Should I send my kids to mathnasium?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh... everyone is prepping like crazy, the ones saying their kids are "naturally gifted" are the biggest frauds. BTDT.

This is PP again. No, I’m not a fraud but you sound jealous. Jealous of the fact that your child needs intensive tutoring to keep up with the truly smart kids. So sad

Ok troll, please go away, you've already repeated yourself a bunch of times on this thread and have added nothing to the discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh... everyone is prepping like crazy, the ones saying their kids are "naturally gifted" are the biggest frauds. BTDT.

This is PP again. No, I’m not a fraud but you sound jealous. Jealous of the fact that your child needs intensive tutoring to keep up with the truly smart kids. So sad

Who said anything about intensive tutoring? Also, if your child is one of the "truly smart kids", what did she score on AMC8? Did she make it onto the Longfellow Mathcounts team? You're delusional if you don't think that the truly smart kids with some extracurricular math are leaving your kid behind in the dust. FWIW, my "truly smart" 10 year old probably got a higher AMC8 score than your "truly smart" middle schooler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They actually rush through a bunch of topics, do not teach them effectively (using worksheets, group lessons, and pretty much anything other than teacher involvement). Because they haven't taught them enough, they have to "spiral" around to them again, year after year! So you expect most kids to just get it through osmosis?

I’m an immigrant and this is the main problem I find with math education here - rushing through topics, not enough reinforcement, not enough depth. A spiral approach to education- come back to the same material year after year. They will quickly go over a topic in class and then not touch it for the rest of the year. Of course, kids forget everything and next year they come back to the same concept.

In Russian math you lay thorough foundation, layer by layer, you learn the concepts really well before progressing to the next level, there is a lot of repetition and one concept is derived from the previous one. It stays with you for the rest of your life and with my very average math education in an average Russian school I pass complex math exams at US university without any prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They actually rush through a bunch of topics, do not teach them effectively (using worksheets, group lessons, and pretty much anything other than teacher involvement). Because they haven't taught them enough, they have to "spiral" around to them again, year after year! So you expect most kids to just get it through osmosis?

I’m an immigrant and this is the main problem I find with math education here - rushing through topics, not enough reinforcement, not enough depth. A spiral approach to education- come back to the same material year after year. They will quickly go over a topic in class and then not touch it for the rest of the year. Of course, kids forget everything and next year they come back to the same concept.

In Russian math you lay thorough foundation, layer by layer, you learn the concepts really well before progressing to the next level, there is a lot of repetition and one concept is derived from the previous one. It stays with you for the rest of your life and with my very average math education in an average Russian school I pass complex math exams at US university without any prep.

Yup, exactly. There is a lot of repetition here too but it's done only for basic concepts/exercises (aka worksheets with mainly calculations), but not for actual problems. Kids get bored out of their minds by these repetitive worksheets with simple exercises. Because they're on auto pilot and not engaged to think, they forget mostly everything, and then they have to drill the same topic again next year.

Quality programs build things from the ground up like you said, explain the ideas, give the kids some repetition, then let them explore problems that make use of those concepts. Problems are things that are supposed to test understanding of concepts in new situations, and that's where much of the learning gets done. But the problem aspect here is minimal to none, while the drill repetition of basic stuff is way too common.

[Anonymous]

I am an immigrant and Asian, I rolled my eyes to those immigrant Asian acquaintances who sent their children to "tutoring". But, not anymore.

When my child was in 3rd grade AAP class, I spent sometime to understand what was going on in the classroom, and had a sudden realization that the school work is not enough. My kid naturally is good with math, but his work is messy and written all over the place. Actually he rarely wrote anything done since it was not required in school and he could do those questions in his head. You could say that he is smart but I know this habit will only create big troubles when he is at higher grades. (I teach science in college and have seen plenty of students.) I honestly do not understand why we do not use textbook in FCPS. Students need to see organized and consistent examples of problem solving - not random worksheets from different resources, they need to know how to read by highlighting and taking notes on the books directly... Well, my child is now going to "tutoring" so he can have a textbook and associated homework, and can learn things in a structured way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am an immigrant and Asian, I rolled my eyes to those immigrant Asian acquaintances who sent their children to "tutoring". But, not anymore.

When my child was in 3rd grade AAP class, I spent sometime to understand what was going on in the classroom, and had a sudden realization that the school work is not enough. My kid naturally is good with math, but his work is messy and written all over the place. Actually he rarely wrote anything done since it was not required in school and he could do those questions in his head. You could say that he is smart but I know this habit will only create big troubles when he is at higher grades. (I teach science in college and have seen plenty of students.) I honestly do not understand why we do not use textbook in FCPS. Students need to see organized and consistent examples of problem solving - not random worksheets from different resources, they need to know how to read by highlighting and taking notes on the books directly... Well, my child is now going to "tutoring" so he can have a textbook and associated homework, and can learn things in a structured way.

I'm an immigrant and Asian and my AAP kids don't get formal tutoring- YET. The one in third grade is learning Pre-algebra and the one in fourth grade is learning Algebra. They are working on some kind math competition in the school and there is a very tight sense of community. My kid don't appear to struggle, but they do seem to enjoy the competitiveness that the program is starting now.

I don't think textbooks (Kumon or Mathnasium) are absolutely necessary. FCPS provides prodigy for us at home and we work with novel math problems (we work on identifying patterns). I think it's more of seeing the beauty of math in the patterns and repitition that truly helps kids at this stage. This being said: my fourth grader loves the Everything You Need to Ace Math in One Big Fat Notebook: The Complete Middle School Study Guide (Big Fat Notebooks) and I use games from Math with Bad Drawings. But in general, at this age, I feel like tutoring is silly. Maybe in 7th and 8th grade we will re-address it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have 2 kids in 3rd and 5th grade AAP. I’ve recently realized that many of their classmates go to kumon or mathnasium. My 3rd grader seems to especially feel behind as he feels his classmates are more advanced than he is in math. Some kids claim to be doing algebra in 3rd grade. We recently moved to Mclean. I didn’t even know what mathnasium was until we moved here.

My 5th grader told me he is in the lowest AAP math group. He said his group is the one who did the worst in pre assessments. At open house, teachers were purposely vague about differentiation within AAP math. We have never prepped or done any outside math with our children. I’m beginning to think we should be doing something.

My 3rd grader recently took another pre assessment and he said he was dumb. He said he got only 4 questions right out of 20 while others were getting everything right. I told him this was for the teacher to see where everyone was at and DS said he was the dumbest kid in the class.

Both my kids scored 99th percentile in their math Cogat and have always received 4s in math.

Should I be sending my kids to mathnasium or similar?

Start with the basics: FCPS pays for Prodigy, the math learning app. Make sure your kids are working on that.

Get a few books on math (not workbooks) and have them read them. Work on making patterns with math: specifically, have them identify multiplication and division patterns and work on single variable algebra. We do this at home, it is not hard.

The Everything You Need to Ace Math is an easy read. You can start with that and have them work with you on pattern solving.

[Anonymous]

The US turns out a good number of Engineers, Doctors, Architects, hell all sorts of people in jobs requiring advanced math. I would guess the vast majority of those focus did not attend centers like Mathnasium or do Beast Academy.

Families should do what they feel is best for their kids but this notion that math in the US is awful is silly. No, we don’t use a system of education similar to the ones found through out Asia. Heck, the IB program is meant to be similar to the European system. And yet lots of kids take advanced math in high school and go into math related fields. Most are not drilling on math outside of school.

OP: Your kid is not behind. He is where he should be. Ask him if he wants to spend 2-5 hours a week outside of school doing math at a math center. If he says yes, have at it. I would be shocked if he said yes. Otherwise, he is where he should be and the “advanced” kids are where they are because they are studying math as an extra curricular to get ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an immigrant and I supplement math because I don’t think it’s taught well. There is not enough reinforcement and Common Core is a joke and the curriculum is just subpar to the education in my native country.

I'm not an immigrant, or Asian, and I supplement math because I don't think it's taught well.

Mathnasium is wonderful, my children enjoy going because the work is organized with a clear progression, they can move at their own pace either fast or slow, it's quiet, there's always someone to help them the minute they raise their hands, and they get prizes for finishing a section successfully. They get help on their homework if they need it and are assessed regularly to show progress. I see kids there of all ages, from early elementary all to the way up to high school. We've used private tutors in the past but I prefer the center model because we can go on our own schedule.

I also agree there's way, way too much emphasis here on innate talent and "giftedness" and not enough on hard work. In FCPS, AAP should be open to any kid who can do the work, pay attention, and keep up in class. Period. The kids who can't should be sent back down to Gen Ed. Programming for GT should be separate and revert back to how they did it in the past, solely based on test scores. That's how these other countries everyone's referring to do it, right? Access to increasingly advanced levels of education are based on performance and test scores.

What are the countries to which everyone is referring? I wanted to say that one of the top countries just said that they expect good results from all. The weaker ones simply have to work harder. From 1-9 all get a good basic education. They don't have gifted program but they do have STEM track/ arts track and a few more. There is nothing hard in 1-9 math when taught well.

[Anonymous]

Why have I never heard of this Prodigy app? Is it because we are at a no homework school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The US turns out a good number of Engineers, Doctors, Architects, hell all sorts of people in jobs requiring advanced math. I would guess the vast majority of those focus did not attend centers like Mathnasium or do Beast Academy.

Families should do what they feel is best for their kids but this notion that math in the US is awful is silly. No, we don’t use a system of education similar to the ones found through out Asia. Heck, the IB program is meant to be similar to the European system. And yet lots of kids take advanced math in high school and go into math related fields. Most are not drilling on math outside of school.

OP: Your kid is not behind. He is where he should be. Ask him if he wants to spend 2-5 hours a week outside of school doing math at a math center. If he says yes, have at it. I would be shocked if he said yes. Otherwise, he is where he should be and the “advanced” kids are where they are because they are studying math as an extra curricular to get ahead.

These engineers, doctors and architects are not who they are thanks to US. They are who they are thanks to who they are, if you know what I mean, and not because of anything the US does. The US is not capable of offering good basic education to all. Keep bragging about the top performers who we all know would be fine even when they never set foot to a school.
In fact, the school probably does get in the way of their education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The US turns out a good number of Engineers, Doctors, Architects, hell all sorts of people in jobs requiring advanced math. I would guess the vast majority of those focus did not attend centers like Mathnasium or do Beast Academy.

Families should do what they feel is best for their kids but this notion that math in the US is awful is silly. No, we don’t use a system of education similar to the ones found through out Asia. Heck, the IB program is meant to be similar to the European system. And yet lots of kids take advanced math in high school and go into math related fields. Most are not drilling on math outside of school.

OP: Your kid is not behind. He is where he should be. Ask him if he wants to spend 2-5 hours a week outside of school doing math at a math center. If he says yes, have at it. I would be shocked if he said yes. Otherwise, he is where he should be and the “advanced” kids are where they are because they are studying math as an extra curricular to get ahead.

This. There are doctors and engineers in my family, including brothers and sisters and in-laws and myself. Out school system isn't terrible. And most Americans don't have connections or family money, as someone said upthread. Just an education. That's it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why have I never heard of this Prodigy app? Is it because we are at a no homework school?

We are at a yes homework school and I haven't heard of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US turns out a good number of Engineers, Doctors, Architects, hell all sorts of people in jobs requiring advanced math. I would guess the vast majority of those focus did not attend centers like Mathnasium or do Beast Academy.

Families should do what they feel is best for their kids but this notion that math in the US is awful is silly. No, we don’t use a system of education similar to the ones found through out Asia. Heck, the IB program is meant to be similar to the European system. And yet lots of kids take advanced math in high school and go into math related fields. Most are not drilling on math outside of school.

OP: Your kid is not behind. He is where he should be. Ask him if he wants to spend 2-5 hours a week outside of school doing math at a math center. If he says yes, have at it. I would be shocked if he said yes. Otherwise, he is where he should be and the “advanced” kids are where they are because they are studying math as an extra curricular to get ahead.

These engineers, doctors and architects are not who they are thanks to US. They are who they are thanks to who they are, if you know what I mean, and not because of anything the US does. The US is not capable of offering good basic education to all. Keep bragging about the top performers who we all know would be fine even when they never set foot to a school.
In fact, the school probably does get in the way of their education.

I grew up in an Irish Catholic community. I know a good number of Doctors and Engineers who attended the same school I did. I promise you they did not go to math programs after school. I attended Graduate school and earned a PhD with a math based programs. Three quarters of my classmates where non-Asian and did just fine solving and developing Game Theoretic Models.

No offense, but there are plenty of US born kids attending Engineering and Medical schools who were not taking Algebra at a tutoring center in fifth or sixth grade.

Anecdotally, one of my co-workers is Korean and her kids did go to math programs and Korean school and TJ. None of them are using that STEM in their jobs. My co-worker flat out said the kids didn’t want to go to TJ but they provided incentives so the kids did. All that money, time and effort and her kids are not using those skills.

I asked my co-worker why the emphasized math they way they did and she said that is what everyone in her neighborhood did so that is what she did. She wanted the best for her kids. Her kids had great success in a competitive environment but it wasn’t because they were interested.

I fully get that there are kids who love math and learning, my DH and son are both in that category. We play math games, have robotics stuff at the house, and do summer workbooks. I have asked my son if he wants to take additional math classes and he thought I was crazy. He likes playing at the park, playing sports, building with his blocks/marble runs/legos and other things. He will be just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an immigrant and Asian, I rolled my eyes to those immigrant Asian acquaintances who sent their children to "tutoring". But, not anymore.

When my child was in 3rd grade AAP class, I spent sometime to understand what was going on in the classroom, and had a sudden realization that the school work is not enough. My kid naturally is good with math, but his work is messy and written all over the place. Actually he rarely wrote anything done since it was not required in school and he could do those questions in his head. You could say that he is smart but I know this habit will only create big troubles when he is at higher grades. (I teach science in college and have seen plenty of students.) I honestly do not understand why we do not use textbook in FCPS. Students need to see organized and consistent examples of problem solving - not random worksheets from different resources, they need to know how to read by highlighting and taking notes on the books directly... Well, my child is now going to "tutoring" so he can have a textbook and associated homework, and can learn things in a structured way.

I'm an immigrant and Asian and my AAP kids don't get formal tutoring- YET. The one in third grade is learning Pre-algebra and the one in fourth grade is learning Algebra. They are working on some kind math competition in the school and there is a very tight sense of community. My kid don't appear to struggle, but they do seem to enjoy the competitiveness that the program is starting now.

I don't think textbooks (Kumon or Mathnasium) are absolutely necessary. FCPS provides prodigy for us at home and we work with novel math problems (we work on identifying patterns). I think it's more of seeing the beauty of math in the patterns and repitition that truly helps kids at this stage. This being said: my fourth grader loves the Everything You Need to Ace Math in One Big Fat Notebook: The Complete Middle School Study Guide (Big Fat Notebooks) and I use games from Math with Bad Drawings. But in general, at this age, I feel like tutoring is silly. Maybe in 7th and 8th grade we will re-address it.

What book/website etc are you using for the pattern identification problems? Thank you