Would you support your child in pursuing a degree in English Literature?

[Anonymous]

Yes! That's what I was planning to major in, but I ended up choosing something else in preparation for law school (never went, oops!)

I supported a kid pursuing a major in performance and a minor in jazz studies. He would not have finished college majoring in business, finance, econ, STEM etc. (or English lit for that matter) because he has no interest in those things. If he can make a go of doing what he loves (he's still in grad school) then who am I to try to stop him?

My other kid has a federal job related to her non-lucrative major and is happy. Not everyone needs or cares about making $200k when they're 23.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Underlying all these discussions but rarely stressed…you have to go to one of only like 20-30 schools to see tremendous financial success as an English major.

I doubt even the successful English majors on this thread would encourage their kid to be an English major at Radford or ODU or any o end thousands of different schools.

Hence why so many posts start with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…which is a far different reality for most kids.

Can you explain to me how t3 lacs are different? There are maybe a few ten thousand or so Williams or Swarthmore alum alive? It’s not like they have access to more than anyone else. It’s not like Harvard where half the government has graduated for the college- they’re pretty tiny places with little societal importance.

They aren’t…but several posts on this very thread started with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…that’s all.

Well you said that they’re a “far different reality” what about them? Most of those grads have to go to grad school, cause they don’t go to career-heavy colleges, seems they’re the type of people you should listen to

I don’t understand at all what you are trying to say. My point is you have to attend a top school to pursue any career from undergrad as an English major. Like a top 1% school…which is all the examples provided in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Underlying all these discussions but rarely stressed…you have to go to one of only like 20-30 schools to see tremendous financial success as an English major.

I doubt even the successful English majors on this thread would encourage their kid to be an English major at Radford or ODU or any o end thousands of different schools.

Hence why so many posts start with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…which is a far different reality for most kids.

That is true, but that is also true for truly top tech and stem positions, top CEOs, T14 law(which feeds to Big Law, Scotus etc), top med schools and phDs: those same 30 schools for undergrad are overrepresented at the top of all fields. Not necessarily by salary, and certainly not by salary less than 10 years out, but by overall prestige and impact. Top doctors at the cutting edge of research need to be in top hospital systems: these choose preferentially from top med schools, whose rosters have a significant overrepresentation of the same 30 undergrad institutions. Is the boost of undergrad pedigree bigger for English majors? Probably. But it exists all the same for all sectors of "white collar" jobs. Of course one can get to the top at schools outside these 30, but it becomes harder and harder the further down you go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Underlying all these discussions but rarely stressed…you have to go to one of only like 20-30 schools to see tremendous financial success as an English major.

I doubt even the successful English majors on this thread would encourage their kid to be an English major at Radford or ODU or any o end thousands of different schools.

Hence why so many posts start with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…which is a far different reality for most kids.

Can you explain to me how t3 lacs are different? There are maybe a few ten thousand or so Williams or Swarthmore alum alive? It’s not like they have access to more than anyone else. It’s not like Harvard where half the government has graduated for the college- they’re pretty tiny places with little societal importance.

They aren’t…but several posts on this very thread started with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…that’s all.

Well you said that they’re a “far different reality” what about them? Most of those grads have to go to grad school, cause they don’t go to career-heavy colleges, seems they’re the type of people you should listen to

I don’t understand at all what you are trying to say. My point is you have to attend a top school to pursue any career from undergrad as an English major. Like a top 1% school…which is all the examples provided in this thread.

Okay let’s make this easier. Williams or Swarthmore isn’t some household name like Harvard and isn’t gonna get you some Easy top job like Harvard or Yale will. What about it being a top college means we should invalidate the English majors from those colleges when they give you nearly zero advantage in getting a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Underlying all these discussions but rarely stressed…you have to go to one of only like 20-30 schools to see tremendous financial success as an English major.

I doubt even the successful English majors on this thread would encourage their kid to be an English major at Radford or ODU or any o end thousands of different schools.

Hence why so many posts start with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…which is a far different reality for most kids.

Can you explain to me how t3 lacs are different? There are maybe a few ten thousand or so Williams or Swarthmore alum alive? It’s not like they have access to more than anyone else. It’s not like Harvard where half the government has graduated for the college- they’re pretty tiny places with little societal importance.

They aren’t…but several posts on this very thread started with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…that’s all.

Well you said that they’re a “far different reality” what about them? Most of those grads have to go to grad school, cause they don’t go to career-heavy colleges, seems they’re the type of people you should listen to

I don’t understand at all what you are trying to say. My point is you have to attend a top school to pursue any career from undergrad as an English major. Like a top 1% school…which is all the examples provided in this thread.

Okay let’s make this easier. Williams or Swarthmore isn’t some household name like Harvard and isn’t gonna get you some Easy top job like Harvard or Yale will. What about it being a top college means we should invalidate the English majors from those colleges when they give you nearly zero advantage in getting a job.

Your thesis is flawed…plenty of Williams and Swarthmore kids are recruited for Wall Street and McKinsey and other lucrative jobs because of their reputations. Nobody is invalidating an English major from these schools (though not surprising that Econ and other quantitative majors are more popular at those schools).

[Anonymous]

My DC is starting college this fall as an English major. She wants to write. She's knows how the road ahead could look. I stand by her choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Underlying all these discussions but rarely stressed…you have to go to one of only like 20-30 schools to see tremendous financial success as an English major.

I doubt even the successful English majors on this thread would encourage their kid to be an English major at Radford or ODU or any o end thousands of different schools.

Hence why so many posts start with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…which is a far different reality for most kids.

That is true, but that is also true for truly top tech and stem positions, top CEOs, T14 law(which feeds to Big Law, Scotus etc), top med schools and phDs: those same 30 schools for undergrad are overrepresented at the top of all fields. Not necessarily by salary, and certainly not by salary less than 10 years out, but by overall prestige and impact. Top doctors at the cutting edge of research need to be in top hospital systems: these choose preferentially from top med schools, whose rosters have a significant overrepresentation of the same 30 undergrad institutions. Is the boost of undergrad pedigree bigger for English majors? Probably. But it exists all the same for all sectors of "white collar" jobs. Of course one can get to the top at schools outside these 30, but it becomes harder and harder the further down you go.

You are at a statistical advantage if you look at schools where F500 CEOs attended…however 80% didn’t attend those schools.

The main point is that a STEM graduate from ODU can likely get a decent job…but an English major from ODU is likely not going to have a great career outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Underlying all these discussions but rarely stressed…you have to go to one of only like 20-30 schools to see tremendous financial success as an English major.

I doubt even the successful English majors on this thread would encourage their kid to be an English major at Radford or ODU or any o end thousands of different schools.

Hence why so many posts start with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…which is a far different reality for most kids.

Can you explain to me how t3 lacs are different? There are maybe a few ten thousand or so Williams or Swarthmore alum alive? It’s not like they have access to more than anyone else. It’s not like Harvard where half the government has graduated for the college- they’re pretty tiny places with little societal importance.

They aren’t…but several posts on this very thread started with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…that’s all.

Well you said that they’re a “far different reality” what about them? Most of those grads have to go to grad school, cause they don’t go to career-heavy colleges, seems they’re the type of people you should listen to

I don’t understand at all what you are trying to say. My point is you have to attend a top school to pursue any career from undergrad as an English major. Like a top 1% school…which is all the examples provided in this thread.

Okay let’s make this easier. Williams or Swarthmore isn’t some household name like Harvard and isn’t gonna get you some Easy top job like Harvard or Yale will. What about it being a top college means we should invalidate the English majors from those colleges when they give you nearly zero advantage in getting a job.

Your thesis is flawed…plenty of Williams and Swarthmore kids are recruited for Wall Street and McKinsey and other lucrative jobs because of their reputations. Nobody is invalidating an English major from these schools (though not surprising that Econ and other quantitative majors are more popular at those schools).

So we should treat them like any other English major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Underlying all these discussions but rarely stressed…you have to go to one of only like 20-30 schools to see tremendous financial success as an English major.

I doubt even the successful English majors on this thread would encourage their kid to be an English major at Radford or ODU or any o end thousands of different schools.

Hence why so many posts start with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…which is a far different reality for most kids.

That is true, but that is also true for truly top tech and stem positions, top CEOs, T14 law(which feeds to Big Law, Scotus etc), top med schools and phDs: those same 30 schools for undergrad are overrepresented at the top of all fields. Not necessarily by salary, and certainly not by salary less than 10 years out, but by overall prestige and impact. Top doctors at the cutting edge of research need to be in top hospital systems: these choose preferentially from top med schools, whose rosters have a significant overrepresentation of the same 30 undergrad institutions. Is the boost of undergrad pedigree bigger for English majors? Probably. But it exists all the same for all sectors of "white collar" jobs. Of course one can get to the top at schools outside these 30, but it becomes harder and harder the further down you go.

You are at a statistical advantage if you look at schools where F500 CEOs attended…however 80% didn’t attend those schools.

The main point is that a STEM graduate from ODU can likely get a decent job…but an English major from ODU is likely not going to have a great career outcome.

yes, it's all about comparing apples to apples. An English major from Harvard may have better outcomes than a STEM from ODU, but I bet if we compare outcomes between the English major at ODU and the STEM graduate...won't even be in the same stratosphere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Underlying all these discussions but rarely stressed…you have to go to one of only like 20-30 schools to see tremendous financial success as an English major.

I doubt even the successful English majors on this thread would encourage their kid to be an English major at Radford or ODU or any o end thousands of different schools.

Hence why so many posts start with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…which is a far different reality for most kids.

That is true, but that is also true for truly top tech and stem positions, top CEOs, T14 law(which feeds to Big Law, Scotus etc), top med schools and phDs: those same 30 schools for undergrad are overrepresented at the top of all fields. Not necessarily by salary, and certainly not by salary less than 10 years out, but by overall prestige and impact. Top doctors at the cutting edge of research need to be in top hospital systems: these choose preferentially from top med schools, whose rosters have a significant overrepresentation of the same 30 undergrad institutions. Is the boost of undergrad pedigree bigger for English majors? Probably. But it exists all the same for all sectors of "white collar" jobs. Of course one can get to the top at schools outside these 30, but it becomes harder and harder the further down you go.

You are at a statistical advantage if you look at schools where F500 CEOs attended…however 80% didn’t attend those schools.

The main point is that a STEM graduate from ODU can likely get a decent job…but an English major from ODU is likely not going to have a great career outcome.

yes, it's all about comparing apples to apples. An English major from Harvard may have better outcomes than a STEM from ODU, but I bet if we compare outcomes between the English major at ODU and the STEM graduate...won't even be in the same stratosphere.

Why wouldn’t they. The S and M majors typically make trash salaries at lower tier schools. At DC’s very unremarkable state school, on average stem grads only make $5-8k more, barely another “stratosphere.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Underlying all these discussions but rarely stressed…you have to go to one of only like 20-30 schools to see tremendous financial success as an English major.

I doubt even the successful English majors on this thread would encourage their kid to be an English major at Radford or ODU or any o end thousands of different schools.

Hence why so many posts start with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…which is a far different reality for most kids.

Can you explain to me how t3 lacs are different? There are maybe a few ten thousand or so Williams or Swarthmore alum alive? It’s not like they have access to more than anyone else. It’s not like Harvard where half the government has graduated for the college- they’re pretty tiny places with little societal importance.

They aren’t…but several posts on this very thread started with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…that’s all.

Well you said that they’re a “far different reality” what about them? Most of those grads have to go to grad school, cause they don’t go to career-heavy colleges, seems they’re the type of people you should listen to

I don’t understand at all what you are trying to say. My point is you have to attend a top school to pursue any career from undergrad as an English major. Like a top 1% school…which is all the examples provided in this thread.

Okay let’s make this easier. Williams or Swarthmore isn’t some household name like Harvard and isn’t gonna get you some Easy top job like Harvard or Yale will. What about it being a top college means we should invalidate the English majors from those colleges when they give you nearly zero advantage in getting a job.

Your thesis is flawed…plenty of Williams and Swarthmore kids are recruited for Wall Street and McKinsey and other lucrative jobs because of their reputations.

Highly doubtful these are English majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why or why not?

While a noteworthy pursuit, I would be concerned about career prospects unless he/she wanted to go to law school.

The humanities are all actually pre-law, pre-ministry and pre-public policy majors. As long as kids know that, why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m an English major in my early 40s making over $500k annually in a job I love. The early years were hard and the pay was low. But I hit $200k around a decade in, and I never had to pay for graduate school. I want my kids to pursue a degree that engages them. And, frankly, nothing prepared me better for the treachery of the corporate world than reading novels!

Oh and I hire (and promote) English majors… 80% of whom went to non-elite schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Underlying all these discussions but rarely stressed…you have to go to one of only like 20-30 schools to see tremendous financial success as an English major.

I doubt even the successful English majors on this thread would encourage their kid to be an English major at Radford or ODU or any o end thousands of different schools.

Hence why so many posts start with “I went to a top 3 LAC”…which is a far different reality for most kids.

That is true, but that is also true for truly top tech and stem positions, top CEOs, T14 law(which feeds to Big Law, Scotus etc), top med schools and phDs: those same 30 schools for undergrad are overrepresented at the top of all fields. Not necessarily by salary, and certainly not by salary less than 10 years out, but by overall prestige and impact. Top doctors at the cutting edge of research need to be in top hospital systems: these choose preferentially from top med schools, whose rosters have a significant overrepresentation of the same 30 undergrad institutions. Is the boost of undergrad pedigree bigger for English majors? Probably. But it exists all the same for all sectors of "white collar" jobs. Of course one can get to the top at schools outside these 30, but it becomes harder and harder the further down you go.

You are at a statistical advantage if you look at schools where F500 CEOs attended…however 80% didn’t attend those schools.

The main point is that a STEM graduate from ODU can likely get a decent job…but an English major from ODU is likely not going to have a great career outcome.

yes, it's all about comparing apples to apples. An English major from Harvard may have better outcomes than a STEM from ODU, but I bet if we compare outcomes between the English major at ODU and the STEM graduate...won't even be in the same stratosphere.

STEM at ODU crushes English at Harvard. 😂

Institution
Old Dominion University
Major
Computer Engineering.
Earnings at Age 25
$70,975
Earnings at Age 45
$131,110
ROI (Before Completion Adjustment)
$1,241,647
ROI (After Completion Adjustment)
$837,439
ROI (Adjusting for Completion and Underlying Spending)
$788,978

Institution
Harvard University
Major
English Language and Literature, General.
Earnings at Age 25
$42,722
Earnings at Age 45
$91,878
ROI (Before Completion Adjustment)
$532,903
ROI (After Completion Adjustment)
$502,152
ROI (Adjusting for Completion and Underlying Spending)
$25,133

[Anonymous]

The answer is No.