Bring Back Loss of Credit for Skipping Class!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has mcps done this school year to mitigate students skipping class? When driving to work mid morning, will see students outside or they'll be gathered at a local coffee place. Not sure if those days happen to be a different schedule at school or it's a regular for students

Nothing. MCPS has done nothing. At my school, the problem is as bad as ever. We end up just passing the kids because no one knows what to do with them.

Do they still send out "your kid was absent today" calls or messages? If they still do, can they continually send those messages to guardians until guardian excuses student for that day?

Automatic emails, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has mcps done this school year to mitigate students skipping class? When driving to work mid morning, will see students outside or they'll be gathered at a local coffee place. Not sure if those days happen to be a different schedule at school or it's a regular for students

Nothing. MCPS has done nothing. At my school, the problem is as bad as ever. We end up just passing the kids because no one knows what to do with them.

Do they still send out "your kid was absent today" calls or messages? If they still do, can they continually send those messages to guardians until guardian excuses student for that day?

Automatic emails, yes.

I stopped getting those this year for whatever reason.

[Anonymous]

They send both calls and emails. Apparently, one is not enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has mcps done this school year to mitigate students skipping class? When driving to work mid morning, will see students outside or they'll be gathered at a local coffee place. Not sure if those days happen to be a different schedule at school or it's a regular for students

Nothing. MCPS has done nothing. At my school, the problem is as bad as ever. We end up just passing the kids because no one knows what to do with them.

Do they still send out "your kid was absent today" calls or messages? If they still do, can they continually send those messages to guardians until guardian excuses student for that day?

Automatic emails, yes.

I stopped getting those this year for whatever reason.

There are reports of some students blocking the number on their parents phone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has mcps done this school year to mitigate students skipping class? When driving to work mid morning, will see students outside or they'll be gathered at a local coffee place. Not sure if those days happen to be a different schedule at school or it's a regular for students

Nothing. MCPS has done nothing. At my school, the problem is as bad as ever. We end up just passing the kids because no one knows what to do with them.

Do they still send out "your kid was absent today" calls or messages? If they still do, can they continually send those messages to guardians until guardian excuses student for that day?

Automatic emails, yes.

I stopped getting those this year for whatever reason.

There are reports of some students blocking the number on their parents phone.

And emails too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if MCPS is considering bringing back loss of credit for unexcused absences and tardies?

For the past several years—but this year in particular— we have 100s of students in the hall during passing periods. My school is over 2,000 students. Admin refuses to address the problem. Teachers are burnt out from trying to get the kids out of the halls and into classrooms. Nothing is working. Over the summer, students risked loss of credit for unexcused absences and (shocker) kids were concerned about getting to class everyday on time.

Parents… Is there no concern that we have this many kids in the hallway unsupervised? Bathrooms closed so kids don’t congregate and vape?

MCPS has literally set the bar on the floor with the 50% rule. Kids can pass as long as they are in class.

Why does MCPS ignore this very real problem that impacts the safety and functionality of our school system on a day to day basis?

This has been my dream for several years now!! I teach HS in MCPS and I hate it!!! So do all the teachers that I know. I literally have a student with a 0% who has attended my class 4 times this quarter who decided to show up on Friday and ask me what he can do to pass my class. He also asked me when my planning periods are so I can help him complete the work. He knows the game. So do many savvy students. If he comes to see me during my planning, I will definitely have a last minute meeting. I refuse to help a student who has come to my class 4 times. Because there’s no rule for losing credit due to lack of attendance, it falls on teachers and maybe supportive Admin to tell students - sorry. They may or may not take that for an answer. Same with their parents.

When my school talks about attendance in staff meetings, it’s always about lack of resources and lack of support as the reason students don’t attend. That’s true for some students, but I would say for most, the reason they don’t attend is because there are no consequences, so why should they? They’re not intrinsically motivated….

Also, what about the CE rule? I have students I haven’t seen since before winter break. They earned a C for quarter 1 and they know they have already passed for the semester so we won’t expect to see them again until February. Why can’t the BOE open their eyes and make some changes!?! I wish more people would speak up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if MCPS is considering bringing back loss of credit for unexcused absences and tardies?

For the past several years—but this year in particular— we have 100s of students in the hall during passing periods. My school is over 2,000 students. Admin refuses to address the problem. Teachers are burnt out from trying to get the kids out of the halls and into classrooms. Nothing is working. Over the summer, students risked loss of credit for unexcused absences and (shocker) kids were concerned about getting to class everyday on time.

Parents… Is there no concern that we have this many kids in the hallway unsupervised? Bathrooms closed so kids don’t congregate and vape?

MCPS has literally set the bar on the floor with the 50% rule. Kids can pass as long as they are in class.

Why does MCPS ignore this very real problem that impacts the safety and functionality of our school system on a day to day basis?

This has been my dream for several years now!! I teach HS in MCPS and I hate it!!! So do all the teachers that I know. I literally have a student with a 0% who has attended my class 4 times this quarter who decided to show up on Friday and ask me what he can do to pass my class. He also asked me when my planning periods are so I can help him complete the work. He knows the game. So do many savvy students. If he comes to see me during my planning, I will definitely have a last minute meeting. I refuse to help a student who has come to my class 4 times. Because there’s no rule for losing credit due to lack of attendance, it falls on teachers and maybe supportive Admin to tell students - sorry. They may or may not take that for an answer. Same with their parents.

When my school talks about attendance in staff meetings, it’s always about lack of resources and lack of support as the reason students don’t attend. That’s true for some students, but I would say for most, the reason they don’t attend is because there are no consequences, so why should they? They’re not intrinsically motivated….

Also, what about the CE rule? I have students I haven’t seen since before winter break. They earned a C for quarter 1 and they know they have already passed for the semester so we won’t expect to see them again until February. Why can’t the BOE open their eyes and make some changes!?! I wish more people would speak up.

Then life is the consequence which is what society actually tells us they want tonne the consequence. We don’t want these folks in class, we don’t want to build enough classrooms and alternative education programs, we don’t want to pay teachers or greatly improve teacher and administrator training programs, we don’t want to fully fund mental health and healthcare generally, and now we’re afraid to tell kids you fail the class not just because of lack of attendance but failure to meet any of the markers that indicates you know the content. So then life is the consequence.

[Anonymous]

It's much easier to force teachers to fraud some numbers than get students to show up well behaved. Teachers will do anything for some poverty wages.

[Anonymous]

MCPS has made it clear that "punitive" policies like Loss of Credit will not come back.

In part, because they didn't change the behavior of the students impacted. The other part is because it was subjectively enforced, with white, privileged kids being able to skirt around the policy while lower income Black and brown students could not.

I also think the state plays a role in this stance, but I'm fuzzier on that level.

I think one thing that makes even entertaining a return to this policy is just how HORRIBLE attendance taking is in MCPS. It's wildly under-resourced and inaccurate. So if you're going to punish children and families for a lack of attendance, the accuracy of attendance data needs to get a whole lot better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I fully agree! My DD knows that she can skip class as many times as she wants with no school penalty. I know parents like to say to have hone consequences, but we need help from the school! If DD can skip/be late15 times a quarter and still earn an A, that’s a problem.

As a parent I don't really care. I mean if kids don't want to be in school they should do something else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just posted above at 21:19....as far as grades go, trust me these hall walkers are failing classes at my school.

I don't say that as a matter of pride or happiness. But they sure as hell aren't passing.

The problem isn't the skipping as it relates to grades.

The problem is the sanctity of these institutions has been sullied by MCPS. It feels like the people who made these policies have either never worked in a high school before or haven't been in schools for like 10-15+ years.

It's dystopian seeing this. No joke, you parents here would just be so sad. I'm sure some of you would blame us staff. Go ahead if that floats your boat. It's just the policies of the district that leads to this.

Microcosm of society, really......

What do you think would help? What kind of policy reforms do you think would be effective? Do you need extra resources (cameras, something else)? More personnel (counselors, SRO’s, aides, volunteers, etc.)?

It’s hard for the public to know what’s needed, and MCPS clearly doesn’t know, but I think if someone could suggest a way to improve things, there’d be community support. With the upcoming election it might be a good time to try to see which candidates are actually interested in addressing the problem.

I'm the guy you replied to last night. I woke up early just to write this before I get ready to go (Frederick resident....born and raised in MoCo but can't afford to live there, at least in a place I can have my family comfortably living in....tale as old as time).

1. More accountability AND support for parents. I'm not gonna identify my high school but let's just say it's a "highly impacted" one. Way too many parents say things like "I don't know what to do to get him to go to class/get out of the halls/stop skipping/stop leaving campus." Or, "I don't know how to get him to get up on time and go to school and listen to me." Also, "I just need you all (school staff) to motivate him and make him want to go to school/class/care." I am not kidding, in my role in MCPS, they're literally by far the most common responses. They dwarf the responses of "Thank you all for the efforts you are putting in. We will work on this at home. I'm looking forward to working together on this." And before anyone says anything, like I said earlier, we bust our asses to support these kids but there's a line we have to draw before it becomes the parent giving up and dumping the kid on us.

So first thing's first, parent support groups—single mothers groups; single fathers groups; non-parental caregiver groups; parenting classes; family counseling; family tutoring; I could go on and on. Those should not only be provided, but mandated when a certain threshold of attendance and/or behavior violations have occurred. As a parent myself, I feel like I should have consequences for my child's repeated actions.

And no, not everything is an educational disability. Maybe Instagram or Facebook groups make parents think any time their kid farts they need an IEP. It's OK to accept that it's mostly NOT a disability and, instead, it's (a) choices made by the kid, (b) choices made by the parent, and (c) lack of accountability on the parent in having to pursue these things I described.

Call me what you will but it starts at home, full stop.

2. Major changes in school experience for students and parents entering Semester 6. What do I mean by this? When students enter their 6th semester—typically semester 2 of their third year (i.e. 11th grade)—if the student is way behind in credits, still having attendance issues, still walking the halls, etc. then there needs to be a systematic and mandatory district-wide process.

Let me first say that we MUST significantly fade the availability of credit recovery (Edmentum) and bring back high school plus. If a kid fails a class big time, they should NOT be allowed to do credit recovery on Edmentum. They need to retake it. If they fail by X percent (say, by 5%) and they had solid attendance then give them the option of credit recovery. But if they never went to class and just bombed it since they expected they could do it all later online in a few days on Edmentum, that's gotta end. They need to do HS+ or summer school or retake for original credit in the school year some other time. So think about this through this lens.

Any family whose student meets certain criteria like I described above when they enter that 6th semester will be mandated to have a meeting with their administrator, counselor, PPW, and any other related school staff. In that meeting there will be a discussion about what the next three (or more) semesters will look like. There will be a clear graduation pathway outlined. There will be strict adherence to withdrawing after 10 consecutive absences. There will be mandated meetings for the parent to come into the school far more often than they may be used to when their kid is skipping, etc. The stakes will rise and the expectations will too.

And then, if it's evident the student will need to come back for a 5th year, the stakes raise even more. Strict adherence to withdraw after 10 consecutive absences. Automatic parent/admin/counselor/PPW meeting after 5 consecutive absences. Regularly discuss things like Job Corps, GED, etc. Sorry folks, I know they have a right to access school until age 21, but if they want to be in HS at age 19, we're talking about an adult here. They have to feel the pain if they want to keep screwing around.

Call me what you want—a mean evil jerk—but the parents and students need to be accountable. I've been teaching/leading in high school for 15 years and I've concluded that this key component is missing. Too much responsibility on the institution/school (read: government) and not enough on the student/parent (read: individual).

3. Reading, math, executive functioning, and personal/professional skills interventions are mandatory to varying degrees for ALL students. Every single student in MCPS who enters 9th grade for the first time must be enrolled in one or more of those interventions. Full stop.

The idea that a 14 year old is a fully formed adult and doesn't even need, at a minimum, personal/professional skills training for a year is absurd. Families who push back at this since their little Johnny is a perfect little gentleman and can, at 14, just move off to the big city and have a career need to get a grip. Because that's what they're saying—their child has perfected his personal/professional skills at 14. Ridiculous! Those skills are just as important as English, math, science, social studies, etc., if not MORE important.

But not all kids are Little Perfect Johnny. I have done deep dives into the data many times....MAP-R, MAP-M, missing assignment trends, etc. Folks, these kids can't read. They can't do basic math. They can barely keep track of their assignments. And yet, we have this ridiculous zombie mindset from the Bush/Obama years that we need to push college and career readiness. THESE ARE 14 YEAR OLDS! Forget about college and career readiness if they can't read even on a 5th grade level. You'd be SHOCKED how many students—non IEP, non 504, non ESOL, non FARMS—who are in high school and read on an elementary level but have NEVER had a reading intervention.

We as a school system need to fix that. Change the mindset. Remember there are basic skills these kids don't have. Most of the kids in the halls probably can't read, at least for comprehension. Many still have decoding issues. And it's not always a reading disability. So if we want to fix the hallways, attendance, behaviors, we have to as a society and system stop wanting to just smell our own farts all day and pat ourselves on the back that our students are doing such awesome and cool stuff to become college and career ready (YAY GO US!) and wake up to the reality that not only is reading and math intervention disincentivized in high school, but also in middle school and elementary.

Call me what you want but we gotta fix that.

[/b]OK that's it.[/b] I could keep going but these three things are keys to fixing these issues IMO. Time to get ready to get on the road! Have a great Friday and weekend!!

MCPS teacher here - you have some great ideas!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has made it clear that "punitive" policies like Loss of Credit will not come back.

In part, because they didn't change the behavior of the students impacted. The other part is because it was subjectively enforced, with white, privileged kids being able to skirt around the policy while lower income Black and brown students could not.

I also think the state plays a role in this stance, but I'm fuzzier on that level.

I think one thing that makes even entertaining a return to this policy is just how HORRIBLE attendance taking is in MCPS. It's wildly under-resourced and inaccurate. So if you're going to punish children and families for a lack of attendance, the accuracy of attendance data needs to get a whole lot better.

My white children were never able to skirt around the loss of credit requirements (2009, 2010, 2011 grads) in an East County MCPS high school. Their teachers and coaches ensured they never came close to losing credit in any class all 4 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has made it clear that "punitive" policies like Loss of Credit will not come back.

In part, because they didn't change the behavior of the students impacted. The other part is because it was subjectively enforced, with white, privileged kids being able to skirt around the policy while lower income Black and brown students could not.

I also think the state plays a role in this stance, but I'm fuzzier on that level.

I think one thing that makes even entertaining a return to this policy is just how HORRIBLE attendance taking is in MCPS. It's wildly under-resourced and inaccurate. So if you're going to punish children and families for a lack of attendance, the accuracy of attendance data needs to get a whole lot better.

My white children were never able to skirt around the loss of credit requirements (2009, 2010, 2011 grads) in an East County MCPS high school. Their teachers and coaches ensured they never came close to losing credit in any class all 4 years.

I'm not sure what your reply is supposed to prove?

It's not even clear, based on your response, that you or your kids even TRIED to skirt the LC rule and policy? You're just saying your kids' teachers and coaches kept a close eye on their attendance to ensure they never were in danger in getting an LC? How does that relate to what I was talking about?

[Anonymous]

Bringing this thread back to life. Any news from our new MCPS Superintendent if they will address this issue now?

[Anonymous]

how does one suggest it? Would be great if he brought this back.