Is the US health system collapsing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Canada, my family member waited for *seven months* for a biopsy of a suspected lymphoma. (Turned out to be a benign tumor so the person is still alive by sheer luck. Also, the biopsy was botched so another surgery is now needed.)

A different, elderly family member had surgery on the wrong kidney. Of course no one took responsibility.

We pay through the nose but at least DH got to an MRI machine within 48 hours of being sent there.

Which province?

Ontario

Weird. I have relatives in Ontario and this is not their experience. Ditto my relatives in a socialized medicine country in Europe. I think the "delays" and other criticisms are often overstated. Not that they don't exist but certainly that is not what I hear/see from relatives.

My Candian relatives all came here for Covid shots and then had a strict and monitored 2 week quarentine to return to Canada.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it really good anywhere?

Last week there were big complaints in the UK about the NHS computer system that led to unfavorable health outcomes and deaths.

My friend couldn't find a PCP in Toronto for months.

Other countries are losing doctors to higher paying countries and don't produce enough specialists. People wait years for joint surgery, or months for oncology appointments.

How much of this is because medical science can do more so demand is higher for an increased number of treatments.

I don’t buy about medical science doing more because life expectancy is not impressive in the USA.
If I have to guess Scandinavian countries might be doing better.

Of course they’re doing more. In 1986, there were 9,000 kidney transplants in the US. In 2022, there were over 22,000.

That's a 6% increase year over year, which is not that impressive. There are currently over 100,000 people waiting for a kidney transplant in the US.

The relevance is that the population has increased 39% in that period whereas the number of surgeries has increased 144%. That’s just for kidney transplants. There are now 1.3 million knee and hip replacements per year in the US.

The ageing of the population plus demand for procedures which once did not exist means that the healthcare systems of many countries are under strain. In reality, there is already rationing of these services. In the US, I guess it’s those with the most money or best insurance who are at the front of the line. In countries with socialised medicine, it’s those on the waitlist the longest although there are tend to be funding inequities across different regions and naturally there are queue jumpers who can afford the private route.

I can only speak of France since that is the country that I am most familiar with. They have a score system to match kidney donors and recipients which takes into account biological factors in matching, age pairing and road distance between sampling and transplant. By contrast, the US has an antiquated and inefficient method of matching donors and recipients.

[Anonymous]

CollapsING? No. The US health system collapsED about two decades ago. You're just catching on now because nobody in your immediate circle has had a major medical issue or chronic health condition.

Those of us who've been disabled for any length of time already know what you're just now learning: this place never had health in mind, just profits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it really good anywhere?

Last week there were big complaints in the UK about the NHS computer system that led to unfavorable health outcomes and deaths.

My friend couldn't find a PCP in Toronto for months.

Other countries are losing doctors to higher paying countries and don't produce enough specialists. People wait years for joint surgery, or months for oncology appointments.

How much of this is because medical science can do more so demand is higher for an increased number of treatments.

You know where it is good? Thailand - extremely high quality health care, easy to get, not that expensive. Jordan, Spain, Turkey, South Africa - all really good and affordable.

I don't know about Spain, but I do know you've never been to Jordan or Turkey.

[Anonymous]

Lots of people go overseas for cheaper care, and that includes Americans.

https://www.magazine.medicaltourism.com/article/top-10-medical-tourism-destinations-world

Canada and the UK are on the list of countries people go to for medical care. Non residents would pay out of pocket, of course, so they don't use the national care service.

US is not on the list. Most people in the world cannot afford American medical prices.

https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/top-5-medical-tourism-destinations-in-the-world-1176780/5/

This one lists in order from the first link (Medical tourism link)
1. Canada
2. Singapore
3. Japan
4. Spain
5. UK

Example of hip replacement surgery in different countries (hint: US is the most expensive; UK is less than half the cost of the US, and India is the cheapest):

https://www.medicaltourismco.com/hip-replacement-surgery-abroad/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people go overseas for cheaper care, and that includes Americans.

https://www.magazine.medicaltourism.com/article/top-10-medical-tourism-destinations-world

Canada and the UK are on the list of countries people go to for medical care. Non residents would pay out of pocket, of course, so they don't use the national care service.

US is not on the list. Most people in the world cannot afford American medical prices.

https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/top-5-medical-tourism-destinations-in-the-world-1176780/5/

This one lists in order from the first link (Medical tourism link)
1. Canada
2. Singapore
3. Japan
4. Spain
5. UK

Example of hip replacement surgery in different countries (hint: US is the most expensive; UK is less than half the cost of the US, and India is the cheapest):

https://www.medicaltourismco.com/hip-replacement-surgery-abroad/

This is a crazy list for medical tourism.
Probably those countries are as expensive as the USA.
Thailand, Turkey and Mexico should be on the top of this list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people go overseas for cheaper care, and that includes Americans.

https://www.magazine.medicaltourism.com/article/top-10-medical-tourism-destinations-world

Canada and the UK are on the list of countries people go to for medical care. Non residents would pay out of pocket, of course, so they don't use the national care service.

US is not on the list. Most people in the world cannot afford American medical prices.

https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/top-5-medical-tourism-destinations-in-the-world-1176780/5/

This one lists in order from the first link (Medical tourism link)
1. Canada
2. Singapore
3. Japan
4. Spain
5. UK

Example of hip replacement surgery in different countries (hint: US is the most expensive; UK is less than half the cost of the US, and India is the cheapest):

https://www.medicaltourismco.com/hip-replacement-surgery-abroad/

This is a crazy list for medical tourism.
Probably those countries are as expensive as the USA.
Thailand, Turkey and Mexico should be on the top of this list.

It's not. Look at the cost of the hip replacement surgery I posted. Did you read that part?

Medical costs in the US far exceeds any other country:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people go overseas for cheaper care, and that includes Americans.

https://www.magazine.medicaltourism.com/article/top-10-medical-tourism-destinations-world

Canada and the UK are on the list of countries people go to for medical care. Non residents would pay out of pocket, of course, so they don't use the national care service.

US is not on the list. Most people in the world cannot afford American medical prices.

https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/top-5-medical-tourism-destinations-in-the-world-1176780/5/

This one lists in order from the first link (Medical tourism link)
1. Canada
2. Singapore
3. Japan
4. Spain
5. UK

Example of hip replacement surgery in different countries (hint: US is the most expensive; UK is less than half the cost of the US, and India is the cheapest):

https://www.medicaltourismco.com/hip-replacement-surgery-abroad/

This is a crazy list for medical tourism.
Probably those countries are as expensive as the USA.
Thailand, Turkey and Mexico should be on the top of this list.

Of course healthcare is cheap in those countries compared to the US. Those three countries all have less than $11,000 per capita ($7,000 in the case of Thailand). How about you ask the average person in those countries how accessible and costly healthcare is for them, rather than medical tourists arriving with US dollars?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people go overseas for cheaper care, and that includes Americans.

https://www.magazine.medicaltourism.com/article/top-10-medical-tourism-destinations-world

Canada and the UK are on the list of countries people go to for medical care. Non residents would pay out of pocket, of course, so they don't use the national care service.

US is not on the list. Most people in the world cannot afford American medical prices.

https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/top-5-medical-tourism-destinations-in-the-world-1176780/5/

This one lists in order from the first link (Medical tourism link)
1. Canada
2. Singapore
3. Japan
4. Spain
5. UK

Example of hip replacement surgery in different countries (hint: US is the most expensive; UK is less than half the cost of the US, and India is the cheapest):

https://www.medicaltourismco.com/hip-replacement-surgery-abroad/

How do you get follow up care if you have a hip replacement or other procedure abroad? I'm part of the "if anything can go wrong it will go wrong" category of patients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people go overseas for cheaper care, and that includes Americans.

https://www.magazine.medicaltourism.com/article/top-10-medical-tourism-destinations-world

Canada and the UK are on the list of countries people go to for medical care. Non residents would pay out of pocket, of course, so they don't use the national care service.

US is not on the list. Most people in the world cannot afford American medical prices.

https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/top-5-medical-tourism-destinations-in-the-world-1176780/5/

This one lists in order from the first link (Medical tourism link)
1. Canada
2. Singapore
3. Japan
4. Spain
5. UK

Example of hip replacement surgery in different countries (hint: US is the most expensive; UK is less than half the cost of the US, and India is the cheapest):

https://www.medicaltourismco.com/hip-replacement-surgery-abroad/

This is a crazy list for medical tourism.
Probably those countries are as expensive as the USA.
Thailand, Turkey and Mexico should be on the top of this list.

It's not. Look at the cost of the hip replacement surgery I posted. Did you read that part?

Medical costs in the US far exceeds any other country:

That chart doesn’t reflect the type of care. Maybe in India they don’t go to the doctor regularly. Maybe they have a younger population that doesn’t need as much care. (Not saying those are facts, just that the chart doesn’t show anything without context).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people go overseas for cheaper care, and that includes Americans.

https://www.magazine.medicaltourism.com/article/top-10-medical-tourism-destinations-world

Canada and the UK are on the list of countries people go to for medical care. Non residents would pay out of pocket, of course, so they don't use the national care service.

US is not on the list. Most people in the world cannot afford American medical prices.

https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/top-5-medical-tourism-destinations-in-the-world-1176780/5/

This one lists in order from the first link (Medical tourism link)
1. Canada
2. Singapore
3. Japan
4. Spain
5. UK

Example of hip replacement surgery in different countries (hint: US is the most expensive; UK is less than half the cost of the US, and India is the cheapest):

https://www.medicaltourismco.com/hip-replacement-surgery-abroad/

This is a crazy list for medical tourism.
Probably those countries are as expensive as the USA.
Thailand, Turkey and Mexico should be on the top of this list.

Of course healthcare is cheap in those countries compared to the US. Those three countries all have less than $11,000 per capita ($7,000 in the case of Thailand). How about you ask the average person in those countries how accessible and costly healthcare is for them, rather than medical tourists arriving with US dollars?

A lot of this countries have access to government healthcare and private healthcare including Mexico, Colombia, Ecuador, Thailand, Philippines and Turkey.
Not including Western Europe.

[Anonymous]

We live in a country where health care is a for profit business. Was there anything else that needed to be said about the issues we have in this field then?

I'm pretty sure the for profit part would ruin any system! The fact is we have also disorganization, a ton of unhealthy people and no actual system so yeah, the problems we have are beyond gigantic. There's no way out of the mess if it stays for profit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people go overseas for cheaper care, and that includes Americans.

https://www.magazine.medicaltourism.com/article/top-10-medical-tourism-destinations-world

Canada and the UK are on the list of countries people go to for medical care. Non residents would pay out of pocket, of course, so they don't use the national care service.

US is not on the list. Most people in the world cannot afford American medical prices.

https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/top-5-medical-tourism-destinations-in-the-world-1176780/5/

This one lists in order from the first link (Medical tourism link)
1. Canada
2. Singapore
3. Japan
4. Spain
5. UK

Example of hip replacement surgery in different countries (hint: US is the most expensive; UK is less than half the cost of the US, and India is the cheapest):

https://www.medicaltourismco.com/hip-replacement-surgery-abroad/

This is a crazy list for medical tourism.
Probably those countries are as expensive as the USA.
Thailand, Turkey and Mexico should be on the top of this list.

It's not. Look at the cost of the hip replacement surgery I posted. Did you read that part?

Medical costs in the US far exceeds any other country:

That chart doesn’t reflect the type of care. Maybe in India they don’t go to the doctor regularly. Maybe they have a younger population that doesn’t need as much care. (Not saying those are facts, just that the chart doesn’t show anything without context).

Why does it need to reflect the type of care? Medical care costs in the US far exceeds that of any country. Lots of Americans go to other countries for medical care, typically Mexico, Central/South America or Canada.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the medical professionals and admins who have responded to this thread -

We can someone do - today - in the DMV to access better care?

Take a deuce on the lawns of some of your neighbors in Chevy Chase, Potomac, and Alexandria who all work for the whole insurance lobby, pharmaceutical lobby, AMA, and hospital lobby. The people right next to you in this area are the bottom of the barrel trash swamp rats ruining this country, destroying loves, and yes, are even killing lots of people by denying access to affordable medical care in this country. They're literally right next to you. Lobbyists should all be made public so we can see who is ruining the country.

Lobbyists are registered, along with their clients???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people go overseas for cheaper care, and that includes Americans.

https://www.magazine.medicaltourism.com/article/top-10-medical-tourism-destinations-world

Canada and the UK are on the list of countries people go to for medical care. Non residents would pay out of pocket, of course, so they don't use the national care service.

US is not on the list. Most people in the world cannot afford American medical prices.

https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/top-5-medical-tourism-destinations-in-the-world-1176780/5/

This one lists in order from the first link (Medical tourism link)
1. Canada
2. Singapore
3. Japan
4. Spain
5. UK

Example of hip replacement surgery in different countries (hint: US is the most expensive; UK is less than half the cost of the US, and India is the cheapest):

https://www.medicaltourismco.com/hip-replacement-surgery-abroad/

How do you get follow up care if you have a hip replacement or other procedure abroad? I'm part of the "if anything can go wrong it will go wrong" category of patients.

Typically, medical tourists recover and stay in that country a bit longer until they are fully recovered.

Harder to do in the more expensive countries like Canada and UK.

I think if you go to cheaper countries, there are medical care packages you can buy. It covers the cost of the medical treatment, stay at a place where you can recover and you get care.

*If* something happens months later, I guess you have to go back or try to find a US doctor who will deal with it (most probably won't due to malpractice).

But, when you don't have the money for medical care, you are going to take that small risk of something happening to get that care that you can afford.