WashPost: one US college closing per week

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Swarthmore and Amherst are the next to go, many financial problems recently. All these "LACs" will thankfully die out and students will actually need to work hard for an engineering or STEM degree.

Your trolling is tiresome. Both colleges are in the top 10 schools in the US for most endowment per student.

https://www.insidehighered.com/opinion/blogs/learning-innovation/2023/09/08/endowments-full-time-equivalent-student

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Swarthmore and Amherst are the next to go, many financial problems recently. All these "LACs" will thankfully die out and students will actually need to work hard for an engineering or STEM degree.

Love how they will be the “next to go”…that skips over hundreds of other schools with like zero endowment.

BTW…you can get STEM degrees at both of these schools…STEM majors are some of the most popular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems like the bubble is bursting finally in higher ed. Hopefully it will mean lower tuition at more solvent schools in the near future.

Yes, this is the only reasonable outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bridgewater is known for its program for autistic students

What are you talking about? All colleges have disability services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bridgewater is known for its program for autistic students

What are you talking about? All colleges have disability services.

some do it much better than others

Here is the program I was referring to: https://www.bridgewater.edu/life-at-bridgewater/services-for-students/academic-advising-and-support/base-program/

The school my daughter will attend is another one with specific programs for neurodiverse students. She has severe ADHD/EF issues, which has always made school difficult for her. She was automatically placed in a program where she will be in a cohort her first year and have her weekly seminar class with them PLUS a one on one session weekly with a coach, in addition to other group meetings and sessions.

One of the schools that we looked at had good EF supports, but treats kids with autism like they need to be "fixed" (I just learned about this last night and was sad to hear it)

Not all services are equal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would anyone know of small colleges in VA that might be showing signs of being in danger of closing down?

Lynchburg had recent layoffs

Sweet Briar just barely survived a few years ago

I would hate to see these schools close. My daughter was accepted to Randolph and really liked it there. She chose a different LAC with just over 1k students, only because the other school had both programs she wanted as possible majors. But Randolph is a very special little school for a great price.

Lynchburg did have layoffs. And their PR wasn't great. But it was a handful of departments where those depts. closed due to the cost of running them when there are only a handful of kids enrolled in those majors (like theater). Friends with kids there said some classes had 1-2 kids in them and they had to fund those, plus the running of the department. While sad for those people who had the majors cut (they still offer arts, for example, just not all as a "major") you cannot fund programs for 4 kids. So their decision making was sound there. They are more known for their health related paths and some other programs (they have a well regarded PA school and a PT school, as well as nursing).

Lburg is also a big sports school and is expanding those offerings (mens vball, mens wrestling). So the school isn't going anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why most people only want to go to a T20 school.

Most of the big state schools are below T20, and they are fine.

I would be worried about the SLACs.

Sure, they're "fine" if you want your daughter raped by some illiterate "student"-athlete and then covered up by coaches and administrators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://wapo.st/4b31Cky

Now, more than ever, families and students pursuing higher education opportunities must do their research into the financial viability of colleges as well as the long-term cost of tuition, student loans, and other expenses. In many cases, this is almost as big a financial investment as buying a home.

Our upper middle class neighbor's daughter is going to play soccer at some D3 college in the fall and they swear they're only paying $10,000 total all-in per year. Tells me these small colleges are extremely hard-up for students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would anyone know of small colleges in VA that might be showing signs of being in danger of closing down?

Lynchburg had recent layoffs

Sweet Briar just barely survived a few years ago

I would hate to see these schools close. My daughter was accepted to Randolph and really liked it there. She chose a different LAC with just over 1k students, only because the other school had both programs she wanted as possible majors. But Randolph is a very special little school for a great price.

Lynchburg did have layoffs. And their PR wasn't great. But it was a handful of departments where those depts. closed due to the cost of running them when there are only a handful of kids enrolled in those majors (like theater). Friends with kids there said some classes had 1-2 kids in them and they had to fund those, plus the running of the department. While sad for those people who had the majors cut (they still offer arts, for example, just not all as a "major") you cannot fund programs for 4 kids. So their decision making was sound there. They are more known for their health related paths and some other programs (they have a well regarded PA school and a PT school, as well as nursing).

Lburg is also a big sports school and is expanding those offerings (mens vball, mens wrestling). So the school isn't going anywhere.

Lburg is a D3 sports school...I would be very concerned that they are expanding sports offerings that are guaranteed $$$ losers.

Even Alabama loses money overall on their sports (not terrible...but it's negative). Football makes all their money, and literally every other sport loses money. Most of the football money is made from SEC television rights.

Lburg has a very good D3 baseball team (won the D3 college world series)...at best, the baseball team breaks even (but probably doesn't).

Expanding D3 sports I guess gets more tuition revenue (?)...although, I don't know if the student population is expanding overall, vs. it is attracting more men to the campus. Many of these small D3 schools are now like 65%+ female.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://wapo.st/4b31Cky

Now, more than ever, families and students pursuing higher education opportunities must do their research into the financial viability of colleges as well as the long-term cost of tuition, student loans, and other expenses. In many cases, this is almost as big a financial investment as buying a home.

Our upper middle class neighbor's daughter is going to play soccer at some D3 college in the fall and they swear they're only paying $10,000 total all-in per year. Tells me these small colleges are extremely hard-up for students.

There are many schools that award merit aid to literally nearly everyone accepted. https://www.road2college.com/colleges-offering-largest-percent-students-merit-based-scholarships/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The colleges that will be in trouble:

For-profit colleges everywhere. Their scams have been exposed and their students often can't get aid. Good riddance.

Very small privates with small endowments that, as others have said, started out as: obscure women's colleges, junior colleges, or religiously affiliated with smaller and shrinking denominations that can no longer financially support them.

Larger privates with small endowments that grew recently, and especially those that are in shrinking parts of the US. High Point and Libertv are easy ones to see shrinking. I don't want to pick a fight with Northeastern boosters, but it's hard to see big enrollments continuing there when BU NEU, and maybe BC are all fishing in the same shrinking pool.

Non-flagship state colleges in dying parts of the country will shrink. They have almost no endowments and state legislatures will eventually push for shrinking and consolidating. This process is already underway in PA, with a few of its former teachers colleges (which all greatly expanded over the past 30 or 40 years) being slated to consolidate.

State flagships in declining states will shrink enrollment. They won't disappear, but enrollments will shrink at places like WVU, UMass, UNH, and Minnesota.

Agree with part but not the rest. High Point is growing not shrinking. You will see a larger and larger enrollment there. They are taking from the pool that you correctly say is in trouble. No idea on Liberty.

On Boston -- BC does not fish in the same water as BU never mind NEU. BC overlap are Ivy's, UVA, ND, and the like. If anything NEU is the safety for BC. I don't see NEU in trouble. They have a model and will take from the places below them.

I also do not see those state school you listed in any trouble or cutting back at all. They will all take from the failing pool of places that you listed. UMAss in particular. They will fill seats at the flagship from the non-flagships. Those will take seats from the failing ones.

I have to think that a place like High Point will be in trouble. It's grown like crazy by offering high end amenities to attract full-pay kids who can't get into places like Tulane or Wake Forest. When we go over the demographic cliff, Tulane and Wake Forest will say yes to those less than stellar, but full-pay, students. And if they need a little merit to be more attractive, they've got endowments to get them through the challenge. High Point is already accepting almost 80%. But even if they take everyone, they'll be left with a more needy group of students, and it will be hard to keep up the amenities. And once the amenities and the general sense of affluence are gone, then the magic is gone. And High Point will be in trouble.

High point was never known for academics. Wake and Tulane are known for decent academics. A lot of small liberal arts colleges in New York and PA will also be in trouble. Schools like Urisnus or Union are on shaky ground as is. With more kids choosing state schools, these schools will not have as many customers. A kid 20 years ago from the Northeast who would have gone to Union or WPI for engineering can get merit at Aubuurn or Purdue.

Why don't you do a little research instead of making up crap and typing it up?

Forbes give financial rankings of A+ to Union, A- to WPI, and B+ to Ursinus. Seems like they can all weather the storm.
But the one you defend, High Point, gets a C.

High Point seems like a house of cards that will eventually collapse.

\

With an endowment of 173+ million? Hardly.

Honestly, that's not very much.

+1 That's a low endowment! High Point has around 5k undergrads. Oberlin has about half as many undergraduates and an endowment of 1.2b--nearly 7x as much! And even if you go to the smaller LACs with smaller endowments in the midwest--
Wooster has 2000 students and an endowment of 370+m, Kenyon has 1900 students and a 500m+ endowment--even a very small school like Kalamazoo College with 1200 or so students has an endowment of 290+m, and none of these (except perhaps Oberlin's) are considered exceptionally large endowments--they are just "solid" ones for the school size. Each of those schools--even if they experience some enrollment declines/operational belt-tightening are in good financial shape because they have steadily grown their endowment over time. They all get in the A- to A+ range from Forbes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The colleges that will be in trouble:

For-profit colleges everywhere. Their scams have been exposed and their students often can't get aid. Good riddance.

Very small privates with small endowments that, as others have said, started out as: obscure women's colleges, junior colleges, or religiously affiliated with smaller and shrinking denominations that can no longer financially support them.

Larger privates with small endowments that grew recently, and especially those that are in shrinking parts of the US. High Point and Libertv are easy ones to see shrinking. I don't want to pick a fight with Northeastern boosters, but it's hard to see big enrollments continuing there when BU NEU, and maybe BC are all fishing in the same shrinking pool.

Non-flagship state colleges in dying parts of the country will shrink. They have almost no endowments and state legislatures will eventually push for shrinking and consolidating. This process is already underway in PA, with a few of its former teachers colleges (which all greatly expanded over the past 30 or 40 years) being slated to consolidate.

State flagships in declining states will shrink enrollment. They won't disappear, but enrollments will shrink at places like WVU, UMass, UNH, and Minnesota.

Agree with part but not the rest. High Point is growing not shrinking. You will see a larger and larger enrollment there. They are taking from the pool that you correctly say is in trouble. No idea on Liberty.

On Boston -- BC does not fish in the same water as BU never mind NEU. BC overlap are Ivy's, UVA, ND, and the like. If anything NEU is the safety for BC. I don't see NEU in trouble. They have a model and will take from the places below them.

I also do not see those state school you listed in any trouble or cutting back at all. They will all take from the failing pool of places that you listed. UMAss in particular. They will fill seats at the flagship from the non-flagships. Those will take seats from the failing ones.

I have to think that a place like High Point will be in trouble. It's grown like crazy by offering high end amenities to attract full-pay kids who can't get into places like Tulane or Wake Forest. When we go over the demographic cliff, Tulane and Wake Forest will say yes to those less than stellar, but full-pay, students. And if they need a little merit to be more attractive, they've got endowments to get them through the challenge. High Point is already accepting almost 80%. But even if they take everyone, they'll be left with a more needy group of students, and it will be hard to keep up the amenities. And once the amenities and the general sense of affluence are gone, then the magic is gone. And High Point will be in trouble.

High point was never known for academics. Wake and Tulane are known for decent academics. A lot of small liberal arts colleges in New York and PA will also be in trouble. Schools like Urisnus or Union are on shaky ground as is. With more kids choosing state schools, these schools will not have as many customers. A kid 20 years ago from the Northeast who would have gone to Union or WPI for engineering can get merit at Aubuurn or Purdue.

Why don't you do a little research instead of making up crap and typing it up?

Forbes give financial rankings of A+ to Union, A- to WPI, and B+ to Ursinus. Seems like they can all weather the storm.
But the one you defend, High Point, gets a C.

High Point seems like a house of cards that will eventually collapse.

\

With an endowment of 173+ million? Hardly.

Honestly, that's not very much.

+1 That's a low endowment! High Point has around 5k undergrads. Oberlin has about half as many undergraduates and an endowment of 1.2b--nearly 7x as much! And even if you go to the smaller LACs with smaller endowments in the midwest--
Wooster has 2000 students and an endowment of 370+m, Kenyon has 1900 students and a 500m+ endowment--even a very small school like Kalamazoo College with 1200 or so students has an endowment of 290+m, and none of these (except perhaps Oberlin's) are considered exceptionally large endowments--they are just "solid" ones for the school size. Each of those schools--even if they experience some enrollment declines/operational belt-tightening are in good financial shape because they have steadily grown their endowment over time. They all get in the A- to A+ range from Forbes.

This is why I believe the medium-sized universities with LAC endowments are next to crater. There's no way they have the capacity to provide a quality education and dorm/dining with how little money they have in the bank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swarthmore and Amherst are the next to go, many financial problems recently. All these "LACs" will thankfully die out and students will actually need to work hard for an engineering or STEM degree.

Your trolling is tiresome. Both colleges are in the top 10 schools in the US for most endowment per student.

https://www.insidehighered.com/opinion/blogs/learning-innovation/2023/09/08/endowments-full-time-equivalent-student

Swarthmore and Amherst are brands and will not be going anywhere. This is a marketing problem. Brands will sell even if the number of customers drop. The schools that will die are the ones you have never heard of before.

You do realize that most engineering and STEM degrees set you up for the upper end of middle class or the lower end of UMC without the possibility of further growth. If you love the middle go by all means. I guess it is a life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would anyone know of small colleges in VA that might be showing signs of being in danger of closing down?

Lynchburg had recent layoffs

Sweet Briar just barely survived a few years ago

I would hate to see these schools close. My daughter was accepted to Randolph and really liked it there. She chose a different LAC with just over 1k students, only because the other school had both programs she wanted as possible majors. But Randolph is a very special little school for a great price.

Lynchburg did have layoffs. And their PR wasn't great. But it was a handful of departments where those depts. closed due to the cost of running them when there are only a handful of kids enrolled in those majors (like theater). Friends with kids there said some classes had 1-2 kids in them and they had to fund those, plus the running of the department. While sad for those people who had the majors cut (they still offer arts, for example, just not all as a "major") you cannot fund programs for 4 kids. So their decision making was sound there. They are more known for their health related paths and some other programs (they have a well regarded PA school and a PT school, as well as nursing).

Lburg is also a big sports school and is expanding those offerings (mens vball, mens wrestling). So the school isn't going anywhere.

Lburg is a D3 sports school...I would be very concerned that they are expanding sports offerings that are guaranteed $$$ losers.

Even Alabama loses money overall on their sports (not terrible...but it's negative). Football makes all their money, and literally every other sport loses money. Most of the football money is made from SEC television rights.

Lburg has a very good D3 baseball team (won the D3 college world series)...at best, the baseball team breaks even (but probably doesn't).

Expanding D3 sports I guess gets more tuition revenue (?)...although, I don't know if the student population is expanding overall, vs. it is attracting more men to the campus. Many of these small D3 schools are now like 65%+ female.

Like it or not, sports is a draw. I know many rising seniors who are gearing for Tech and JMU b/c they want a "sports school." And those are just the students, not the athletes. And the fact that you feel the need to denigrate "D3" schools tells me you know very little about this topic overall. Those kids work hard and some D3 schools perform at a very high level, scrimmaging and beating lower level D2 and D1 schools.

Lburg has a very good baseball team, yes. But their FH team went several rounds into the NCAA tournament. Their track and XC teams are also very good. As well, so is their mens LAX. When we have visited, all of the sports events were well attended and supported. And lots of kids on each of these teams were athletic and academic all americans.

It remains to be seen if this will increase enrollment overall or not. But you don't know that any more than I do. And Lburg's M to FM ratio closer to 50/50.

You don't have to like the school but I know several kids having VERY good experiences there and who will grad debt free (I have a rising senior in HS and no one at the school).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The colleges that will be in trouble:

For-profit colleges everywhere. Their scams have been exposed and their students often can't get aid. Good riddance.

Very small privates with small endowments that, as others have said, started out as: obscure women's colleges, junior colleges, or religiously affiliated with smaller and shrinking denominations that can no longer financially support them.

Larger privates with small endowments that grew recently, and especially those that are in shrinking parts of the US. High Point and Libertv are easy ones to see shrinking. I don't want to pick a fight with Northeastern boosters, but it's hard to see big enrollments continuing there when BU NEU, and maybe BC are all fishing in the same shrinking pool.

Non-flagship state colleges in dying parts of the country will shrink. They have almost no endowments and state legislatures will eventually push for shrinking and consolidating. This process is already underway in PA, with a few of its former teachers colleges (which all greatly expanded over the past 30 or 40 years) being slated to consolidate.

State flagships in declining states will shrink enrollment. They won't disappear, but enrollments will shrink at places like WVU, UMass, UNH, and Minnesota.

Agree with part but not the rest. High Point is growing not shrinking. You will see a larger and larger enrollment there. They are taking from the pool that you correctly say is in trouble. No idea on Liberty.

On Boston -- BC does not fish in the same water as BU never mind NEU. BC overlap are Ivy's, UVA, ND, and the like. If anything NEU is the safety for BC. I don't see NEU in trouble. They have a model and will take from the places below them.

I also do not see those state school you listed in any trouble or cutting back at all. They will all take from the failing pool of places that you listed. UMAss in particular. They will fill seats at the flagship from the non-flagships. Those will take seats from the failing ones.

I have to think that a place like High Point will be in trouble. It's grown like crazy by offering high end amenities to attract full-pay kids who can't get into places like Tulane or Wake Forest. When we go over the demographic cliff, Tulane and Wake Forest will say yes to those less than stellar, but full-pay, students. And if they need a little merit to be more attractive, they've got endowments to get them through the challenge. High Point is already accepting almost 80%. But even if they take everyone, they'll be left with a more needy group of students, and it will be hard to keep up the amenities. And once the amenities and the general sense of affluence are gone, then the magic is gone. And High Point will be in trouble.

High point was never known for academics. Wake and Tulane are known for decent academics. A lot of small liberal arts colleges in New York and PA will also be in trouble. Schools like Urisnus or Union are on shaky ground as is. With more kids choosing state schools, these schools will not have as many customers. A kid 20 years ago from the Northeast who would have gone to Union or WPI for engineering can get merit at Aubuurn or Purdue.

Why don't you do a little research instead of making up crap and typing it up?

Forbes give financial rankings of A+ to Union, A- to WPI, and B+ to Ursinus. Seems like they can all weather the storm.
But the one you defend, High Point, gets a C.

High Point seems like a house of cards that will eventually collapse.

\

With an endowment of 173+ million? Hardly.

Honestly, that's not very much.

+1 That's a low endowment! High Point has around 5k undergrads. Oberlin has about half as many undergraduates and an endowment of 1.2b--nearly 7x as much! And even if you go to the smaller LACs with smaller endowments in the midwest--
Wooster has 2000 students and an endowment of 370+m, Kenyon has 1900 students and a 500m+ endowment--even a very small school like Kalamazoo College with 1200 or so students has an endowment of 290+m, and none of these (except perhaps Oberlin's) are considered exceptionally large endowments--they are just "solid" ones for the school size. Each of those schools--even if they experience some enrollment declines/operational belt-tightening are in good financial shape because they have steadily grown their endowment over time. They all get in the A- to A+ range from Forbes.

This is why I believe the medium-sized universities with LAC endowments are next to crater. There's no way they have the capacity to provide a quality education and dorm/dining with how little money they have in the bank.

High Point is just fine. One of the things they do not do is discount very much. They get their full tuition pretty often. They are in full growth mode and taking students from other places. They also have no debt and have received about 500 million in donations in last several years, mostly to build their expanded campus.