Guest lecturer perspective: modern students are absolutely atrocious

[Anonymous]

It so bad. It truly is. My spouse and I were trying to figure out which generation is raising these students. Late Millennials? Because they talk over teachers, have little respect, zero attention span and I think 3/4 of them are hyped up on ritalin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Every generation writes this about the subsequence going back to ancient Greece. There's never any truth to it.

Yes there is. When they worried in ancient Greece that writing would lead to people no longer memorizing the entire Illiad, they weren't wrong about that. I doubt there's been a human being alive in centuries, maybe even millenia, who has memorized the Illiad, but the Greeks used to do it. What the ancient Greeks could not have forseen was the positive benefits of writing for other things would (I think) outweigh the loss of that much memorization.

Will social media culture have benefits that are equivalent to writing? It...sure doesn't seem like it.

People definitely still memorize the Iliad

Find me someone who has memorized the entire thing - I'd love to know.

NP. There was a guy in the 90s, Stephen Powelson, who I think eventually had it all entirely memorized and would do it as a performance. Having large chunks memorized is not uncommon, I knew a couple professors in college who could do a book or so. There's a guy who much of the Christian Bible memorized, Tom Meyer, and memorization of the Quran is relatively common (the Quran is shorter, but they're in the same ballpark). Memorization of that amount of material is possible, you just have to value it enough to take the time and

The thing about ancient oral tradition that gave us the Iliad, though, is that it probably wasn't exactly memorized (this a theory, but it's generally accepted by scholars). It was orally composed , effectively improvised, using the outlines of the story and formulaic phrases that made that possible. I don't think that survived really anywhere after literacy was common. The pioneers in this theory, Milman Parry and Albert Lord worked in Yugoslavia which had an active tradition of this kind of oral storytelling into the 20th century, but among people who I believe were largely illiterate.

[Anonymous]

make your lecture in 5 minutes increments or send out notes so we can use chatgpt to summarize, no one has time for your shit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gave a guest lecture today. It really hasn't changed much over the years except with updated information. I had a hiatus a bit from doing the lecture, so this was the first time I restarted it since COVID, but holy Toledo modern students are horrible. They have attention spans of ants. And it is absolutely noticeable beyond belief when I think about teaching students and giving a lecture back in 2010 vs 2024. I guess this is the end result of raising entire generations on toxic social media like TikTok since they were out of the womb. We are absolutely doomed. Modern generations' brains have been fried by spastic social media clips that last only 3-4 seconds. Heaven forbid they have to sit through a 75 minute lecture on extremely complex topics that have been distilled down to them in a digestible manner.

Just horrible. Thank God I do not teach for a profession. I'd lose my mind dealing with modern students who are incapable of having focused thought for more than 5 minutes. One student even came into the class wearing headphones and wore them the whole time while I was giving lecture. WTH? If you don't want to listen, simply don't come then. This country is going to be an unmitigated disaster in 30 years when these people take over. I honestly don't know if gen alpha is going to be able to digest baby food for course material at the rate mental capacity and attention spans are rapidly degrading. It is scary how fast the quality of students has declined in only a fraction of my lifetime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gave a guest lecture today. It really hasn't changed much over the years except with updated information. I had a hiatus a bit from doing the lecture, so this was the first time I restarted it since COVID, but holy Toledo modern students are horrible. They have attention spans of ants. And it is absolutely noticeable beyond belief when I think about teaching students and giving a lecture back in 2010 vs 2024. I guess this is the end result of raising entire generations on toxic social media like TikTok since they were out of the womb. We are absolutely doomed. Modern generations' brains have been fried by spastic social media clips that last only 3-4 seconds. Heaven forbid they have to sit through a 75 minute lecture on extremely complex topics that have been distilled down to them in a digestible manner.

Just horrible. Thank God I do not teach for a profession. I'd lose my mind dealing with modern students who are incapable of having focused thought for more than 5 minutes. One student even came into the class wearing headphones and wore them the whole time while I was giving lecture. WTH? If you don't want to listen, simply don't come then. This country is going to be an unmitigated disaster in 30 years when these people take over. I honestly don't know if gen alpha is going to be able to digest baby food for course material at the rate mental capacity and attention spans are rapidly degrading. It is scary how fast the quality of students has declined in only a fraction of my lifetime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It so bad. It truly is. My spouse and I were trying to figure out which generation is raising these students. Late Millennials? Because they talk over teachers, have little respect, zero attention span and I think 3/4 of them are hyped up on ritalin.

Well OP said they’re college student, so parents are likely in their 50s. GenX!

I’m Gen X and our ethos is “whatever” - so it makes sense unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

OP, your rant about the "cause" is a decade too early. Current college students were not "raised on tik tok" or computers. They were watching Little Einsteins on DVD and that was considered "screen time." They didn't have ipads and most of their parents were just getting the first very expensive smart phones themselves. These kids didn't get them until about 8th grade unless they were super wealthy.

So they may not have been interested in your lecture, but the reason isn't that they had tik tok when they were 8 because they didn't.

Also, some kids with ASD wear semi noise canceling headphones as an accommodation to help them hear your lecture better and drown out the gum chewing, pencil tapping, loud breathing sounds that distract them to degrees not common among others. So unless you could hear the kids' music or something, you should assume it is an accommodation that is helping not hindering. My DS is never without headphones and no one realizes that he needs them (he wants it that way).

[Anonymous]

If the lecture is the same as it was a decade ago, I assure you that you are in fact boring the crap out of these kids. They know more already than kids used to, as they have access to the latest research at their fingertips, took college classes in high school, and most have done independent research. They need you to speed up the chat and make it interesting. Kids can respond to you text before you finish hitting send (I really don't know how they do that).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, your rant about the "cause" is a decade too early. Current college students were not "raised on tik tok" or computers. They were watching Little Einsteins on DVD and that was considered "screen time." They didn't have ipads and most of their parents were just getting the first very expensive smart phones themselves. These kids didn't get them until about 8th grade unless they were super wealthy.

So they may not have been interested in your lecture, but the reason isn't that they had tik tok when they were 8 because they didn't.

Also, some kids with ASD wear semi noise canceling headphones as an accommodation to help them hear your lecture better and drown out the gum chewing, pencil tapping, loud breathing sounds that distract them to degrees not common among others. So unless you could hear the kids' music or something, you should assume it is an accommodation that is helping not hindering. My DS is never without headphones and no one realizes that he needs them (he wants it that way).

DP. I think you're underestimating how little it takes to wreck the mind/attention span. If the now-college students only got phones/iPads a few years ago (realistically closer to 10+ years ago), then Tiktok could easily destroy the attention span in that short time period.

Kindergartners with phones/iPads are another story. But they aren't in college yet (or maybe never).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, your rant about the "cause" is a decade too early. Current college students were not "raised on tik tok" or computers. They were watching Little Einsteins on DVD and that was considered "screen time." They didn't have ipads and most of their parents were just getting the first very expensive smart phones themselves. These kids didn't get them until about 8th grade unless they were super wealthy.

So they may not have been interested in your lecture, but the reason isn't that they had tik tok when they were 8 because they didn't.

Also, some kids with ASD wear semi noise canceling headphones as an accommodation to help them hear your lecture better and drown out the gum chewing, pencil tapping, loud breathing sounds that distract them to degrees not common among others. So unless you could hear the kids' music or something, you should assume it is an accommodation that is helping not hindering. My DS is never without headphones and no one realizes that he needs them (he wants it that way).

Of course they do. Some may just consider him rude but most know he needs them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the lecture is the same as it was a decade ago, I assure you that you are in fact boring the crap out of these kids. They know more already than kids used to, as they have access to the latest research at their fingertips, took college classes in high school, and most have done independent research. They need you to speed up the chat and make it interesting. Kids can respond to you text before you finish hitting send (I really don't know how they do that).

Boring the crap out of them? Probably. They already know everything? Absolutely not. The ones entering the workforce now show that to be false.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My siblings a college professor. He says it’s really bad for years and gotten worse. Critical thought is dead and there is no interest in reviving it. It’s bad news

That's because we no longer teach kids in a way that makes sense to teach them critical thinking. First stuff their heads with facts in elementary (so they have a basis from which to even begin to think), then teach them logic in middle, then teach the persuasion in high school. Dorothy Sayers was right.

They're now being taught persuasive writing in elementary school. That's one of the things that is leading to all these unintended consequences. Research is no longer about gathering general information that then gets analayzed. Research nowadays is entirely about finding support for the argument they come up with first.

And typically, their feelings are used as evidence...

In my kids' public school district at least, kids are taught to use research sources far sooner than they ever were in decades before. And in addition to persuasive writing they are taught analysis of sources. I think all the complainers need to actually look at the evidence in the curriculum before making unsupported blanket statements.

We used research sources just as early back in the day. The two differences, besides the practical one of internet versus books, is that there is now an emphasis on citations and the writing is persuasive instead of analytical.

The issue is that persuasive writing utilizes citations, and research, differently than analytical writing since by its very nature it is viewpoint biased. Starting with persuasive writing promotes cherry picking sources. Those of us that have written a lot know that that is the unspoken norm but like many things, eating or not eating vegetables for example, it is something we should be hoping to avoid for as long as possible. The issue therefore isn't the intent but the practical inculcation of bad habits brought about by starting with persuasive writing.

As a secondary issue we are promoting the formation of opinions before any analysis is done. That is one of the biggest problems with social media, instant reaction and hot takes. The encouragement of opinions without any issue specific understanding. It creates bad habits by teaching it early.

This is not what I'm seeing with my kids in high school and college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the lecture is the same as it was a decade ago, I assure you that you are in fact boring the crap out of these kids. They know more already than kids used to, as they have access to the latest research at their fingertips, took college classes in high school, and most have done independent research. They need you to speed up the chat and make it interesting. Kids can respond to you text before you finish hitting send (I really don't know how they do that).

LOL. This is like saying a kid knows his multiplication tables because he owns a calculator.

Our society is doomed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This absolutely cracks me up.

You're mad that the next generation has short attention spans, but have you ever stopped to consider that they're absorbing 1000x more information during the time in which it took you to finish your long and drawn out sentence?

Instructional design has yet to catch up and I'm guessing OP hasn't either. Nobody has time for a lecture that's a second longer than it needs to be.

These new generations have evolved to be more efficient and have perfected the ability to breakdown subject matter into bite sized pieces.

If it's not that, they don't want it...can you blame them? Time is the hottest commodity and Gen Z and Gen Alpha is all about protecting their time and being the most efficient with it.

Dumbest comment in the entire thread.

DP: This rings true. They absorb and process information far faster than we ever did. Our high school has taken some AP courses that used to be a year and teaching them to the brightest kids in one semester and they are getting 5s. Processing speeds are increasing and so is impatience with older generations.

[Anonymous]

It's not just technology. It's how they are taught now in K-12. They are not given textbooks. They are not expected to take notes. They are provided extra credit and second chances to re-take tests. They are taught in block format and have 2 days to complete material. There is little practice on memorizing facts. They have 3 devices in their hands all the time. They had tutors to work with them on individual subjects. They were front-loaded with material all the way from pre-K to high school by tutors, Kumon, RSM, AoPS, Outschool, Kahn, etc. and therefore were either not in need of taking notes or would just have the tutor re-teach the material directly to them later. They do not have good classroom habits or manners. They get up and leave the discussion to go to the bathroom throughout the lectures. They fight like "Karen's" for even small changes to their grades. They feel entitled to an A because the tuition is expensive. They are nasty on social media. Many things were handed to them over their lifetime, like name brand clothes, vacations, air plane rides, sports tutelage, etc. They did not have to work as hard to get these luxuries as past generations. They aren't going to start working hard and taking notes in your class, Op.