Montgomery County - What Happened?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My perspective is that there MoCo has a huge, and ever growing, population of low-income illegal immigrants.

Also, Maryland and MoCo are anti-business, pro-tax jurisdictions. It would defy logic for any major business operation to stand up operations in MoCo.

The County Executive and Council have implemented sanctuary policies that prohibit local law enforcement from cooperating with Federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).

That is not true. They have implemented policies that follow the constitution. Under Obama, he was able to for relationships between ICE and moco police so ICE could deport criminals (not preschool teachers) and not violate the constitution. Obama deported more immigrants from MOCO than any other president.

...it was also most from US than any other president (until now don't know how numbers compare to current president)

[Anonymous]

I don’t know why this is complicated. MoCo simply has faltered in terms of large and mid size corporate growth over the past decade or so — this is a fairly simple concept but people on here like to “debate” this offer and over.

This is due to a few factors, but two of which are key:

1) geography / preexisting conditions— MoCo was far more developed going back decades as compared to NoVa, which still had plenty of farm land and close as Dulles well into the 90’s and early 2000’s. What this allowed was the accommodations (land) necessary for the emergence of the data center industry, which was complementary to the existing presence of the pentagon and defense contracting industries. This spurred follow on tech / IT growth and the resulting job growth that has led to a massive wealth boom in NoVa.

2) pro growth politics, and I’ll caveat this by saying that this isn’t a democrat republican thing as both are blue counties in blue states, though I will say that Maryland is decidedly more progressive, which can be a negative thing when this takes an anti-corporate posture. Virginia has seemingly done a far better job in attracting corporations. Coupled with a lower overall tax burden, it’s no surprise that corporates prefer Virginia

3) pro immigrant politics — again, Maryland is decidedly more progressive, which has led to a relatively greater influx of undocumented immigrants driving down median metrics. In addition, immigrants absorb existing housing stock, and we have seen areas like Wheaton and parts of Silver Spring shift more towards predominantly Latino working class enclaves, while the former middle class population has moved either up county or to other states.

Why this is controversial is beyond me — it is just a fact of life. Areas change.

[Anonymous]

It’s controversial for Moco folks for a few reasons:

1 Unwillingness to believe it was their political choice that caused the problem. They’ve been voting against business and for immigration for 4 decades and thought it was the right thing and didn’t think about the consequences.

2. Most people in the nice parts of Moco (lots of DCUM) could care less about the decline of the county or don’t even see it and have blinders on. They are keeping up just fine, and only get annoyed around school boundary debates.

3. Disdain for their nouveau riche NOVA neighbors distinct lack of taste. And here’s where I agree with them — all of the business development resulted in a gilded tacky dystopia that will age horribly. With that in mind, it’s hard to believe NOVA is ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why this is complicated. MoCo simply has faltered in terms of large and mid size corporate growth over the past decade or so — this is a fairly simple concept but people on here like to “debate” this offer and over.

This is due to a few factors, but two of which are key:

1) geography / preexisting conditions— MoCo was far more developed going back decades as compared to NoVa, which still had plenty of farm land and close as Dulles well into the 90’s and early 2000’s. What this allowed was the accommodations (land) necessary for the emergence of the data center industry, which was complementary to the existing presence of the pentagon and defense contracting industries. This spurred follow on tech / IT growth and the resulting job growth that has led to a massive wealth boom in NoVa.

2) pro growth politics, and I’ll caveat this by saying that this isn’t a democrat republican thing as both are blue counties in blue states, though I will say that Maryland is decidedly more progressive, which can be a negative thing when this takes an anti-corporate posture. Virginia has seemingly done a far better job in attracting corporations. Coupled with a lower overall tax burden, it’s no surprise that corporates prefer Virginia

3) pro immigrant politics — again, Maryland is decidedly more progressive, which has led to a relatively greater influx of undocumented immigrants driving down median metrics. In addition, immigrants absorb existing housing stock, and we have seen areas like Wheaton and parts of Silver Spring shift more towards predominantly Latino working class enclaves, while the former middle class population has moved either up county or to other states.

Why this is controversial is beyond me — it is just a fact of life. Areas change.

On No. 1, MoCo had and continues to have a vast amount of farmland. It chose to make it off limits, just like it chose to believe that roads were evil because of “induced demand.” YIMBYs oddly are some of the biggest complainers about “induced demand” which is odd because roads induce demand for housing and offices, which developers are happy to build when there’s demand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s controversial for Moco folks for a few reasons:

1 Unwillingness to believe it was their political choice that caused the problem. They’ve been voting against business and for immigration for 4 decades and thought it was the right thing and didn’t think about the consequences.

2. Most people in the nice parts of Moco (lots of DCUM) could care less about the decline of the county or don’t even see it and have blinders on. They are keeping up just fine, and only get annoyed around school boundary debates.

3. Disdain for their nouveau riche NOVA neighbors distinct lack of taste. And here’s where I agree with them — all of the business development resulted in a gilded tacky dystopia that will age horribly. With that in mind, it’s hard to believe NOVA is ahead.

I think you nailed it. MoCo posters — look, just accept the W that the nicer suburban parts of MoCo are leafier and nicer and more established feeling than McLean etc. That’s a W — however your county has dropped significantly in economic standing while theirs has increased.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s controversial for Moco folks for a few reasons:

1 Unwillingness to believe it was their political choice that caused the problem. They’ve been voting against business and for immigration for 4 decades and thought it was the right thing and didn’t think about the consequences.

2. Most people in the nice parts of Moco (lots of DCUM) could care less about the decline of the county or don’t even see it and have blinders on. They are keeping up just fine, and only get annoyed around school boundary debates.

3. Disdain for their nouveau riche NOVA neighbors distinct lack of taste. And here’s where I agree with them — all of the business development resulted in a gilded tacky dystopia that will age horribly. With that in mind, it’s hard to believe NOVA is ahead.

I think you nailed it. MoCo posters — look, just accept the W that the nicer suburban parts of MoCo are leafier and nicer and more established feeling than McLean etc. That’s a W — however your county has dropped significantly in economic standing while theirs has increased.

I don’t wish to accept that. I think the county’s leaders have made a big mistake by spending nearly all of their economic development money on handouts for landlords. If they had spent that money on attracting businesses they wouldn’t have to subsidize market rate apartment builders and would have more money to spend on subsidized housing for people who need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s controversial for Moco folks for a few reasons:

1 Unwillingness to believe it was their political choice that caused the problem. They’ve been voting against business and for immigration for 4 decades and thought it was the right thing and didn’t think about the consequences.

2. Most people in the nice parts of Moco (lots of DCUM) could care less about the decline of the county or don’t even see it and have blinders on. They are keeping up just fine, and only get annoyed around school boundary debates.

3. Disdain for their nouveau riche NOVA neighbors distinct lack of taste. And here’s where I agree with them — all of the business development resulted in a gilded tacky dystopia that will age horribly. With that in mind, it’s hard to believe NOVA is ahead.

I think you nailed it. MoCo posters — look, just accept the W that the nicer suburban parts of MoCo are leafier and nicer and more established feeling than McLean etc. That’s a W — however your county has dropped significantly in economic standing while theirs has increased.

I don’t wish to accept that. I think the county’s leaders have made a big mistake by spending nearly all of their economic development money on handouts for landlords. If they had spent that money on attracting businesses they wouldn’t have to subsidize market rate apartment builders and would have more money to spend on subsidized housing for people who need it.

I love how your answer to MoCo’s lack of business growth is spend money and subsidize the poor. This is why MoCo is declining — because the majority voters want higher taxes, and more spending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do we need to be #1? I especially don’t want it if it means living among giant data centers everywhere.

But they aren't "everywhere." NOVA and MoCo are so large that many of the posts in this thread are meaningless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve been a MoCo resident and I look forward to moving out when our jobs and kid’s schools don’t keep us in this area. The schools aren’t that great, despite the ratings. Too much focus on nonsense, not enough on real education. Allowing illegal immigration doesn’t bring jobs and lowers safety, especially for women. The area can’t even keep any luxury shopping, unlike tysons or even city center. It’s beyond me why anyone would want to be here as a business owner. So many better options. We’ll make our millions here and happily move to another jurisdiction in retirement.

As someone who fled an Islamic regime that oppressed women and forced them to wear veils, it’s beyond disturbing to me to see more and more of them walking around. So sad to see young girls forced to cover themselves and see others applaud it based on diversity. You really are a naive bunch. Those of us who fled a revolution know what is and isn’t voluntary.

What you've described in the bolded text above is probably 20 times more prevalent in NoVA than in MoCo. I spend a lot of time in both areas, and it's not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s controversial for Moco folks for a few reasons:

1 Unwillingness to believe it was their political choice that caused the problem. They’ve been voting against business and for immigration for 4 decades and thought it was the right thing and didn’t think about the consequences.

2. Most people in the nice parts of Moco (lots of DCUM) could care less about the decline of the county or don’t even see it and have blinders on. They are keeping up just fine, and only get annoyed around school boundary debates.

3. Disdain for their nouveau riche NOVA neighbors distinct lack of taste. And here’s where I agree with them — all of the business development resulted in a gilded tacky dystopia that will age horribly. With that in mind, it’s hard to believe NOVA is ahead.

I think you nailed it. MoCo posters — look, just accept the W that the nicer suburban parts of MoCo are leafier and nicer and more established feeling than McLean etc. That’s a W — however your county has dropped significantly in economic standing while theirs has increased.

I don’t wish to accept that. I think the county’s leaders have made a big mistake by spending nearly all of their economic development money on handouts for landlords. If they had spent that money on attracting businesses they wouldn’t have to subsidize market rate apartment builders and would have more money to spend on subsidized housing for people who need it.

I love how your answer to MoCo’s lack of business growth is spend money and subsidize the poor. This is why MoCo is declining — because the majority voters want higher taxes, and more spending.

You misunderstood. I want to spend economic development money on attracting businesses. Andrew Friedson has been spending it on bailing out his donors who overpaid for land.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s controversial for Moco folks for a few reasons:

1 Unwillingness to believe it was their political choice that caused the problem. They’ve been voting against business and for immigration for 4 decades and thought it was the right thing and didn’t think about the consequences.

2. Most people in the nice parts of Moco (lots of DCUM) could care less about the decline of the county or don’t even see it and have blinders on. They are keeping up just fine, and only get annoyed around school boundary debates.

3. Disdain for their nouveau riche NOVA neighbors distinct lack of taste. And here’s where I agree with them — all of the business development resulted in a gilded tacky dystopia that will age horribly. With that in mind, it’s hard to believe NOVA is ahead.

I think you nailed it. MoCo posters — look, just accept the W that the nicer suburban parts of MoCo are leafier and nicer and more established feeling than McLean etc. That’s a W — however your county has dropped significantly in economic standing while theirs has increased.

I don’t wish to accept that. I think the county’s leaders have made a big mistake by spending nearly all of their economic development money on handouts for landlords. If they had spent that money on attracting businesses they wouldn’t have to subsidize market rate apartment builders and would have more money to spend on subsidized housing for people who need it.

I love how your answer to MoCo’s lack of business growth is spend money and subsidize the poor. This is why MoCo is declining — because the majority voters want higher taxes, and more spending.

Forgot increased crime. High stores near the Rio Gaithersburg are robbed on a regular basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s controversial for Moco folks for a few reasons:

1 Unwillingness to believe it was their political choice that caused the problem. They’ve been voting against business and for immigration for 4 decades and thought it was the right thing and didn’t think about the consequences.

2. Most people in the nice parts of Moco (lots of DCUM) could care less about the decline of the county or don’t even see it and have blinders on. They are keeping up just fine, and only get annoyed around school boundary debates.

3. Disdain for their nouveau riche NOVA neighbors distinct lack of taste. And here’s where I agree with them — all of the business development resulted in a gilded tacky dystopia that will age horribly. With that in mind, it’s hard to believe NOVA is ahead.

I think you nailed it. MoCo posters — look, just accept the W that the nicer suburban parts of MoCo are leafier and nicer and more established feeling than McLean etc. That’s a W — however your county has dropped significantly in economic standing while theirs has increased.

I don’t wish to accept that. I think the county’s leaders have made a big mistake by spending nearly all of their economic development money on handouts for landlords. If they had spent that money on attracting businesses they wouldn’t have to subsidize market rate apartment builders and would have more money to spend on subsidized housing for people who need it.

I love how your answer to MoCo’s lack of business growth is spend money and subsidize the poor. This is why MoCo is declining — because the majority voters want higher taxes, and more spending.

Forgot increased crime. High stores near the Rio Gaithersburg are robbed on a regular basis.

Except historically crime is that it’s lowest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don’t wish to accept that. I think the county’s leaders have made a big mistake by spending nearly all of their economic development money on handouts for landlords. If they had spent that money on attracting businesses they wouldn’t have to subsidize market rate apartment builders and would have more money to spend on subsidized housing for people who need it.

I love how your answer to MoCo’s lack of business growth is spend money and subsidize the poor. This is why MoCo is declining — because the majority voters want higher taxes, and more spending.

Forgot increased crime. High end stores near the Rio Gaithersburg are robbed on a regular basis.

Except historically crime is that it’s lowest.

Yes, I know. These people come in, calmly take what they want and leave. No more smash and grab required.
They know they'll get away with it and the stores don't report it. It's ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s controversial for Moco folks for a few reasons:

1 Unwillingness to believe it was their political choice that caused the problem. They’ve been voting against business and for immigration for 4 decades and thought it was the right thing and didn’t think about the consequences.

2. Most people in the nice parts of Moco (lots of DCUM) could care less about the decline of the county or don’t even see it and have blinders on. They are keeping up just fine, and only get annoyed around school boundary debates.

3. Disdain for their nouveau riche NOVA neighbors distinct lack of taste. And here’s where I agree with them — all of the business development resulted in a gilded tacky dystopia that will age horribly. With that in mind, it’s hard to believe NOVA is ahead.

I think you nailed it. MoCo posters — look, just accept the W that the nicer suburban parts of MoCo are leafier and nicer and more established feeling than McLean etc. That’s a W — however your county has dropped significantly in economic standing while theirs has increased.

I don’t wish to accept that. I think the county’s leaders have made a big mistake by spending nearly all of their economic development money on handouts for landlords. If they had spent that money on attracting businesses they wouldn’t have to subsidize market rate apartment builders and would have more money to spend on subsidized housing for people who need it.

I love how your answer to MoCo’s lack of business growth is spend money and subsidize the poor. This is why MoCo is declining — because the majority voters want higher taxes, and more spending.

No. No sane people want higher taxes. They want responsible fiscal management - and that doesn't exist. Look at Elrich's net zero initiative: adding 5-10% cost to every capital project, which in turn adds to debt service. That should be a want to have, not a need to have. And we didn't have room in the budget for it. There are loads of programs like that. Universal basic income pilot project for example. Get back to the basics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s controversial for Moco folks for a few reasons:

1 Unwillingness to believe it was their political choice that caused the problem. They’ve been voting against business and for immigration for 4 decades and thought it was the right thing and didn’t think about the consequences.

2. Most people in the nice parts of Moco (lots of DCUM) could care less about the decline of the county or don’t even see it and have blinders on. They are keeping up just fine, and only get annoyed around school boundary debates.

3. Disdain for their nouveau riche NOVA neighbors distinct lack of taste. And here’s where I agree with them — all of the business development resulted in a gilded tacky dystopia that will age horribly. With that in mind, it’s hard to believe NOVA is ahead.

I think you nailed it. MoCo posters — look, just accept the W that the nicer suburban parts of MoCo are leafier and nicer and more established feeling than McLean etc. That’s a W — however your county has dropped significantly in economic standing while theirs has increased.

I don’t wish to accept that. I think the county’s leaders have made a big mistake by spending nearly all of their economic development money on handouts for landlords. If they had spent that money on attracting businesses they wouldn’t have to subsidize market rate apartment builders and would have more money to spend on subsidized housing for people who need it.

I love how your answer to MoCo’s lack of business growth is spend money and subsidize the poor. This is why MoCo is declining — because the majority voters want higher taxes, and more spending.

Forgot increased crime. High stores near the Rio Gaithersburg are robbed on a regular basis.

Except historically crime is that it’s lowest.

It's low compared to other jurisdictions. But it isn't at its lowest yet. And there are some areas where it's really bad. Those residents deserve safety too.