no longer a job requirement that you be located near a company office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“I would leave this area in a heartbeat if I were guaranteed permanent WFH. I'd much rather retire faster by saving more money also not have to deal with horrific traffic in this area.”

Once this happens, the salaries would readjust to reflect the lower cost of living areas where many of the employees reside combined with potentially larger pool of potential applicants / employees who otherwise may not have applied for specific positions if they had to physically move.

Not only that, it would be even worse for employees since it’s costly and a PITA for a company to register and conduct business in another state—which they would need to do if employees are stationed there even if WFH. They would need to comply with employment laws, too. So, they would cut loose employees and rehire them as temps or contractors. That means say goodbye to your benefits!

Trust me, corporations are already identifying ways to cut costs and the end result will benefit the employer, not the employee.

Pure fear mongering from a home owner or RE agent afraid values will tank in dense urban areas that get hit with de-densification. Like companies don't have sales reps based all across the country who almost never step foot in HQ. Psshhhh, not that much different at all .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“I would leave this area in a heartbeat if I were guaranteed permanent WFH. I'd much rather retire faster by saving more money also not have to deal with horrific traffic in this area.”

Once this happens, the salaries would readjust to reflect the lower cost of living areas where many of the employees reside combined with potentially larger pool of potential applicants / employees who otherwise may not have applied for specific positions if they had to physically move.

Not only that, it would be even worse for employees since it’s costly and a PITA for a company to register and conduct business in another state—which they would need to do if employees are stationed there even if WFH. They would need to comply with employment laws, too. So, they would cut loose employees and rehire them as temps or contractors. That means say goodbye to your benefits!

Trust me, corporations are already identifying ways to cut costs and the end result will benefit the employer, not the employee.

Why do people assume that when the tech workforce goes remote, that this will not just ramp up their number of non-US employees? You think you are facing wage competition from workers in India now? Just wait until it's no longer a job requirement that you be located near a company office.

Have you ever hired foreign tech employees? If not that explains why you think this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Network contacts at Square and Shopify also confirm pay cuts for those who WFH and relocate.

Some of you are not looking at this long-term. I predict not only salary cuts of 40% but also serious benefit cuts. No more 6-month paid childcare leaves, no free breakfast, lunch and dinner 7 days a week (obviously), no free medical care (FB has onsight medical doctors) and much crappier health insurance, and most important I think they will sneak in much smaller 401K matches and stock options.

You can move to Ohio if you want to, but its the person who had daily face-to-face with Zuckerberg and Sandberg who are going to get the promotion and stock benefits.

No offense but your post sounds completely made up, do you actually know anybody at these companies? The number of people who have even monthly face-to-face meetings with Zuck and Cheryl is way less than 1% of Bay Area employees and therefore irrelevant for almost everybody.

DP. You are missing the point. Physical face time with execs leads to greater advancement, and almost zero physical face time increases stagnation. Especially once you hit a certain level of seniority. People who had been working remotely for years prior to the pandemic know this is true.

As a software dev you can make it to E6-E7 at FB with very little face time (if your technical skills are excellent). Most those devs I know are happy to chill and make $500k/yr with as few reports as possible. I'm most familiar with FB but I imagine Google, Microsoft, Apple, Netflix and others are the same. Face time may be more important for non-technical people, I wouldn't know as much about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Network contacts at Square and Shopify also confirm pay cuts for those who WFH and relocate.

Some of you are not looking at this long-term. I predict not only salary cuts of 40% but also serious benefit cuts. No more 6-month paid childcare leaves, no free breakfast, lunch and dinner 7 days a week (obviously), no free medical care (FB has onsight medical doctors) and much crappier health insurance, and most important I think they will sneak in much smaller 401K matches and stock options.

You can move to Ohio if you want to, but its the person who had daily face-to-face with Zuckerberg and Sandberg who are going to get the promotion and stock benefits.

No offense but your post sounds completely made up, do you actually know anybody at these companies? The number of people who have even monthly face-to-face meetings with Zuck and Cheryl is way less than 1% of Bay Area employees and therefore irrelevant for almost everybody.

DP. You are missing the point. Physical face time with execs leads to greater advancement, and almost zero physical face time increases stagnation. Especially once you hit a certain level of seniority. People who had been working remotely for years prior to the pandemic know this is true.

As a software dev you can make it to E6-E7 at FB with very little face time (if your technical skills are excellent). Most those devs I know are happy to chill and make $500k/yr with as few reports as possible. I'm most familiar with FB but I imagine Google, Microsoft, Apple, Netflix and others are the same. Face time may be more important for non-technical people, I wouldn't know as much about that.

Dp.. well, I'm familiar with some of those high tech companies you listed, and they want software engineers to collaborate, and so they cut down on WFH prior to the pandemic. You could wfh if you had to, but otherwise, they want you in the office for "collaboration". And that's why they also got rid of cubicles and many share office space.

And most of the midlevel engineers at those companies do not make $500K. I don't even think their higher level engineers make that much... maybe if you add stock options that vest over four years.

[Anonymous]

Tech CEOs announcing pay cuts left-and-right for WFH, job listings also drying up. I think SV has been waiting for a way to reduce salaries and benefits. This is it.

Job listings at Microsoft from Aug 2019 until May 2020



https://media.thinknum.com/articles/job-listings-at-microsoft-hav-dropped-by-more-than-60-since-march/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm on the executive team for a fairly large Reston tech company. We are officially not renewing our lease (we have grown substantially) and are moving to a hotel type modified office a bit further our near the Loudoun border. That office will be mainly conference rooms. We have 259 people in this area and will have seats for 50. None permanent. We too have seen productivity skyrocket. People are very happy at home and it is working despite many having kids underfoot.

The people with kids are absolutely miserable. They won't admit this to you, but they are underwater and need schools to reopen ASAP.

Lol! I'm a parent as well. I talk to my team all about this. This does not change the fact that the employees are overwhelmingly asking to keep telecommuting in play after this is over and we are listening. We made this decision after pulling the company and had dozens of people say this would tremendously impact their job satisfaction.

We ready had a hybrid model and have measurable productivity and find our remote workers produce more output.