Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

[Anonymous]

In the 1990s, my father told me you get into an Ivy or you go to state u. Motivated me to get into an Ivy, which I did. Of course, that was when you really just needed excellent grades and high scores.

It sort of doesn't make sense to pay Cadillac prices for a Chevy when you've got a perfectly good Toyota at half the cost.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I agree - this is our plan.

I have been saying for a few years that I think grad school is the new college, so it makes sense to go to a state college and save some $ for grad school.

I honestly don't understand this logic at all. So many grad schools / grad degrees produce kids with poor outcomes. So many jobs/industries don't care about a grad degree whatsoever.

This is another skewed DMV perspective that worked for you, but you can't rely on it holding going forward.

I don't interact with too many people without post-grad degrees. Came to DC from NYC, so I guess it’s the crowd. My oldest is interested in engineering - and my dad and his dad were engineers and both had master’s. My dad’s company paid for him to get it (probably my grandfather’s did too). But I don’t think either of them thought it was worthless.

You are right...but unclear if they would have thought it worth paying for that master with their own nickel. I get anyone pursuing a grad degree for free. In which case...nobody had to save anything for their Masters.

Most CEOs have nothing more than a Bachelor's (60%) and of course, there are plenty of folks starting and running tech companies that either dropped out of college or never went to college at all.

I just don't understand the rationale that graduate school is the new college.

I don’t think college differentiates as much as it used to - because so many go now - I guess is my rationale. But I am aware of Mark Zuckerberg.

not just Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs & Gates. There's more of them than you'd think.
Dorsey-Twitter, Ellison-oracle, Park-Fitbit, Mullenweg-Wordpress, Collison-Stripe, Parker-napster, Koum-whatsapp, Ferdowski-Dropbox, Kalanick-Uber, Pittman-iHeartMedia, Karp-Tumblr, Dell-Dell, you get the picture. Could name another 20 off-hand.

I would argue that those people are more special than most willing to take risk, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Truthfully, as a slightly higher than donut hole range family---it's hard to justify $85k-90k year at even the top 10 schools. It's gotten way out of hand!

If you haven’t saved for it, yes. But if you’ve been saving you would have 300k+ in a 529 and then you realize, this is exactly why we saved and let your kid attend if it’s their first choice

[Anonymous]

USNA is the #3 SLAC behind Williams and Amherst. Just saying, get a great 5 year work experience and the price is right!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Markets will adjust and Ivy-plus will begin offering more made or reducing cost of attendance in other ways.

+1 This!

At some point the 'bubble' will burst and even the Ivy-plus schools will have to adjust as there won't be enough people with the requisite stats and also wealthy enough to pay for 5%+ expense increases per year. Either they'd have to significantly lower standards to let in others who can afford it or get creative with pricing and aid (eg. do what Purdue U. is doing) in order to maintain standards. Bubbles eventually burst no matter how long it takes, circa 2008 Real Estate.

Ivy+ are need blind and meet 100% need. So don't hold your breath for anything to change.

You will have to be poor or rich to attend these schools.

They have made it impossible for the vast majority of middle income families that will get zero aid.

And, according to Selingo and this thread, these families are skipping on down to the 50 or 75+ tier where merit aid is plentiful. So don't hold your breath waiting for a bubble to burst so that donut hole families can well-afford T1-50.

There are also plenty in the “donut hole “ range who actually chose to save for their kids education/made it a priority and thus can allow their kid to pick anywhere they want to attend

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Truthfully, as a slightly higher than donut hole range family---it's hard to justify $85k-90k year at even the top 10 schools. It's gotten way out of hand!

This! I’ll never understand it. No place is worth that much.

It's worth it to us. You don't need to understand.

Care to elaborate? How is it worth it?

For one, stock market gains have greatly enhanced our kids' 529s, so the money is there. DH told them they could go to any college they could get into (they were A-/B+ high school students). 2 of them were accepted to 40-50 ranked colleges that were very reach-y. In state option would have been JMU at best. (The third was always a great student and thrilled to be accepted to UVA). For the 2 pricey full pays, they just love/d their college experience and I think the new environment really motivated them to push hard in college. They had better connections, better internships, better job opportunities. Overall, they were just much better-suited, better grades, better students and happier kids in college than high school. Sure, lots of factors, but that's why it was worth it for us. If it had been costing us our retirement or food on the table, they'd be going to JMU and hopefully grateful.

This^^^

If you have the money saved, going to the right fit for your kid college can make a huge difference.

Us personally let our kid turn down a t50 with 65% tuition award, so halving the 85k to attend a t40 at full pay 85k.

Most would not do that—our kid knows that. But for us the money is there, our kid really loved the other school and it is a near perfect fit for them. So we are paying it.

Then again the NPc says our contribution is over 1M per year so it’s an investment that has minimal impact on our finances and was well planned for (it’s all in a 529 plus some for grad school if needed)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the 1990s, my father told me you get into an Ivy or you go to state u. Motivated me to get into an Ivy, which I did. Of course, that was when you really just needed excellent grades and high scores.

It sort of doesn't make sense to pay Cadillac prices for a Chevy when you've got a perfectly good Toyota at half the cost.

Some of us do not consider schools ranked 30-50 “Chevy” caliber. We view them as top notch and worth the cost to us, especially if it’s the right fit for our kid

[Anonymous]

we have lot of 529 gains but also understand NPV

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Truthfully, as a slightly higher than donut hole range family---it's hard to justify $85k-90k year at even the top 10 schools. It's gotten way out of hand!

If you haven’t saved for it, yes. But if you’ve been saving you would have 300k+ in a 529 and then you realize, this is exactly why we saved and let your kid attend if it’s their first choice

If all you do is save, well, you're not going to have $300,000 per kid. Save and also make risky investments that pay off, maybe.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So it’s surprising or newsworthy or forward-thinking to suggest that $200k families don’t/wont/can’t pay $400k for Villanova or Tulane?

Yes, because just a year ago those schools didn’t cost entirely that much. Tipping point reached.

Yes. Also test-optional makes these schools much less attractive. It’s one thing to stretch, financially, when telling yourself that your kid will be among his intellectual peers. Iron sharpens iron and all that. But if only 15% of students are reporting scores … what are you paying for, again? You can get a mix of students, including some very strong ones, at the flagship.

This. 100%.

https://www.tiktok.com/@supertutortv/video/7327004377451957547?lang=en

A 1300 is still ~90th percentile. There's a lot of such students at the "non Ivy plus" schools to begin with.

TO doesn't mean "dumb."

A goofy lady on tik Tik Tok isn't very persuasive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:USNA is the #3 SLAC behind Williams and Amherst. Just saying, get a great 5 year work experience and the price is right!

"Return with honor."

[Anonymous]

There is something so wrong about basing a college decision on that.

[Anonymous]

I think fit is a weird thing. Some kids take a 90 minute tour and it feels right. some kids don't like the color of the uniforms. this is not really logical.

A lot of kids can be happy in a lot of schools. Plenty of lower ranked schools have a lot more opportunities for intellectually curious kids (good luck writing for the Princeton paper if you were editor of your HS paper). If you have a kid who wants to try new things instead of doing more of the same thing they've done before, look widely is my advice.

And if you had a kid who liked HS, they'll love college. If you had a kid who hated HS, I think it can be trickier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Markets will adjust and Ivy-plus will begin offering more made or reducing cost of attendance in other ways.

+1 This!

At some point the 'bubble' will burst and even the Ivy-plus schools will have to adjust as there won't be enough people with the requisite stats and also wealthy enough to pay for 5%+ expense increases per year. Either they'd have to significantly lower standards to let in others who can afford it or get creative with pricing and aid (eg. do what Purdue U. is doing) in order to maintain standards. Bubbles eventually burst no matter how long it takes, circa 2008 Real Estate.

Ivy+ are need blind and meet 100% need. So don't hold your breath for anything to change.

You will have to be poor or rich to attend these schools.

They have made it impossible for the vast majority of middle income families that will get zero aid.

And, according to Selingo and this thread, these families are skipping on down to the 50 or 75+ tier where merit aid is plentiful. So don't hold your breath waiting for a bubble to burst so that donut hole families can well-afford T1-50.

UMD is a great in state flagship option - and is T50.

Affordable and workable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:USNA is the #3 SLAC behind Williams and Amherst. Just saying, get a great 5 year work experience and the price is right!

It’s not a SLAC.