Secondary school BATHROOMS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps "Ring" doorbell cameras and buzzer to get in, just like at the front of the schools. Show ID card to camera before getting buzzed or have a scanner like when a parent has to get a visitor pass. Only allow as many kids as toilets. Smoke detectors, and maybe even a ceiling mounted security camera dome inside the bathroom (not over toilets, obv). If staffing allows, random bathroom sweeps to catch malfeasants.

Also, parents can try contacting ACLU, Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights re a Title IX complaint (disproportionate effect on those who menstruate).

Or find a lawyer for a class action suit. Or every parent whose kid suffered a monetarily quantifiable consequence (ruined clothing, trip to ER) sues in small claims court until policies change.

These are not mutually exclusive possibilities. I'm just spitballing.

I like this idea. I bet if the camera were to catch a kid clogging the toilet and then their punishment was having to clean the bathroom, this behavior would stop. I don't understand why kids behave like this. You can't tell me kids behave like this at home and destroy their home bathrooms.

some would like to blame social media TT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps "Ring" doorbell cameras and buzzer to get in, just like at the front of the schools. Show ID card to camera before getting buzzed or have a scanner like when a parent has to get a visitor pass. Only allow as many kids as toilets. Smoke detectors, and maybe even a ceiling mounted security camera dome inside the bathroom (not over toilets, obv). If staffing allows, random bathroom sweeps to catch malfeasants.

Also, parents can try contacting ACLU, Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights re a Title IX complaint (disproportionate effect on those who menstruate).

Or find a lawyer for a class action suit. Or every parent whose kid suffered a monetarily quantifiable consequence (ruined clothing, trip to ER) sues in small claims court until policies change.

These are not mutually exclusive possibilities. I'm just spitballing.

I like this idea. I bet if the camera were to catch a kid clogging the toilet and then their punishment was having to clean the bathroom, this behavior would stop. I don't understand why kids behave like this. You can't tell me kids behave like this at home and destroy their home bathrooms.

some would like to blame social media TT

+1, "because it was seen on TTok"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable. My mind is completely blown after reading this thread.

All I have to say is that my private school tuition is absolutely worth it even if ‘our kids all end up at the same colleges.’

Me too! I guess we're lucky our DCC school doesn't have these issues. My kids claim vaping isn't going on or anything like that. They mostly complain that its dirty or that kids look over the stalls which is creepy.

Which DCC school? My kids plays on a soccer team with kids from Wheaton, Blair and Einstein. They have all talked about vaping. I'm interested in hearing which schools do not have issues with drugs/vaping in the bathrooms. Maybe they are doing something better and other schools can follow that model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:nicole.asbury AT washpost.com

Nicole Asbury did a piece on Feb 26, 2023 titled 'Bathrooms are now some of the most dangerous places in Montgomery schools.'

Time for a one-year-later check in on MCPS school bathrooms, Nicole et al.

washingtonpost.com/education/2023/02/26/montgomery-county-schools-bathrooms-dangerous/

someone needs to email her

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable. My mind is completely blown after reading this thread.

All I have to say is that my private school tuition is absolutely worth it even if ‘our kids all end up at the same colleges.’

Why don't you stick to the private school forum then? Bye.

it's ok.. we can troll the private school forums

Not sure paying $100K for four years so the kid can use the bathroom of their choice is worth it, but whatever floats your shLt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition to physical limitations (closing facilities) many schools also limit numbers of passes for students. I counted what my child is "entitled to" based on the policies at his school and he can go 5x/class during a marking period, and has 7 classes, so he can go to the bathroom 35/45 days. I guess the other days he just has to go during lunch or hold it.

I have given him permission to just leave the room if he's denied access to a bathroom and needs it. I'll deal with the discipline. His doctor is willing to write a note because my kid has suffered from health consequences related to holding pee and poop before.

+1 we ended up in the ER due to blockage from DC holding it too much.

It really makes me mad that all kids are being punished for the actions of a few. If those kids want to vape, let them vape their little hearts out. Why should my kid be punished for the bad things those kids do?

That’s just the way things are now in Montgomery County.

The Fallsgrove Panera had to quit leaving coffee cups out because people were stealing them. It’s a pain for both staff and customers who used to use them.

Our Giant had to lock the second set of doors because of too much shoplifting where people would just take stuff and walk right out. Again, more hassle for people.

We have created a culture where nobody follows rules anymore here in Montgomery County (people ignore housing codes, residency requirments for school attendance, immigration rules) and it’s accepted and embraced.

There are rules in place for expected behavior in high school bathrooms. But those rules are universally ignored and the bathrooms are a sh&tshow, so it’s easier to just close them.

I went to buy my kid a Panera gift card for Christmas. They didn't have any gift cards -- people had stolen them all. They hadn't even been activated -- people are just jerks.

MCPS already has rules in place with its Code of Conduct. Students are expected to behave appropriately in bathrooms.

But that is not happening. The kids have learned that they can ignore the rules (just like adults do) and get away with it.

What else can schools do? MCPS would prefer to spend money on random initiatives, versus hire more staff. It’s kind of a mess. Easier to just close bathrooms.

How about informing students/families it'll go on student's school record if vandalizing, inappropriate behaviors inside school etc.? Can a school social worker, if within their job description, visit student's home to talk to caretaker if caretaker is not responding to school admin's calls or messages?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable. My mind is completely blown after reading this thread.

All I have to say is that my private school tuition is absolutely worth it even if ‘our kids all end up at the same colleges.’

Why don't you stick to the private school forum then? Bye.

it's ok.. we can troll the private school forums

Not sure paying $100K for four years so the kid can use the bathroom of their choice is worth it, but whatever floats your shLt.

private school parent is clueless. plenty of private school students doing similar things over at the privates.

[Anonymous]

The kids all know that the bathrooms are now the only place without cameras. So all the negative behavior is purposely relocated to the bathrooms. It’s almost like we need to give an unmonitored space for criminal activity and then the kids who don’t want that can just avoid that room. (I’m not serious but still.) part of the problem is that kids will lock themselves into stalls for extended periods during stuff that is not toilet related.). So you can wait in line for 15 minutes and the line doesn’t move because some kid is in there vaping while they scroll their phone.

They do have cameras outside the bathroom so probably do have a way to check for long or frequent usage but it would require someone to watch the footage and monitor the data — short of AI, that’s not really possible.

I love the idea of scanning in for the bathroom. That would then allow them to easily alert parents of the frequent fliers who could determine if it’s a bladder/GI issue or a behavioral issue.

I think it’s really hard to say how many parents would care or not care because it’s my inderstanding most parents are not being informed of issues unless individual teachers reach out, which most don’t have time/energy to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition to physical limitations (closing facilities) many schools also limit numbers of passes for students. I counted what my child is "entitled to" based on the policies at his school and he can go 5x/class during a marking period, and has 7 classes, so he can go to the bathroom 35/45 days. I guess the other days he just has to go during lunch or hold it.

I have given him permission to just leave the room if he's denied access to a bathroom and needs it. I'll deal with the discipline. His doctor is willing to write a note because my kid has suffered from health consequences related to holding pee and poop before.

+1 we ended up in the ER due to blockage from DC holding it too much.

It really makes me mad that all kids are being punished for the actions of a few. If those kids want to vape, let them vape their little hearts out. Why should my kid be punished for the bad things those kids do?

That’s just the way things are now in Montgomery County.

The Fallsgrove Panera had to quit leaving coffee cups out because people were stealing them. It’s a pain for both staff and customers who used to use them.

Our Giant had to lock the second set of doors because of too much shoplifting where people would just take stuff and walk right out. Again, more hassle for people.

We have created a culture where nobody follows rules anymore here in Montgomery County (people ignore housing codes, residency requirments for school attendance, immigration rules) and it’s accepted and embraced.

There are rules in place for expected behavior in high school bathrooms. But those rules are universally ignored and the bathrooms are a sh&tshow, so it’s easier to just close them.

I went to buy my kid a Panera gift card for Christmas. They didn't have any gift cards -- people had stolen them all. They hadn't even been activated -- people are just jerks.

MCPS already has rules in place with its Code of Conduct. Students are expected to behave appropriately in bathrooms.

But that is not happening. The kids have learned that they can ignore the rules (just like adults do) and get away with it.

What else can schools do? MCPS would prefer to spend money on random initiatives, versus hire more staff. It’s kind of a mess. Easier to just close bathrooms.

How about informing students/families it'll go on student's school record if vandalizing, inappropriate behaviors inside school etc.? Can a school social worker, if within their job description, visit student's home to talk to caretaker if caretaker is not responding to school admin's calls or messages?

How can you prove that a particular student was responsible for vandalism inside a bathroom stall/in the bathroom? Schools cannot have cameras IN bathrooms (and they should not!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition to physical limitations (closing facilities) many schools also limit numbers of passes for students. I counted what my child is "entitled to" based on the policies at his school and he can go 5x/class during a marking period, and has 7 classes, so he can go to the bathroom 35/45 days. I guess the other days he just has to go during lunch or hold it.

I have given him permission to just leave the room if he's denied access to a bathroom and needs it. I'll deal with the discipline. His doctor is willing to write a note because my kid has suffered from health consequences related to holding pee and poop before.

+1 we ended up in the ER due to blockage from DC holding it too much.

It really makes me mad that all kids are being punished for the actions of a few. If those kids want to vape, let them vape their little hearts out. Why should my kid be punished for the bad things those kids do?

That’s just the way things are now in Montgomery County.

The Fallsgrove Panera had to quit leaving coffee cups out because people were stealing them. It’s a pain for both staff and customers who used to use them.

Our Giant had to lock the second set of doors because of too much shoplifting where people would just take stuff and walk right out. Again, more hassle for people.

We have created a culture where nobody follows rules anymore here in Montgomery County (people ignore housing codes, residency requirments for school attendance, immigration rules) and it’s accepted and embraced.

There are rules in place for expected behavior in high school bathrooms. But those rules are universally ignored and the bathrooms are a sh&tshow, so it’s easier to just close them.

I went to buy my kid a Panera gift card for Christmas. They didn't have any gift cards -- people had stolen them all. They hadn't even been activated -- people are just jerks.

MCPS already has rules in place with its Code of Conduct. Students are expected to behave appropriately in bathrooms.

But that is not happening. The kids have learned that they can ignore the rules (just like adults do) and get away with it.

What else can schools do? MCPS would prefer to spend money on random initiatives, versus hire more staff. It’s kind of a mess. Easier to just close bathrooms.

How about informing students/families it'll go on student's school record if vandalizing, inappropriate behaviors inside school etc.? Can a school social worker, if within their job description, visit student's home to talk to caretaker if caretaker is not responding to school admin's calls or messages?

Vandalizing public property is already a crime that should be prosecuted by the county.

[Anonymous]

Thinking about my high school days which were when the legal age to buy cigarettes changed from 16 to 18 which meant the system got rid of the smoking courtyard at my high school. Then kids just started smoking right off campus on non-MCPS property and occasionally in bathrooms. I ended up transferring to a newer high school that had never had a smoking section and had nicer bathrooms and kids smoked occasionally but nobody was vandalizing them other than maybe a little bit of graffitti here and there.

One thing that I think isn't talked about enough is that the bathrooms are gross even when they are technically clean. I went to an event at an up county high school and used the bathroom. There was mismatched paint on the walls, non-functional things like hand dryers on the walls that just looked like clutter. The toilet seats seemed to be sanitized but looked terrible - cracked, stained, and just icky. The doors either didn't shut or had wonky locks. It was just a truly unpleasant atmosphere and clearly the building services either don't care or don't have the resources to keep them looking like the condition matters. I can't help but think that maybe if the bathrooms weren't gross, kids wouldn't destroy them as much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thinking about my high school days which were when the legal age to buy cigarettes changed from 16 to 18 which meant the system got rid of the smoking courtyard at my high school. Then kids just started smoking right off campus on non-MCPS property and occasionally in bathrooms. I ended up transferring to a newer high school that had never had a smoking section and had nicer bathrooms and kids smoked occasionally but nobody was vandalizing them other than maybe a little bit of graffitti here and there.

One thing that I think isn't talked about enough is that the bathrooms are gross even when they are technically clean. I went to an event at an up county high school and used the bathroom. There was mismatched paint on the walls, non-functional things like hand dryers on the walls that just looked like clutter. The toilet seats seemed to be sanitized but looked terrible - cracked, stained, and just icky. The doors either didn't shut or had wonky locks. It was just a truly unpleasant atmosphere and clearly the building services either don't care or don't have the resources to keep them looking like the condition matters. I can't help but think that maybe if the bathrooms weren't gross, kids wouldn't destroy them as much.

That may have been true in the past, but at Wheaton the bathrooms are being damaged on a daily basis. It is no longer possible to keep up with the frequency of the destruction. Teens roaming from high school to high school during the day don't help to keep control over high schools. Free bus service is not helpful during school hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable. My mind is completely blown after reading this thread.

All I have to say is that my private school tuition is absolutely worth it even if ‘our kids all end up at the same colleges.’

Me too! I guess we're lucky our DCC school doesn't have these issues. My kids claim vaping isn't going on or anything like that. They mostly complain that its dirty or that kids look over the stalls which is creepy.

Which DCC school? My kids plays on a soccer team with kids from Wheaton, Blair and Einstein. They have all talked about vaping. I'm interested in hearing which schools do not have issues with drugs/vaping in the bathrooms. Maybe they are doing something better and other schools can follow that model.

I was talking about the MS my kids goto.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable. My mind is completely blown after reading this thread.

All I have to say is that my private school tuition is absolutely worth it even if ‘our kids all end up at the same colleges.’

Me too! I guess we're lucky our DCC school doesn't have these issues. My kids claim vaping isn't going on or anything like that. They mostly complain that its dirty or that kids look over the stalls which is creepy.

Which DCC school? My kids plays on a soccer team with kids from Wheaton, Blair and Einstein. They have all talked about vaping. I'm interested in hearing which schools do not have issues with drugs/vaping in the bathrooms. Maybe they are doing something better and other schools can follow that model.

I was talking about the MS my kids goto.

Which middle school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition to physical limitations (closing facilities) many schools also limit numbers of passes for students. I counted what my child is "entitled to" based on the policies at his school and he can go 5x/class during a marking period, and has 7 classes, so he can go to the bathroom 35/45 days. I guess the other days he just has to go during lunch or hold it.

I have given him permission to just leave the room if he's denied access to a bathroom and needs it. I'll deal with the discipline. His doctor is willing to write a note because my kid has suffered from health consequences related to holding pee and poop before.

+1 we ended up in the ER due to blockage from DC holding it too much.

It really makes me mad that all kids are being punished for the actions of a few. If those kids want to vape, let them vape their little hearts out. Why should my kid be punished for the bad things those kids do?

That’s just the way things are now in Montgomery County.

The Fallsgrove Panera had to quit leaving coffee cups out because people were stealing them. It’s a pain for both staff and customers who used to use them.

Our Giant had to lock the second set of doors because of too much shoplifting where people would just take stuff and walk right out. Again, more hassle for people.

We have created a culture where nobody follows rules anymore here in Montgomery County (people ignore housing codes, residency requirments for school attendance, immigration rules) and it’s accepted and embraced.

There are rules in place for expected behavior in high school bathrooms. But those rules are universally ignored and the bathrooms are a sh&tshow, so it’s easier to just close them.

I went to buy my kid a Panera gift card for Christmas. They didn't have any gift cards -- people had stolen them all. They hadn't even been activated -- people are just jerks.

MCPS already has rules in place with its Code of Conduct. Students are expected to behave appropriately in bathrooms.

But that is not happening. The kids have learned that they can ignore the rules (just like adults do) and get away with it.

What else can schools do? MCPS would prefer to spend money on random initiatives, versus hire more staff. It’s kind of a mess. Easier to just close bathrooms.

How about informing students/families it'll go on student's school record if vandalizing, inappropriate behaviors inside school etc.? Can a school social worker, if within their job description, visit student's home to talk to caretaker if caretaker is not responding to school admin's calls or messages?

Vandalizing public property is already a crime that should be prosecuted by the county.

How do you expect schools to investigate an incident of vandalism in the bathroom? How can they prove who vandalized a particular bathroom stall? How can a school prove that a kid was smoking weed in a restroom?

There is not enough security staff in schools to do this. And cameras in bathrooms are not a viable option.