Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.
This is more equitable.
the ones I know about do not ask for parents income
Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.
UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.
Is the UK the only country in Europe?
And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.
Okay, I'll try the "I want to pay tuition at last year's rate" line and let you know how that works.
If that doesn't work, try the "England is not the only country in Europe."
And I say England because universities in Scotland and Wales are still essentially free.
Whiner.
Funny. My Scottish cousins were just over here, and they werre complaining about the cost of university in Scotland. My Scottish cousins are middle class and most have PhDs. Sure, it's low in Scotland, but it's not "essentially free".
Ignoramus.
For Scottish students, current undergrad tuition in The University of Edinburgh is less than £2,000.
Who is the ignoramus here? Do you have fun with your whiner cousins?
So what you're saying is, all those kids in London should go back in time and get born in Scotland? Or maybe they should establish residency in Scotland? Maybe we should all establish residency in Scotland? Scotland is lovely (except in December), but it's pretty hard to just up and move there.
You make no sense.
I am not saying much other than stating some facts to correct what some ignorami were spreading here. The original post by OP was written from the perspective of an American potentially studying abroad, but later the thread evolved into a comparative discussion of European vs American systems from their respective, local perspectives. For better or worse, and as a general statement, European still get access to great universities at very affordable tuition fees.
You know, you're right - Europeans are able to get access to great educations at a lower cost than US students. The fact remains, though, that you are trying to compare apples to oranges. The systems are different and offer vastly different experiences.
However, quite frankly you could have said the above about the relative cost of education in Europe as compared to the US much sooner and without the continued and unnecessary vitriol directed to US universities and Americans in general. I don't know where in Europe you are from since you haven't identified yourself, but you have not represented them very well. Most people with a common sense of respect know that putting people on the defensive and continuing to "throw stones" simply does not help you. I'm going to assume you are not in the diplomatic corps...
Here is a bold idea: perhaps there is more than one European in this thread? Because I have not added any vitriol to this discussion, so I don't know what you are talking about. Think twice before you make ad hominem comments.
+1
Seriously, PPs keep talking as if there is a single person responding to them.
Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.
This is more equitable.
the ones I know about do not ask for parents income
Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.
UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.
Is the UK the only country in Europe?
And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.
Okay, I'll try the "I want to pay tuition at last year's rate" line and let you know how that works.
If that doesn't work, try the "England is not the only country in Europe."
And I say England because universities in Scotland and Wales are still essentially free.
Whiner.
Funny. My Scottish cousins were just over here, and they werre complaining about the cost of university in Scotland. My Scottish cousins are middle class and most have PhDs. Sure, it's low in Scotland, but it's not "essentially free".
Ignoramus.
For Scottish students, current undergrad tuition in The University of Edinburgh is less than £2,000.
Who is the ignoramus here? Do you have fun with your whiner cousins?
So what you're saying is, all those kids in London should go back in time and get born in Scotland? Or maybe they should establish residency in Scotland? Maybe we should all establish residency in Scotland? Scotland is lovely (except in December), but it's pretty hard to just up and move there.
You make no sense.
I am not saying much other than stating some facts to correct what some ignorami were spreading here. The original post by OP was written from the perspective of an American potentially studying abroad, but later the thread evolved into a comparative discussion of European vs American systems from their respective, local perspectives. For better or worse, and as a general statement, European still get access to great universities at very affordable tuition fees.
You know, you're right - Europeans are able to get access to great educations at a lower cost than US students. The fact remains, though, that you are trying to compare apples to oranges. The systems are different and offer vastly different experiences.
However, quite frankly you could have said the above about the relative cost of education in Europe as compared to the US much sooner and without the continued and unnecessary vitriol directed to US universities and Americans in general. I don't know where in Europe you are from since you haven't identified yourself, but you have not represented them very well. Most people with a common sense of respect know that putting people on the defensive and continuing to "throw stones" simply does not help you. I'm going to assume you are not in the diplomatic corps...
Here is a bold idea: perhaps there is more than one European in this thread? Because I have not added any vitriol to this discussion, so I don't know what you are talking about. Think twice before you make ad hominem comments.
My apologies then if you were not the PP (or PP's…) who continued to post vitriol rather than a reasoned discussion. To be honest, I should have realized that your tone was quite different then the PP. However, the point of my argument remains the same (and certainly should be read by the disrespectful PP's) - there is no need to post disrespectful and demeaning comments about the US university system in order to make your point that European universities are good. Different systems = different experiences.
My apologies then if you were not the PP (or PP's…) who continued to post vitriol rather than a reasoned discussion. To be honest, I should have realized that your tone was quite different then the PP. However, the point of my argument remains the same (and certainly should be read by the disrespectful PP's) - there is no need to post disrespectful and demeaning comments about the US university system in order to make your point that European universities are good. Different systems = different experiences.
+1. As the uncivil European PP refuses to identify her country, all we can do is call her the "European PP". My apologies to the other Europeans on this thread for my own annoyed responses to the uncivil European PP. ("UEPP"?)
My apologies then if you were not the PP (or PP's…) who continued to post vitriol rather than a reasoned discussion. To be honest, I should have realized that your tone was quite different then the PP. However, the point of my argument remains the same (and certainly should be read by the disrespectful PP's) - there is no need to post disrespectful and demeaning comments about the US university system in order to make your point that European universities are good. Different systems = different experiences.
+1. As the uncivil European PP refuses to identify her country, all we can do is call her the "European PP". My apologies to the other Europeans on this thread for my own annoyed responses to the uncivil European PP. ("UEPP"?)
Great idea. And, from now on, let's start calling all uncivil American PPs here in DCUM "American PP." Not to overgeneralize, of course.
People, can't we find a better way to spend our collective time?
My apologies then if you were not the PP (or PP's…) who continued to post vitriol rather than a reasoned discussion. To be honest, I should have realized that your tone was quite different then the PP. However, the point of my argument remains the same (and certainly should be read by the disrespectful PP's) - there is no need to post disrespectful and demeaning comments about the US university system in order to make your point that European universities are good. Different systems = different experiences.
+1. As the uncivil European PP refuses to identify her country, all we can do is call her the "European PP". My apologies to the other Europeans on this thread for my own annoyed responses to the uncivil European PP. ("UEPP"?)
Great idea. And, from now on, let's start calling all uncivil American PPs here in DCUM "American PP." Not to overgeneralize, of course.
People, can't we find a better way to spend our collective time?
Sure. If we can only convince the abusive European here to stop posting demonstrable utter nonsense, then it won't be necessary to derail the thread to rebut said utter nonsense.
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