Big GDS news

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only the GGW-Ward 3 Vision-developer lobby crowd is pushing for massively more retail and housing in Tenleytown. The same folks who thought it would be a great idea to give away part of the Janney schoolyard for a condo tower. There are plenty of opportunities to improve the streetscape in TT and have some more retail, starting with the Dominos lot by Whole Foods and the convenience/liquor stores on the south end that attract street crime. As far as a "viable" street grid, be careful of what you wish for. A true grid would only make it earlier for through traffic to bypass Wisconsin Avenue to seek shortcuts in the residential neighborhoods.

That's right - nobody needs or is buying additional housing right now - that demand is magically divined by the evil smart growth crowd.

The NIMBY's stayed away from the Safeway fight because the neighbors were by and large a reasonable and open minded group - it will be interesting to see what the NIMBY's do when that same group of neighbors realizes what a bad proposal this is for them.

The NIMBY's haven't been around to own the mess that Friendship Heights continues to be because of their stewardship so I'm sure they will step back here as well.

And WRT to TT - LOL - we should only improve one part of the streetscape huh? Of course if you are a NIMBY and just drive to Tenleytown that is the only piece you would be concerned with anyhow.

Thank God for the NIMBY's - if developers had their way, Wisconsin Ave would look like Rockville Pike

Huh - it does look like Rockville Pike! Lots of cars, surface parking lots, ugly low rise buildings, excessive curb cuts, dangerous pedestrian crossings at car oriented intersections, little residential density etc.

But your comparison is stupid - Wisconsin Avenue, despite also being the Rockville Pike, is governed by DC's zoning laws not Montgomery Counties so if the NIMBY's would get out of the way the Avenue would likely evolve to resemble other thriving parts of DC.

Like what? I think that Chevy Chase and Cleveland Park along Connecticut Avenue are pretty thriving neighborhoods, but methinks that isn't the "thriving" model that the Greater Greater Growthers have in mind.

You must not get out of the car much or be able to turn your head - Connecticut Avenue is lined with apartment buildings, some of which are up to 14 stories tall where they back into RCP, almost all of which are taller and denser than what Safeway had proposed for the now GDS site and most of those buildings are even older than the people fighting development in TT. And FWIW those buildings in most cases have no buffer to the adjacent SFH's.

So you prefer the Wisconsin or Connecticut Avenue model?

The Connecticut Avenue"model" is kind of interesting if you know about Washington city planning, because it was planned with areas of apartment buildings, typically set back from the street with wide lawns, interspersed with districts of low-density retail (think Woodley, Cleveland Park, the area around Politics & Prose and Chevy Chase DC. Really dense "mixed-use" wasn't really part of the equation. The lawns and park-like setting for many of the apartments were so important, that they are considered part of the historic landmark if the buildings are landmarked (as the Kennedy-Warren, Broodmoor and many others are). You see a bit of the Connecticut Avenue "model" with McLean Gardens and the Fannie Mae properties, where buildings are set back with green space. Sidwell Friends and the new GDS campus do (or will) provide more green setback. So, yes, the traditional Connecticut Avenue template is certainly a good one.

I see - so you have no concerns about density and only design?

But again you clearly have not walked Connecticut Avenue - there are some buildings with courtyards and setbacks (some of which are quite large buildings btw) and there are buildings with no courtyards where the entire bulk of the building goes right up to the sidewalk.

But you still dodged the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's great that GDS may finally have a real private school campus.

Welcome to the 21st Century Grasshopper

Yup - a real private school campus for mostly suburban MD students who almost exclusively drive to the current school on a major commercial corridor that will forever kill any chance of revitalization of the Wisconsin Avenue corridor while costing DC tens of millions in annual property tax revenue. Oh and the campus will require closing a DC street to get its private feel.

DC always lusts for more tax revenue, but frankly the District government needs more tax revenue the way a crack addict needs more crack. DC should address its "substance abuse" problem first -- the array of sweetheart business deals with Jeffrey Thompson are just the tip of the pay to play iceberg -- and get its fiscal and contracting house in order, before rubber-stamping ever more development in search of the almighty tax dollar.

Well, how about this then: Perhaps GDS should just pick up and move to Potomac, or perhaps Germantown. Frankly, I'm sick of all of the MD residents flooding their kids into DC every day anyway, without paying for use of our services.

What "services" do you have in mind, exactly? The splendid roads? The clean streets? The police officers who failed the police exam 3 or 4 times and still got on the force? The ambulance drivers who run errands while on emergency calls?

--A DC resident

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only the GGW-Ward 3 Vision-developer lobby crowd is pushing for massively more retail and housing in Tenleytown. The same folks who thought it would be a great idea to give away part of the Janney schoolyard for a condo tower. There are plenty of opportunities to improve the streetscape in TT and have some more retail, starting with the Dominos lot by Whole Foods and the convenience/liquor stores on the south end that attract street crime. As far as a "viable" street grid, be careful of what you wish for. A true grid would only make it earlier for through traffic to bypass Wisconsin Avenue to seek shortcuts in the residential neighborhoods.

That's right - nobody needs or is buying additional housing right now - that demand is magically divined by the evil smart growth crowd.

The NIMBY's stayed away from the Safeway fight because the neighbors were by and large a reasonable and open minded group - it will be interesting to see what the NIMBY's do when that same group of neighbors realizes what a bad proposal this is for them.

The NIMBY's haven't been around to own the mess that Friendship Heights continues to be because of their stewardship so I'm sure they will step back here as well.

And WRT to TT - LOL - we should only improve one part of the streetscape huh? Of course if you are a NIMBY and just drive to Tenleytown that is the only piece you would be concerned with anyhow.

Thank God for the NIMBY's - if developers had their way, Wisconsin Ave would look like Rockville Pike

Huh - it does look like Rockville Pike! Lots of cars, surface parking lots, ugly low rise buildings, excessive curb cuts, dangerous pedestrian crossings at car oriented intersections, little residential density etc.

But your comparison is stupid - Wisconsin Avenue, despite also being the Rockville Pike, is governed by DC's zoning laws not Montgomery Counties so if the NIMBY's would get out of the way the Avenue would likely evolve to resemble other thriving parts of DC.

Like what? I think that Chevy Chase and Cleveland Park along Connecticut Avenue are pretty thriving neighborhoods, but methinks that isn't the "thriving" model that the Greater Greater Growthers have in mind.

You must not get out of the car much or be able to turn your head - Connecticut Avenue is lined with apartment buildings, some of which are up to 14 stories tall where they back into RCP, almost all of which are taller and denser than what Safeway had proposed for the now GDS site and most of those buildings are even older than the people fighting development in TT. And FWIW those buildings in most cases have no buffer to the adjacent SFH's.

So you prefer the Wisconsin or Connecticut Avenue model?

The Connecticut Avenue"model" is kind of interesting if you know about Washington city planning, because it was planned with areas of apartment buildings, typically set back from the street with wide lawns, interspersed with districts of low-density retail (think Woodley, Cleveland Park, the area around Politics & Prose and Chevy Chase DC. Really dense "mixed-use" wasn't really part of the equation. The lawns and park-like setting for many of the apartments were so important, that they are considered part of the historic landmark if the buildings are landmarked (as the Kennedy-Warren, Broodmoor and many others are). You see a bit of the Connecticut Avenue "model" with McLean Gardens and the Fannie Mae properties, where buildings are set back with green space. Sidwell Friends and the new GDS campus do (or will) provide more green setback. So, yes, the traditional Connecticut Avenue template is certainly a good one.

I see - so you have no concerns about density and only design?

But again you clearly have not walked Connecticut Avenue - there are some buildings with courtyards and setbacks (some of which are quite large buildings btw) and there are buildings with no courtyards where the entire bulk of the building goes right up to the sidewalk.

But you still dodged the question.

I think Chevy Chase DC and Cleveland Park are great models. In fact, when the architects designed Bethesda Row along Bethesda Ave., they attempted to create a Disney-fied version of the Connecticut Avenue commercial district in CP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This had to be done, but it's kind of a big FU to current families and recent grads.

Why?

They likely won't have to pay for it.

[Anonymous]

Wonder if they will increase class sizes? could be a great thing if more slots open up. Any word on that front?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's great that GDS may finally have a real private school campus.

Welcome to the 21st Century Grasshopper

Yup - a real private school campus for mostly suburban MD students who almost exclusively drive to the current school on a major commercial corridor that will forever kill any chance of revitalization of the Wisconsin Avenue corridor while costing DC tens of millions in annual property tax revenue. Oh and the campus will require closing a DC street to get its private feel.

DC always lusts for more tax revenue, but frankly the District government needs more tax revenue the way a crack addict needs more crack. DC should address its "substance abuse" problem first -- the array of sweetheart business deals with Jeffrey Thompson are just the tip of the pay to play iceberg -- and get its fiscal and contracting house in order, before rubber-stamping ever more development in search of the almighty tax dollar.

Well, how about this then: Perhaps GDS should just pick up and move to Potomac, or perhaps Germantown. Frankly, I'm sick of all of the MD residents flooding their kids into DC every day anyway, without paying for use of our services.

What a reasoned and ground-breaking policy proposal. You should run for office.

[Anonymous]

GDS is shockingly tone deaf about neighborhood concerns. Always has been, and still is. They think this is going to be a cake walk for them because they are wealthy and self-satisfied. Makes me laugh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GDS is shockingly tone deaf about neighborhood concerns. Always has been, and still is. They think this is going to be a cake walk for them because they are wealthy and self-satisfied. Makes me laugh.

You don't live in Mayberry, you live in a major Metropolitan city. Put the smelling salts away and deal with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GDS is shockingly tone deaf about neighborhood concerns. Always has been, and still is. They think this is going to be a cake walk for them because they are wealthy and self-satisfied. Makes me laugh.

You don't live in Mayberry, you live in a major Metropolitan city. Put the smelling salts away and deal with it.

You are absolutely correct. Tenleytown doesn't want a country day school like GDS. That belongs in the country, like Mayberry. All the wealth at GDS disposal pales before Safeway's wealth. "Look on Safeway's work, ye mighty, and despair!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GDS is shockingly tone deaf about neighborhood concerns. Always has been, and still is. They think this is going to be a cake walk for them because they are wealthy and self-satisfied. Makes me laugh.

You don't live in Mayberry, you live in a major Metropolitan city. Put the smelling salts away and deal with it.

You are absolutely correct. Tenleytown doesn't want a country day school like GDS. That belongs in the country, like Mayberry. All the wealth at GDS disposal pales before Safeway's wealth. "Look on Safeway's work, ye mighty, and despair!"

Sorry, Ozymandias -- I think you were going for witty but you got stuck on incoherent.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, GDS-educated poetry "scholar," but even with Mary Cheh's bias toward GDS, you will soon learn that money doesn't buy zoning approvals in Tenleytown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, GDS-educated poetry "scholar," but even with Mary Cheh's bias toward GDS, you will soon learn that money doesn't buy zoning approvals in Tenleytown.

Better GDS than another Generic Dreck Shopping development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, GDS-educated poetry "scholar," but even with Mary Cheh's bias toward GDS, you will soon learn that money doesn't buy zoning approvals in Tenleytown.

Nope, not from GDS or affiliated with GDS in any way -- just interested in a thread about land use issues in DC as they involve private schools. (Don't get snippy because your original incoherent Shelley reference fell flat.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know the numbers for the Safeway development, but the traffic engineers for Cathedral Commons testified that it would generate an additional 4000 vehicle trips per day above the level of the previous Giant shopping center. And that was before the developers broke ground and then started marketing it in their materials as a "destination" rather than a neighborhood retail center. DDOT's chief traffic engineer later said it's a safe bet to take the developer traffic estimates and then double them. This is a lot more traffic than what a private school generates.

Thanks -- this is a good post with specifics that advance the discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The Connecticut Avenue"model" is kind of interesting if you know about Washington city planning, because it was planned with areas of apartment buildings, typically set back from the street with wide lawns, interspersed with districts of low-density retail (think Woodley, Cleveland Park, the area around Politics & Prose and Chevy Chase DC. Really dense "mixed-use" wasn't really part of the equation. The lawns and park-like setting for many of the apartments were so important, that they are considered part of the historic landmark if the buildings are landmarked (as the Kennedy-Warren, Broodmoor and many others are). You see a bit of the Connecticut Avenue "model" with McLean Gardens and the Fannie Mae properties, where buildings are set back with green space. Sidwell Friends and the new GDS campus do (or will) provide more green setback. So, yes, the traditional Connecticut Avenue template is certainly a good one.

They key difference is that Connecticut Avenue has the residential density along the avenue to somewhat support the retail nodes (except for the dying Cleveland Park). Without the same kind of residential density along Wisconsin Avenue, there will never be a fully realized retail environment. I suppose the dead space that GDS will create along Wisconsin Avenue fits the vision of those who oppose change to a tee.