Elite law and Big law

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in for a major DC firm in San Francisco. The T14 was well represented, but so were other in-state schools like Hastings (now UCSF?), UC Davis, UCLA, and USC. Once you were hired, no cared where you went to law school. They only cared about the quality of your work and, of course, whether you billed 2000+ hours annually. I can't speak for NYC firms though. But I recall that Munger Tolles in LA was known for focusing on the tippy top T14 schools and/or people who had prestigious circuit clerkships. (I would not have wanted to work there.)

Munger Tolles, Susman Godfrey, Cravath, and Wachtell are at a different level altogether. I graduated in the top half of my class at HLS and had no chance at any of these firms.

Is that for real? I knew firms of that ilk were selective, but that's nuts.

Of course it’s for real. The top DC-based firms—Covington, Wilmer, Williams—aren’t likely to hire a Harvard grad who is just “too half of the class” either. No way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in for a major DC firm in San Francisco. The T14 was well represented, but so were other in-state schools like Hastings (now UCSF?), UC Davis, UCLA, and USC. Once you were hired, no cared where you went to law school. They only cared about the quality of your work and, of course, whether you billed 2000+ hours annually. I can't speak for NYC firms though. But I recall that Munger Tolles in LA was known for focusing on the tippy top T14 schools and/or people who had prestigious circuit clerkships. (I would not have wanted to work there.)

Munger Tolles, Susman Godfrey, Cravath, and Wachtell are at a different level altogether. I graduated in the top half of my class at HLS and had no chance at any of these firms.

Is that for real? I knew firms of that ilk were selective, but that's nuts.

Of course it’s for real. The top DC-based firms—Covington, Wilmer, Williams—aren’t likely to hire a Harvard grad who is just “too half of the class” either. No way.

They might hire you as a lateral in a few years or as a partner if you are a rainmaker

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't find DC as "Ivy-fixated" as Boston or New York. DC isn't an old money town, there's no Ivy or Ivy-like school in the region. There is a lot of educational gatekeeping but it's more about the credential than the pedigree.

UVA is an Ivy.

[Anonymous]

DC doesn’t have an in-town T-14 like Chicago/NYC/Boston.

[Anonymous]

This thread is hilarious. Like satire but real. OP, is this your goal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in for a major DC firm in San Francisco. The T14 was well represented, but so were other in-state schools like Hastings (now UCSF?), UC Davis, UCLA, and USC. Once you were hired, no cared where you went to law school. They only cared about the quality of your work and, of course, whether you billed 2000+ hours annually. I can't speak for NYC firms though. But I recall that Munger Tolles in LA was known for focusing on the tippy top T14 schools and/or people who had prestigious circuit clerkships. (I would not have wanted to work there.)

Munger Tolles, Susman Godfrey, Cravath, and Wachtell are at a different level altogether. I graduated in the top half of my class at HLS and had no chance at any of these firms.

Is that for real? I knew firms of that ilk were selective, but that's nuts.

This is stupid and those firms are not at the top.

Not 100% accurate but it is close. You don't think Wachtell is at the top?

Wachtell is. Should have noted that but those others are not even close. It’s Wachtell and Kirkland and a big gap to everyone else.

Cravath is at least close.

Eh. Definitely disagree about Kirkland. I don’t know anyone who actively wants to work there, especially at the more senior levels knowing their reputation. I didn’t receive a callback interview from cravath after 1L based on grades (I had around a 3.4 or 3.5 after 1L), but a partner made me an offer during 3L after I took his class. I politely declined and went to the V10 I had summered at and already accepted an offer to. (Not any of the ones listed here already as “most” prestigious.) it’s just a matter of perspective/personal choice.

You don’t know top lawyers seeking to get paid for their services then. There is no debating the salary difference between WLRK and KE and everyone else. There have been years where KE partners pulled $30 million each. And I am not talking about 1 or 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in for a major DC firm in San Francisco. The T14 was well represented, but so were other in-state schools like Hastings (now UCSF?), UC Davis, UCLA, and USC. Once you were hired, no cared where you went to law school. They only cared about the quality of your work and, of course, whether you billed 2000+ hours annually. I can't speak for NYC firms though. But I recall that Munger Tolles in LA was known for focusing on the tippy top T14 schools and/or people who had prestigious circuit clerkships. (I would not have wanted to work there.)

Munger Tolles, Susman Godfrey, Cravath, and Wachtell are at a different level altogether. I graduated in the top half of my class at HLS and had no chance at any of these firms.

Is that for real? I knew firms of that ilk were selective, but that's nuts.

This is stupid and those firms are not at the top.

Not 100% accurate but it is close. You don't think Wachtell is at the top?

Wachtell is. Should have noted that but those others are not even close. It’s Wachtell and Kirkland and a big gap to everyone else.

Cravath is at least close.

Eh. Definitely disagree about Kirkland. I don’t know anyone who actively wants to work there, especially at the more senior levels knowing their reputation. I didn’t receive a callback interview from cravath after 1L based on grades (I had around a 3.4 or 3.5 after 1L), but a partner made me an offer during 3L after I took his class. I politely declined and went to the V10 I had summered at and already accepted an offer to. (Not any of the ones listed here already as “most” prestigious.) it’s just a matter of perspective/personal choice.

You don’t know top lawyers seeking to get paid for their services then. There is no debating the salary difference between WLRK and KE and everyone else. There have been years where KE partners pulled $30 million each. And I am not talking about 1 or 2.

Very different culture between the two. You couldn't pay me enough to sell my soul to KE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Georgetown used to be T14.

Also don't forget about Notre Dame, we have a SCOTUS from ND.

Fordham grads probably do a lot of contract review at the big law. Not the same as Columbia grads. Completely different tracks.

Georgetown sort of defines where the T-14 ends.

The reason law schools have a T-14 instead of a T-10 or T-20 is because Georgetown typically ranks around 14.

Georgetown has nothing to do with it. There are currently four T14s then the drop. The reason discussion stops at T14 is because there is a significant drop to T18, which is Cornell. Georgetown itself, recently a year or two ago, dropped out of the T14.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in for a major DC firm in San Francisco. The T14 was well represented, but so were other in-state schools like Hastings (now UCSF?), UC Davis, UCLA, and USC. Once you were hired, no cared where you went to law school. They only cared about the quality of your work and, of course, whether you billed 2000+ hours annually. I can't speak for NYC firms though. But I recall that Munger Tolles in LA was known for focusing on the tippy top T14 schools and/or people who had prestigious circuit clerkships. (I would not have wanted to work there.)

Munger Tolles, Susman Godfrey, Cravath, and Wachtell are at a different level altogether. I graduated in the top half of my class at HLS and had no chance at any of these firms.

Is that for real? I knew firms of that ilk were selective, but that's nuts.

This is stupid and those firms are not at the top.

Not 100% accurate but it is close. You don't think Wachtell is at the top?

Wachtell is. Should have noted that but those others are not even close. It’s Wachtell and Kirkland and a big gap to everyone else.

Cravath is at least close.

Eh. Definitely disagree about Kirkland. I don’t know anyone who actively wants to work there, especially at the more senior levels knowing their reputation. I didn’t receive a callback interview from cravath after 1L based on grades (I had around a 3.4 or 3.5 after 1L), but a partner made me an offer during 3L after I took his class. I politely declined and went to the V10 I had summered at and already accepted an offer to. (Not any of the ones listed here already as “most” prestigious.) it’s just a matter of perspective/personal choice.

You don’t know top lawyers seeking to get paid for their services then. There is no debating the salary difference between WLRK and KE and everyone else. There have been years where KE partners pulled $30 million each. And I am not talking about 1 or 2.

Very different culture between the two. You couldn't pay me enough to sell my soul to KE.

What do you think the problem is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in for a major DC firm in San Francisco. The T14 was well represented, but so were other in-state schools like Hastings (now UCSF?), UC Davis, UCLA, and USC. Once you were hired, no cared where you went to law school. They only cared about the quality of your work and, of course, whether you billed 2000+ hours annually. I can't speak for NYC firms though. But I recall that Munger Tolles in LA was known for focusing on the tippy top T14 schools and/or people who had prestigious circuit clerkships. (I would not have wanted to work there.)

Munger Tolles, Susman Godfrey, Cravath, and Wachtell are at a different level altogether. I graduated in the top half of my class at HLS and had no chance at any of these firms.

Is that for real? I knew firms of that ilk were selective, but that's nuts.

This is stupid and those firms are not at the top.

Not 100% accurate but it is close. You don't think Wachtell is at the top?

Wachtell is. Should have noted that but those others are not even close. It’s Wachtell and Kirkland and a big gap to everyone else.

Cravath is at least close.

Eh. Definitely disagree about Kirkland. I don’t know anyone who actively wants to work there, especially at the more senior levels knowing their reputation. I didn’t receive a callback interview from cravath after 1L based on grades (I had around a 3.4 or 3.5 after 1L), but a partner made me an offer during 3L after I took his class. I politely declined and went to the V10 I had summered at and already accepted an offer to. (Not any of the ones listed here already as “most” prestigious.) it’s just a matter of perspective/personal choice.

You don’t know top lawyers seeking to get paid for their services then. There is no debating the salary difference between WLRK and KE and everyone else. There have been years where KE partners pulled $30 million each. And I am not talking about 1 or 2.

Very different culture between the two. You couldn't pay me enough to sell my soul to KE.

Considering you spend your time as a lawyer on a mummy putting down other law firms where you could have made a lot more money, I doubt Kirkland would want you now, either

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in for a major DC firm in San Francisco. The T14 was well represented, but so were other in-state schools like Hastings (now UCSF?), UC Davis, UCLA, and USC. Once you were hired, no cared where you went to law school. They only cared about the quality of your work and, of course, whether you billed 2000+ hours annually. I can't speak for NYC firms though. But I recall that Munger Tolles in LA was known for focusing on the tippy top T14 schools and/or people who had prestigious circuit clerkships. (I would not have wanted to work there.)

Munger Tolles, Susman Godfrey, Cravath, and Wachtell are at a different level altogether. I graduated in the top half of my class at HLS and had no chance at any of these firms.

Is that for real? I knew firms of that ilk were selective, but that's nuts.

This is stupid and those firms are not at the top.

Not 100% accurate but it is close. You don't think Wachtell is at the top?

Wachtell is. Should have noted that but those others are not even close. It’s Wachtell and Kirkland and a big gap to everyone else.

Cravath is at least close.

Eh. Definitely disagree about Kirkland. I don’t know anyone who actively wants to work there, especially at the more senior levels knowing their reputation. I didn’t receive a callback interview from cravath after 1L based on grades (I had around a 3.4 or 3.5 after 1L), but a partner made me an offer during 3L after I took his class. I politely declined and went to the V10 I had summered at and already accepted an offer to. (Not any of the ones listed here already as “most” prestigious.) it’s just a matter of perspective/personal choice.

You don’t know top lawyers seeking to get paid for their services then. There is no debating the salary difference between WLRK and KE and everyone else. There have been years where KE partners pulled $30 million each. And I am not talking about 1 or 2.

Very different culture between the two. You couldn't pay me enough to sell my soul to KE.

That’s a different issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Georgetown used to be T14.

Also don't forget about Notre Dame, we have a SCOTUS from ND.

[b]Fordham grads probably do a lot of contract review at the big law. Not the same as Columbia grads. Completely different tracks.

This is the biggest BS I have ever heard!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Georgetown used to be T14.

Also don't forget about Notre Dame, we have a SCOTUS from ND.

Fordham grads probably do a lot of contract review at the big law. Not the same as Columbia grads. Completely different tracks.

You’re wrong about Fordham. OP is clearly talking specifically about NYC. Fordham law has a good name and good placement in NYC Biglaw. They’re not doing contract work. They’re getting the same associate jobs as the Columbia grads, just not as many.

You obviously never went to law school. Contract review work is not equivalent to contract worker. You also never worked at a big law, in whatever capacity.

And you’d be wrong. Just as you’re wrong to suggest that Fordham Law grads are somehow getting different jobs in the same firms as Columbia Law grads—not only in NYC but everywhere for that matter. They’re landing associate jobs, not “contract worker” jobs or whatever bullshit you’re going on about. As is apparently on this very thread, I’m not the only one contradicting you either.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC doesn’t have an in-town T-14 like Chicago/NYC/Boston.

DC has Georgetown right in town and UVA very close. Both send a lot of grads to top DC firms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Georgetown used to be T14.

Also don't forget about Notre Dame, we have a SCOTUS from ND.

Fordham grads probably do a lot of contract review at the big law. Not the same as Columbia grads. Completely different tracks.

Depends on the practice. I know a lot of IP lawyers from Fordham in biglaw.

I know several Fordham grads who are partners at top firms, including Skadden, doing M &A and securities law among other things.

For every "several Fordham" there are hundreds of Columbia. Statistically.

Law is a business that rely on connection a lot. These Fordham grads may have family connections so they are rain makers.

This is patently untrue. If you’re going to so self-assuredly throw shit out there, back it up with something real.

Biglaw does not rely on family connections much at all.

This is correct. A lot of firms have anti nepo policies.