Will Admissions Officers pick up on clues in application regarding URM?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For those who think colleges already have a workaround in place, I did not see many URMs at my kid's ivy. Just walk around. This is admittedly a sample size of 1 ivy. However, I've not been able to verify published URM demographics.

Well, you will see significantly fewer URM kids in the future. Free gravy train is over.

What I meant was when colleges claim that nothing will change, my suspicious mind says they will simply exaggerate the percentage of black students on their campus. That's their workaround.

As far as I know no colleges have claimed that. They all say they will continue to work to find a different path. But as AP article (link up-thread) reported, they have not identified a workaround. Many have tried, none found.

The one who claim nothing will change are some DCUM posters here. I think many of them are still in denial and, it appears, many don't read news.

I think OP's question is off. Ivies publicly claim they will continue to try to diversify. The reality is that there aren't that many black students to begin with. What they say publicly may not be what they do in private.

I don't doubt they will continue to try that. This decision just makes it more difficult. The fact you didn't see too many of URMs on campus doesn't necessary mean the school didn't try hard enough. It just means that, even w/ help of AA, there just aren't enough URM kids to select from.

Keep believing that, while Ling Ling gets rejected.

There are enough high stats URMs to get to the 5-6% average at elite colleges for Blacks, 7-8% for Hispanics, and 0 5% for Native Americans.

Define "high stats"?

Are you the same poster that wanted to find all Top 1% test takers and then draw red lines around them by race / ethnicity? As in, find the few thousand URMs with 1500-1600 SAT scores and then re-categorize them to see whether or not they can be further sorted?

Stand in the mirror and stare at yourself for a few minutes.

And maybe say "Candyman" a few times while you're at

? I'm not that PP. I'm a DP.

You stated: "There are enough high stats URMs to get to the 5-6% average at elite colleges for Blacks, 7-8% for Hispanics, and 0 5% for Native Americans."

I was asking how you define "high stats".

There are at least 10 elite colleges in this country. How many URM score 1500+? Are there enough of them to have a 10 to 15% representation in each of the top 10 elite colleges?

This is so sad. They used bars (vs lines) but you still can't see it on the far right side. How sad is that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are the uber-wealthy URMs, many of whom go to elite private schools in the DMV (we all know them), going to write essays talking about how disadvantaged they are? These are kids who have been getting into Ivies, etc., but I'm not sure they will be anymore. This is the group the USSC decision will impact most, not the first gen URMs or URMs at privates on financial aid.

Cops just see black...they don't ask their economic class before shooting them. UMC blacks experience racism like any other class of blacks + have to deal white white assumptions that they " took their seat", that they are a token or have to deal with whites assuming they are criminals. Do not worry your pretty little head. They will have plenty to write about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who think colleges already have a workaround in place, I did not see many URMs at my kid's ivy. Just walk around. This is admittedly a sample size of 1 ivy. However, I've not been able to verify published URM demographics.

Well, you will see significantly fewer URM kids in the future. Free gravy train is over.

What I meant was when colleges claim that nothing will change, my suspicious mind says they will simply exaggerate the percentage of black students on their campus. That's their workaround.

As far as I know no colleges have claimed that. They all say they will continue to work to find a different path. But as AP article (link up-thread) reported, they have not identified a workaround. Many have tried, none found.

The one who claim nothing will change are some DCUM posters here. I think many of them are still in denial and, it appears, many don't read news.

I think OP's question is off. Ivies publicly claim they will continue to try to diversify. The reality is that there aren't that many black students to begin with. What they say publicly may not be what they do in private.

I don't doubt they will continue to try that. This decision just makes it more difficult. The fact you didn't see too many of URMs on campus doesn't necessary mean the school didn't try hard enough. It just means that, even w/ help of AA, there just aren't enough URM kids to select from.

Keep believing that, while Ling Ling gets rejected.

There are enough high stats URMs to get to the 5-6% average at elite colleges for Blacks, 7-8% for Hispanics, and 0 5% for Native Americans.

Define "high stats"?

Are you the same poster that wanted to find all Top 1% test takers and then draw red lines around them by race / ethnicity? As in, find the few thousand URMs with 1500-1600 SAT scores and then re-categorize them to see whether or not they can be further sorted?

Stand in the mirror and stare at yourself for a few minutes.

And maybe say "Candyman" a few times while you're at

? I'm not that PP. I'm a DP.

You stated: "There are enough high stats URMs to get to the 5-6% average at elite colleges for Blacks, 7-8% for Hispanics, and 0 5% for Native Americans."

I was asking how you define "high stats".

There are at least 10 elite colleges in this country. How many URM score 1500+? Are there enough of them to have a 10 to 15% representation in each of the top 10 elite colleges?

Just a nerd point here, Asian ability (as the SAT intends to measure it) is likely underrepresented by the SAT, because there are not sufficiently hard questions and so the distribution is approximately right censored. If the SAT included harder questions, this would add more dispersion in the right tail among the best students and the Asian average would be ridiculously high. This is really a remarkable level of achievement.

What an interesting concept. All they have to do is make SATs super easy so everyone, regardless of race, will get 800. What you don't want to do is introduce more difficult problems, that will widen the gap by far.

We want smartest and brightest in our top colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who think colleges already have a workaround in place, I did not see many URMs at my kid's ivy. Just walk around. This is admittedly a sample size of 1 ivy. However, I've not been able to verify published URM demographics.

Well, you will see significantly fewer URM kids in the future. Free gravy train is over.

What I meant was when colleges claim that nothing will change, my suspicious mind says they will simply exaggerate the percentage of black students on their campus. That's their workaround.

As far as I know no colleges have claimed that. They all say they will continue to work to find a different path. But as AP article (link up-thread) reported, they have not identified a workaround. Many have tried, none found.

The one who claim nothing will change are some DCUM posters here. I think many of them are still in denial and, it appears, many don't read news.

I think OP's question is off. Ivies publicly claim they will continue to try to diversify. The reality is that there aren't that many black students to begin with. What they say publicly may not be what they do in private.

I don't doubt they will continue to try that. This decision just makes it more difficult. The fact you didn't see too many of URMs on campus doesn't necessary mean the school didn't try hard enough. It just means that, even w/ help of AA, there just aren't enough URM kids to select from.

Keep believing that, while Ling Ling gets rejected.

There are enough high stats URMs to get to the 5-6% average at elite colleges for Blacks, 7-8% for Hispanics, and 0 5% for Native Americans.

Define "high stats"?

Are you the same poster that wanted to find all Top 1% test takers and then draw red lines around them by race / ethnicity? As in, find the few thousand URMs with 1500-1600 SAT scores and then re-categorize them to see whether or not they can be further sorted?

Stand in the mirror and stare at yourself for a few minutes.

And maybe say "Candyman" a few times while you're at

? I'm not that PP. I'm a DP.

You stated: "There are enough high stats URMs to get to the 5-6% average at elite colleges for Blacks, 7-8% for Hispanics, and 0 5% for Native Americans."

I was asking how you define "high stats".

There are at least 10 elite colleges in this country. How many URM score 1500+? Are there enough of them to have a 10 to 15% representation in each of the top 10 elite colleges?

This is so sad. They used bars (vs lines) but you still can't see it on the far right side. How sad is that.

because the numbers for the bars are so tiny it's not even worth measuring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who think colleges already have a workaround in place, I did not see many URMs at my kid's ivy. Just walk around. This is admittedly a sample size of 1 ivy. However, I've not been able to verify published URM demographics.

Well, you will see significantly fewer URM kids in the future. Free gravy train is over.

What I meant was when colleges claim that nothing will change, my suspicious mind says they will simply exaggerate the percentage of black students on their campus. That's their workaround.

As far as I know no colleges have claimed that. They all say they will continue to work to find a different path. But as AP article (link up-thread) reported, they have not identified a workaround. Many have tried, none found.

The one who claim nothing will change are some DCUM posters here. I think many of them are still in denial and, it appears, many don't read news.

I think OP's question is off. Ivies publicly claim they will continue to try to diversify. The reality is that there aren't that many black students to begin with. What they say publicly may not be what they do in private.

I don't doubt they will continue to try that. This decision just makes it more difficult. The fact you didn't see too many of URMs on campus doesn't necessary mean the school didn't try hard enough. It just means that, even w/ help of AA, there just aren't enough URM kids to select from.

Keep believing that, while Ling Ling gets rejected.

There are enough high stats URMs to get to the 5-6% average at elite colleges for Blacks, 7-8% for Hispanics, and 0 5% for Native Americans.

But Harvard is already 14-15% black acceptance rate. You mean they're going to go down?

Harvard is Harvard. 14-15% is above the 13% average. Great. It'll probably come down to 12-13%.

The 5-6% is the average for elite colleges- plural.

I'd be skeptical of the 14-15% black rate at Harvard. I've not been to its campus but I'd like to know if anyone here has, and whether they saw that many black students at Harvard.

Harvard has been lying about Jews and Asians. Why wouldn't they lie about blacks? When Karens are called out, the first thing they say is, "I have a black friend, a black nanny, a landscaper..."

Trust the 14-15% stat - but verify.

The "black" students who are admitted to Harvard and similar colleges from my kids' private (top DC school) are frequently 25% black. You wouldn't know they were black by looking at them. I'm sure this is the case from many other high schools as well.

Yes. You only know by looking at the red lined neighborhood they grew up in. You know them, right? Where the homes that would be valued at $1m in Arlington can be had for $300k because of where they are situated? Not familiar? The ones where equity is anemic on a good day? Where families that do everything the by the book for decades just don't enjoy the same benefits as others may? No? Not something with which you are familiar?

The master baiter is back!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are the uber-wealthy URMs, many of whom go to elite private schools in the DMV (we all know them), going to write essays talking about how disadvantaged they are? These are kids who have been getting into Ivies, etc., but I'm not sure they will be anymore. This is the group the USSC decision will impact most, not the first gen URMs or URMs at privates on financial aid.

Cops just see black...they don't ask their economic class before shooting them. UMC blacks experience racism like any other class of blacks + have to deal white white assumptions that they " took their seat", that they are a token or have to deal with whites assuming they are criminals. Do not worry your pretty little head. They will have plenty to write about.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/anti-asian-hate-crimes-increased-339-percent-nationwide-last-year-repo-rcna14282

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/21/asian-americans-hate-incidents-study

https://www.axios.com/2023/05/01/chinese-americans-report-racial-discrimination-asian-hate

Everyone has a story.

[Anonymous]

I'm looking at Brookings also. They reported around 2300 black students scored over 1500.

That is not many.

But hypothetically speaking if the t20 were to divvy them evenly up that would be more than 100 per freshman class.

All of this is just to say that these students exist and belong at t20 schools along with their academic peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking at Brookings also. They reported around 2300 black students scored over 1500.

That is not many.

But hypothetically speaking if the t20 were to divvy them evenly up that would be more than 100 per freshman class.

All of this is just to say that these students exist and belong at t20 schools along with their academic peers.

yeah, what about 100000 asian kids with 1500+ scores. something about them not inspiring enough? that's how it ended up with supreme court to begin with

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking at Brookings also. They reported around 2300 black students scored over 1500.

That is not many.

But hypothetically speaking if the t20 were to divvy them evenly up that would be more than 100 per freshman class.

All of this is just to say that these students exist and belong at t20 schools along with their academic peers.

Really? And yet Asians with 1600 get rejected? Perhaps they belong at t50 but maybe not t20

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking at Brookings also. They reported around 2300 black students scored over 1500.

That is not many.

But hypothetically speaking if the t20 were to divvy them evenly up that would be more than 100 per freshman class.

All of this is just to say that these students exist and belong at t20 schools along with their academic peers.

yeah, what about 100000 asian kids with 1500+ scores. something about them not inspiring enough? that's how it ended up with supreme court to begin with

They are all impressive and qualified. But this belligerent insistence that all URM students that get admitted to top schools are there because they got "extra points" from the admissions officers is insulting AF.

We know very well what it is like to have your successes dismissed and / or minimized and a lot of black families supported the case. Just please stop shi*ting on the handful of our kids that are admitted on equal merit.

Seriously - Please Stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking at Brookings also. They reported around 2300 black students scored over 1500.

That is not many.

But hypothetically speaking if the t20 were to divvy them evenly up that would be more than 100 per freshman class.

All of this is just to say that these students exist and belong at t20 schools along with their academic peers.

yeah, what about 100000 asian kids with 1500+ scores. something about them not inspiring enough? that's how it ended up with supreme court to begin with

They are all impressive and qualified. But this belligerent insistence that all URM students that get admitted to top schools are there because they got "extra points" from the admissions officers is insulting AF.

We know very well what it is like to have your successes dismissed and / or minimized and a lot of black families supported the case. Just please stop shi*ting on the handful of our kids that are admitted on equal merit.

Seriously - Please Stop.

Right and how do you think we got to this point? AA (per Justice Thomas)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking at Brookings also. They reported around 2300 black students scored over 1500.

That is not many.

But hypothetically speaking if the t20 were to divvy them evenly up that would be more than 100 per freshman class.

All of this is just to say that these students exist and belong at t20 schools along with their academic peers.

This may seem counterintuitive, but I'm wondering if high scoring URMs may see better results than they have in recent years if, in addition to submitting scores, they are also submitting the College Board National Recognition Program award which identifies their race, which never seemed to matter much. Test optional had made it more difficult for them to stand out via their scores, but some portion of the other URMs may remain unidentified by college admissions more generally, shrinking the pool of applicants who are known to be URM from admissions' viewpoint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So which is it?

URMs are at a school because of AA? or
URMs are at a school because they are high stats?

Because the argument has been that URMs are unfairly thought by some people to be at a particular school because of AA and the counter to that had been NO, they are high stats and just happen to also be URM.

If they’re high stats, then it won’t make a difference one way or another if race gives a leg up and they no longer have to deal with people saying they only got in because of their race.

But this thread seems to think URM rates will totally drop without AA. So they really do only get in because of their race? Their stats are not actually high enough to get in otherwise? Then those people that said they only got in because of their race are right?

It can both. It's not mutually exclusive.

Ignorant people think that affirmative action means unqualified. False.

As intended, affirmative action means make a concerted effort to seek qualified URMs and provide the opportunity (look up definition of "affirmative ").

The elite colleges want qualified URMs. The detractors want to define what "merit" is really just by looking at one metric: the SAT/ ACT score. It's not Johnny has a 1500 and URM has a 1400 so URM is "unqualified." That not how it works under holistic admissions. Standardized testing in America was based on a racist ideology. Those scores shouldn't be the definitive factor. Plus, ALDCs can have lower scores but they are not used as scapegoats. The URM is.

Some people don't get it.

Standardized testing is based on racist ideology = bad, but admissions decisions based on race = good??

Come on now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So which is it?

URMs are at a school because of AA? or
URMs are at a school because they are high stats?

Because the argument has been that URMs are unfairly thought by some people to be at a particular school because of AA and the counter to that had been NO, they are high stats and just happen to also be URM.

If they’re high stats, then it won’t make a difference one way or another if race gives a leg up and they no longer have to deal with people saying they only got in because of their race.

But this thread seems to think URM rates will totally drop without AA. So they really do only get in because of their race? Their stats are not actually high enough to get in otherwise? Then those people that said they only got in because of their race are right?

It can both. It's not mutually exclusive.

Ignorant people think that affirmative action means unqualified. False.

As intended, affirmative action means make a concerted effort to seek qualified URMs and provide the opportunity (look up definition of "affirmative ").

The elite colleges want qualified URMs. The detractors want to define what "merit" is really just by looking at one metric: the SAT/ ACT score. It's not Johnny has a 1500 and URM has a 1400 so URM is "unqualified." That not how it works under holistic admissions. Standardized testing in America was based on a racist ideology. Those scores shouldn't be the definitive factor. Plus, ALDCs can have lower scores but they are not used as scapegoats. The URM is.

Some people don't get it.

Standardized testing is based on racist ideology = bad, but admissions decisions based on race = good??

Come on now.

+1 said another way, "If the standardized test shows that URM score lower, then it must be racist. Only a metric, even if it's subjective, that bumps URM is not racist".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking at Brookings also. They reported around 2300 black students scored over 1500.

That is not many.

But hypothetically speaking if the t20 were to divvy them evenly up that would be more than 100 per freshman class.

All of this is just to say that these students exist and belong at t20 schools along with their academic peers.

yeah, what about 100000 asian kids with 1500+ scores. something about them not inspiring enough? that's how it ended up with supreme court to begin with

They are all impressive and qualified. But this belligerent insistence that all URM students that get admitted to top schools are there because they got "extra points" from the admissions officers is insulting AF.

We know very well what it is like to have your successes dismissed and / or minimized and a lot of black families supported the case. Just please stop shi*ting on the handful of our kids that are admitted on equal merit.

Seriously - Please Stop.

dp.. but, it's the truth. This is what affirmative action has lead to.

Getting rid of aa means that people will no longer question how that URM got into an elite college.