Number of Longfellow kids admitted to TJ in 2022

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

What the heck? You truly believe that a kid who "makes a memorable moment" or is a decent athlete is contributing something important to the school, but the kid who is winning a bunch of awards with the TJ Math team and making the school recognized on a national stage isn't? That is some grade A crazy mental gymnastics there.

The USAJMO thing is a red herring anyway. The number of 7th or 8th graders in the TJ catchment who qualify for JMO is miniscule. There's at best one kid every handful of years. It would be impossible for anyone to make any sweeping statements about whether kids like that contribute positively to TJ, as there are so very, very few. Unless something is majorly wrong with the kid's application, any kid who has the mathematical skills and motivation to qualify for JMO in middle school absolutely belongs at TJ. From Day 1 of 9th grade, that kid would be one of the top kids on the TJ math team, and thus they'd be guaranteed to make a positive contribution to TJ.

TJ doesn't need any help being recognized on a national stage. They need a lot of help being seen as a desirable destination for students in the Northern Virginia area among non-Asian communities.

We have nearly three times as many students in the catchment area as we had in 2000, but fewer applicants to TJ year over year than we did at that point. That's a problem and suggests strongly that the school isn't getting the students it should.

Many highly qualified kids don't want to attend TJ, simply because they and their parents understand that they'll get better college admissions if they're at the top of their base school than they get if they're middle of the pack at TJ. Some others don't want to attend because it's too much work. These aren't problems that need to be solved.

Or maybe they and their parents are just tired of the constant politics around TJ and know they won’t have to put up with the nonsense at their base schools. TJ has become something between a punching bag and a joke.

This argument doesn't make sense. There is likely a lot LESS politics at TJ than around your typical high school. The only politics is conversations and culture wars about TJ, click bait politics about TJ in the news (whether for or against changes, etc), but this is all irrelevant to any family with kids attending TJ. Most kids or families at TJ could care less about other people's politics about their school. If someone wants to apply and attend TJ, they do it for their own situation and personal reasons, not because they're being influenced by politics, which is just noise.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

What the heck? You truly believe that a kid who "makes a memorable moment" or is a decent athlete is contributing something important to the school, but the kid who is winning a bunch of awards with the TJ Math team and making the school recognized on a national stage isn't? That is some grade A crazy mental gymnastics there.

The USAJMO thing is a red herring anyway. The number of 7th or 8th graders in the TJ catchment who qualify for JMO is miniscule. There's at best one kid every handful of years. It would be impossible for anyone to make any sweeping statements about whether kids like that contribute positively to TJ, as there are so very, very few. Unless something is majorly wrong with the kid's application, any kid who has the mathematical skills and motivation to qualify for JMO in middle school absolutely belongs at TJ. From Day 1 of 9th grade, that kid would be one of the top kids on the TJ math team, and thus they'd be guaranteed to make a positive contribution to TJ.

TJ doesn't need any help being recognized on a national stage. They need a lot of help being seen as a desirable destination for students in the Northern Virginia area among non-Asian communities.

We have nearly three times as many students in the catchment area as we had in 2000, but fewer applicants to TJ year over year than we did at that point. That's a problem and suggests strongly that the school isn't getting the students it should.

Many highly qualified kids don't want to attend TJ, simply because they and their parents understand that they'll get better college admissions if they're at the top of their base school than they get if they're middle of the pack at TJ. Some others don't want to attend because it's too much work. These aren't problems that need to be solved.

Or maybe they and their parents are just tired of the constant politics around TJ and know they won’t have to put up with the nonsense at their base schools. TJ has become something between a punching bag and a joke.

This argument doesn't make sense. There is likely a lot LESS politics at TJ than around your typical high school. The only politics is conversations and culture wars about TJ, click bait politics about TJ in the news (whether for or against changes, etc), but this is all irrelevant to any family with kids attending TJ. Most kids or families at TJ could care less about other people's politics about their school. If someone wants to apply and attend TJ, they do it for their own situation and personal reasons, not because they're being influenced by politics, which is just noise.

Agree and also believe that college admission results for top performers at TJ are far better than they would be at any homeschool. It might have a negative impact on those who don't do as well. Any kid who can come out on top from TJ would do well at any university.

[Anonymous]

Example of TJ and McLean matriculation using numbers they've reported in their school newspapers in recent years (TJ first, McLean 2nd)... I'm ballparking "tiers" based on US News rankings and combining national, international, and SLACs:

Top-20ish tier (excl. UVA) - 16%, 5%
Top-4 publics (UVA, Cal, UCLA, Mich) - 20%, 11%
Next tier (rank ~20-50) - 31%, 13%
Next tier (rank ~50-120) - 22%, 23%
Everything else (including NVCC, GMU, etc.) - 9%, 49%

Obviously where kids matriculate to depends on a wide variety of factors, and this also ignores kids who didn't proceed directly to college from HS (and/or chose not to report it in their HS paper)... but in "ballpark" terms it appears for example the "middle 1/3" of the class at TJ is getting into and attending that rank ~20-50 tier colleges, whereas at McLean you need to be in the top ~15-30% of your class to access that same tier.

For top-20 schools, you need to be top 5% at McLean, but only top 16% at TJ... which one of those is the easier to achieve? (I'm guessing top 5% at McLean)... though again these numbers ignore various hooks and other factors that could play in. If you don't have one of those, maybe it is harder from McLean, maybe you'd actually need to be top 1-3% at McLean in the absence of those other considerations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Example of TJ and McLean matriculation using numbers they've reported in their school newspapers in recent years (TJ first, McLean 2nd)... I'm ballparking "tiers" based on US News rankings and combining national, international, and SLACs:

Top-20ish tier (excl. UVA) - 16%, 5%
Top-4 publics (UVA, Cal, UCLA, Mich) - 20%, 11%
Next tier (rank ~20-50) - 31%, 13%
Next tier (rank ~50-120) - 22%, 23%
Everything else (including NVCC, GMU, etc.) - 9%, 49%

Obviously where kids matriculate to depends on a wide variety of factors, and this also ignores kids who didn't proceed directly to college from HS (and/or chose not to report it in their HS paper)... but in "ballpark" terms it appears for example the "middle 1/3" of the class at TJ is getting into and attending that rank ~20-50 tier colleges, whereas at McLean you need to be in the top ~15-30% of your class to access that same tier.

For top-20 schools, you need to be top 5% at McLean, but only top 16% at TJ... which one of those is the easier to achieve? (I'm guessing top 5% at McLean)... though again these numbers ignore various hooks and other factors that could play in. If you don't have one of those, maybe it is harder from McLean, maybe you'd actually need to be top 1-3% at McLean in the absence of those other considerations.

If your goal is to go to a top-tier school, you need to be the best of the best, so it isn't about which is easier but which will better prepare you for that future. There are opportunities at TJ that just don't exist at McLean; however, if you just want to go to UVA, it's probably a fine choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Example of TJ and McLean matriculation using numbers they've reported in their school newspapers in recent years (TJ first, McLean 2nd)... I'm ballparking "tiers" based on US News rankings and combining national, international, and SLACs:

Top-20ish tier (excl. UVA) - 16%, 5%
Top-4 publics (UVA, Cal, UCLA, Mich) - 20%, 11%
Next tier (rank ~20-50) - 31%, 13%
Next tier (rank ~50-120) - 22%, 23%
Everything else (including NVCC, GMU, etc.) - 9%, 49%

Obviously where kids matriculate to depends on a wide variety of factors, and this also ignores kids who didn't proceed directly to college from HS (and/or chose not to report it in their HS paper)... but in "ballpark" terms it appears for example the "middle 1/3" of the class at TJ is getting into and attending that rank ~20-50 tier colleges, whereas at McLean you need to be in the top ~15-30% of your class to access that same tier.

For top-20 schools, you need to be top 5% at McLean, but only top 16% at TJ... which one of those is the easier to achieve? (I'm guessing top 5% at McLean)... though again these numbers ignore various hooks and other factors that could play in. If you don't have one of those, maybe it is harder from McLean, maybe you'd actually need to be top 1-3% at McLean in the absence of those other considerations.

If your goal is to go to a top-tier school, you need to be the best of the best, so it isn't about which is easier but which will better prepare you for that future. There are opportunities at TJ that just don't exist at McLean; however, if you just want to go to UVA, it's probably a fine choice.

Sorry, I should have linked it to the comment I was responding to, which was "parents understand that they'll get better college admissions if they're at the top of their base school than they get if they're middle of the pack at TJ". I was just trying to quantify it rather than using meaningless vague terms like "best of the best".

Yes, how prepared you are to succeed is an important, but separate, question. I'm just trying to interrogate the bolded assertion and look at what that actually materially means in terms of numbers. But yes, IF you think your student would be top-15% at base school or about mid-pack (middle 1/3) at TJ, then it looks like your college admissions prospects would be better at your base school. Agree that doesn't speak to how well prepared you are when you get there. It also depends on your subject area interests and myriad other things as to which path makes sense. But at least I'm providing some actual numbers for the specific question of 'comparative class rank's impact on admissions prospects' between schools.

[Anonymous]

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Also, Asians are not any less interested in attending than before;

I know Asian families that decided not to apply for TJ after the admissions changes, feeling it would be of lower quality and not worth the effort. These were Loudoun families.

Honestly I really struggle to understand why so many from Loudoun want to send their kids. That commute is just SO far. Especially when they have the Academy as an option now right in Loudoun.

They provide a bus, and it is not that early, around 7:30.
It is an issue if you are interested in afterschool activities beyond the 8th period clubs.

[Anonymous]

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Also, Asians are not any less interested in attending than before;

I know Asian families that decided not to apply for TJ after the admissions changes, feeling it would be of lower quality and not worth the effort. These were Loudoun families.

Honestly I really struggle to understand why so many from Loudoun want to send their kids. That commute is just SO far. Especially when they have the Academy as an option now right in Loudoun.

They provide a bus, and it is not that early, around 7:30.
It is an issue if you are interested in afterschool activities beyond the 8th period clubs.

The Loudoun families have traditonally been very focused on STEM and the TJ status. This may change over time.

[Anonymous]

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Also, Asians are not any less interested in attending than before;

I know Asian families that decided not to apply for TJ after the admissions changes, feeling it would be of lower quality and not worth the effort. These were Loudoun families.

Honestly I really struggle to understand why so many from Loudoun want to send their kids. That commute is just SO far. Especially when they have the Academy as an option now right in Loudoun.

Different classes. You can take calculus earlier if you attend your regular high school rather than AOS, for a kid who took algebra 2 in 8th grade. At TJ you can get calculus in 9th I think.
There is more at TJ for top students, if they maintain their high quality despite the reforms to admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Example of TJ and McLean matriculation using numbers they've reported in their school newspapers in recent years (TJ first, McLean 2nd)... I'm ballparking "tiers" based on US News rankings and combining national, international, and SLACs:

Top-20ish tier (excl. UVA) - 16%, 5%
Top-4 publics (UVA, Cal, UCLA, Mich) - 20%, 11%
Next tier (rank ~20-50) - 31%, 13%
Next tier (rank ~50-120) - 22%, 23%
Everything else (including NVCC, GMU, etc.) - 9%, 49%

Obviously where kids matriculate to depends on a wide variety of factors, and this also ignores kids who didn't proceed directly to college from HS (and/or chose not to report it in their HS paper)... but in "ballpark" terms it appears for example the "middle 1/3" of the class at TJ is getting into and attending that rank ~20-50 tier colleges, whereas at McLean you need to be in the top ~15-30% of your class to access that same tier.

For top-20 schools, you need to be top 5% at McLean, but only top 16% at TJ... which one of those is the easier to achieve? (I'm guessing top 5% at McLean)... though again these numbers ignore various hooks and other factors that could play in. If you don't have one of those, maybe it is harder from McLean, maybe you'd actually need to be top 1-3% at McLean in the absence of those other considerations.

The information voluntarily reported in school newspapers, especially in recent years, isn’t robust enough to allow for the conclusions you’re trying to draw.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

What the heck? You truly believe that a kid who "makes a memorable moment" or is a decent athlete is contributing something important to the school, but the kid who is winning a bunch of awards with the TJ Math team and making the school recognized on a national stage isn't? That is some grade A crazy mental gymnastics there.

The USAJMO thing is a red herring anyway. The number of 7th or 8th graders in the TJ catchment who qualify for JMO is miniscule. There's at best one kid every handful of years. It would be impossible for anyone to make any sweeping statements about whether kids like that contribute positively to TJ, as there are so very, very few. Unless something is majorly wrong with the kid's application, any kid who has the mathematical skills and motivation to qualify for JMO in middle school absolutely belongs at TJ. From Day 1 of 9th grade, that kid would be one of the top kids on the TJ math team, and thus they'd be guaranteed to make a positive contribution to TJ.

TJ doesn't need any help being recognized on a national stage. They need a lot of help being seen as a desirable destination for students in the Northern Virginia area among non-Asian communities.

We have nearly three times as many students in the catchment area as we had in 2000, but fewer applicants to TJ year over year than we did at that point. That's a problem and suggests strongly that the school isn't getting the students it should.

Many highly qualified kids don't want to attend TJ, simply because they and their parents understand that they'll get better college admissions if they're at the top of their base school than they get if they're middle of the pack at TJ. Some others don't want to attend because it's too much work. These aren't problems that need to be solved.

Or maybe they and their parents are just tired of the constant politics around TJ and know they won’t have to put up with the nonsense at their base schools. TJ has become something between a punching bag and a joke.

This argument doesn't make sense. There is likely a lot LESS politics at TJ than around your typical high school. The only politics is conversations and culture wars about TJ, click bait politics about TJ in the news (whether for or against changes, etc), but this is all irrelevant to any family with kids attending TJ. Most kids or families at TJ could care less about other people's politics about their school. If someone wants to apply and attend TJ, they do it for their own situation and personal reasons, not because they're being influenced by politics, which is just noise.

It makes plenty of sense, especially when you consider the declining interest and number of applications to this school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

What the heck? You truly believe that a kid who "makes a memorable moment" or is a decent athlete is contributing something important to the school, but the kid who is winning a bunch of awards with the TJ Math team and making the school recognized on a national stage isn't? That is some grade A crazy mental gymnastics there.

The USAJMO thing is a red herring anyway. The number of 7th or 8th graders in the TJ catchment who qualify for JMO is miniscule. There's at best one kid every handful of years. It would be impossible for anyone to make any sweeping statements about whether kids like that contribute positively to TJ, as there are so very, very few. Unless something is majorly wrong with the kid's application, any kid who has the mathematical skills and motivation to qualify for JMO in middle school absolutely belongs at TJ. From Day 1 of 9th grade, that kid would be one of the top kids on the TJ math team, and thus they'd be guaranteed to make a positive contribution to TJ.

TJ doesn't need any help being recognized on a national stage. They need a lot of help being seen as a desirable destination for students in the Northern Virginia area among non-Asian communities.

We have nearly three times as many students in the catchment area as we had in 2000, but fewer applicants to TJ year over year than we did at that point. That's a problem and suggests strongly that the school isn't getting the students it should.

Many highly qualified kids don't want to attend TJ, simply because they and their parents understand that they'll get better college admissions if they're at the top of their base school than they get if they're middle of the pack at TJ. Some others don't want to attend because it's too much work. These aren't problems that need to be solved.

Or maybe they and their parents are just tired of the constant politics around TJ and know they won’t have to put up with the nonsense at their base schools. TJ has become something between a punching bag and a joke.

This argument doesn't make sense. There is likely a lot LESS politics at TJ than around your typical high school. The only politics is conversations and culture wars about TJ, click bait politics about TJ in the news (whether for or against changes, etc), but this is all irrelevant to any family with kids attending TJ. Most kids or families at TJ could care less about other people's politics about their school. If someone wants to apply and attend TJ, they do it for their own situation and personal reasons, not because they're being influenced by politics, which is just noise.

It makes plenty of sense, especially when you consider the declining interest and number of applications to this school.

The declining interest in not at all because of politics. The declining interest is because TJ is deemed too competitive and not many kids are ready to devote 4 years of high school commuting to another school to be immersed in academics

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

What the heck? You truly believe that a kid who "makes a memorable moment" or is a decent athlete is contributing something important to the school, but the kid who is winning a bunch of awards with the TJ Math team and making the school recognized on a national stage isn't? That is some grade A crazy mental gymnastics there.

The USAJMO thing is a red herring anyway. The number of 7th or 8th graders in the TJ catchment who qualify for JMO is miniscule. There's at best one kid every handful of years. It would be impossible for anyone to make any sweeping statements about whether kids like that contribute positively to TJ, as there are so very, very few. Unless something is majorly wrong with the kid's application, any kid who has the mathematical skills and motivation to qualify for JMO in middle school absolutely belongs at TJ. From Day 1 of 9th grade, that kid would be one of the top kids on the TJ math team, and thus they'd be guaranteed to make a positive contribution to TJ.

TJ doesn't need any help being recognized on a national stage. They need a lot of help being seen as a desirable destination for students in the Northern Virginia area among non-Asian communities.

We have nearly three times as many students in the catchment area as we had in 2000, but fewer applicants to TJ year over year than we did at that point. That's a problem and suggests strongly that the school isn't getting the students it should.

Many highly qualified kids don't want to attend TJ, simply because they and their parents understand that they'll get better college admissions if they're at the top of their base school than they get if they're middle of the pack at TJ. Some others don't want to attend because it's too much work. These aren't problems that need to be solved.

Or maybe they and their parents are just tired of the constant politics around TJ and know they won’t have to put up with the nonsense at their base schools. TJ has become something between a punching bag and a joke.

This argument doesn't make sense. There is likely a lot LESS politics at TJ than around your typical high school. The only politics is conversations and culture wars about TJ, click bait politics about TJ in the news (whether for or against changes, etc), but this is all irrelevant to any family with kids attending TJ. Most kids or families at TJ could care less about other people's politics about their school. If someone wants to apply and attend TJ, they do it for their own situation and personal reasons, not because they're being influenced by politics, which is just noise.

It makes plenty of sense, especially when you consider the declining interest and number of applications to this school.

The declining interest in not at all because of politics. The declining interest is because TJ is deemed too competitive and not many kids are ready to devote 4 years of high school commuting to another school to be immersed in academics

My nephew took the test 5 or 6 years ago and turned it down. It wasn't because it was too competitive but he felt it had become a very toxic environment.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

What the heck? You truly believe that a kid who "makes a memorable moment" or is a decent athlete is contributing something important to the school, but the kid who is winning a bunch of awards with the TJ Math team and making the school recognized on a national stage isn't? That is some grade A crazy mental gymnastics there.

The USAJMO thing is a red herring anyway. The number of 7th or 8th graders in the TJ catchment who qualify for JMO is miniscule. There's at best one kid every handful of years. It would be impossible for anyone to make any sweeping statements about whether kids like that contribute positively to TJ, as there are so very, very few. Unless something is majorly wrong with the kid's application, any kid who has the mathematical skills and motivation to qualify for JMO in middle school absolutely belongs at TJ. From Day 1 of 9th grade, that kid would be one of the top kids on the TJ math team, and thus they'd be guaranteed to make a positive contribution to TJ.

TJ doesn't need any help being recognized on a national stage. They need a lot of help being seen as a desirable destination for students in the Northern Virginia area among non-Asian communities.

We have nearly three times as many students in the catchment area as we had in 2000, but fewer applicants to TJ year over year than we did at that point. That's a problem and suggests strongly that the school isn't getting the students it should.

This is 10000% spot on. Given TJ's national reputation, there should be very few people in the area who is qualified who decides not to apply, or who is offered admission and turns it down.

Perhaps applications are down because people have heard about how the rigor went up?

The rigor is no different from what it was 20 years ago. The level of advancement of the students is different, but that's the case across the area.

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Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

What the heck? You truly believe that a kid who "makes a memorable moment" or is a decent athlete is contributing something important to the school, but the kid who is winning a bunch of awards with the TJ Math team and making the school recognized on a national stage isn't? That is some grade A crazy mental gymnastics there.

The USAJMO thing is a red herring anyway. The number of 7th or 8th graders in the TJ catchment who qualify for JMO is miniscule. There's at best one kid every handful of years. It would be impossible for anyone to make any sweeping statements about whether kids like that contribute positively to TJ, as there are so very, very few. Unless something is majorly wrong with the kid's application, any kid who has the mathematical skills and motivation to qualify for JMO in middle school absolutely belongs at TJ. From Day 1 of 9th grade, that kid would be one of the top kids on the TJ math team, and thus they'd be guaranteed to make a positive contribution to TJ.

TJ doesn't need any help being recognized on a national stage. They need a lot of help being seen as a desirable destination for students in the Northern Virginia area among non-Asian communities.

We have nearly three times as many students in the catchment area as we had in 2000, but fewer applicants to TJ year over year than we did at that point. That's a problem and suggests strongly that the school isn't getting the students it should.

Many highly qualified kids don't want to attend TJ, simply because they and their parents understand that they'll get better college admissions if they're at the top of their base school than they get if they're middle of the pack at TJ. Some others don't want to attend because it's too much work. These aren't problems that need to be solved.

Or maybe they and their parents are just tired of the constant politics around TJ and know they won’t have to put up with the nonsense at their base schools. TJ has become something between a punching bag and a joke.

This argument doesn't make sense. There is likely a lot LESS politics at TJ than around your typical high school. The only politics is conversations and culture wars about TJ, click bait politics about TJ in the news (whether for or against changes, etc), but this is all irrelevant to any family with kids attending TJ. Most kids or families at TJ could care less about other people's politics about their school. If someone wants to apply and attend TJ, they do it for their own situation and personal reasons, not because they're being influenced by politics, which is just noise.

It makes plenty of sense, especially when you consider the declining interest and number of applications to this school.

The declining interest in not at all because of politics. The declining interest is because TJ is deemed too competitive and not many kids are ready to devote 4 years of high school commuting to another school to be immersed in academics

My nephew took the test 5 or 6 years ago and turned it down. It wasn't because it was too competitive but he felt it had become a very toxic environment.

So you're saying between the time of application and acceptance, he decided it was toxic? Is there any particular reason as to how he somehow came to that conclusion? Did he visit the school and classrooms and thought it was toxic? Did he talk to other TJ students and felt they were toxic? Did he think the application process was toxic? It doesn't sound very plausible.
The few students who turn down acceptance do it for personal reasons, i.e commute/friends at base school, etc., not because they somehow decided it was toxic. It would be hard for them to reasonably judge toxicity without actually attending and being in that environment for a period of time. (If on the other hand they went back to base school sophomore year, or midway through freshman year, then one can argue that they decided it was not for them).

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Anonymous wrote:DC is a rising 7th grader, will be in Algebra 1 and is generally a strong student. He will apply for TJ but if not accepted then he will be equally happy at McLean HS as well.

I am just trying to gauge realistic chances, I googled and it said 62 kids but then on this board someone mentioned 42, I would appreciate if someone can share the correct number. TIA!

Seems like Longfellow kids have some of the best odds of any school!

No... quite literally the exact opposite. If one takes a randomly chosen applicant from the FCPS pool, applying from Longfellow is one of the worst odds as there is a very, very small chance the applicant would fall in the top 1.5%. Take a randomly chosen applicant and send them from Poe MS, then there is a higher probability that they would fall into the top 1.5% of reserved seats.

The odds of getting into TJ from Longfellow were higher than from any other AAP center with a substantial number of TJ applicants, at least last year, as the prior post indicates.

There are some middle schools that only had a limited number of applicants to TJ in the Class of 2026. Schools with less than 20 applicants included Stone (11), Whitman (13), Herndon (15), Liberty (16), and Poe (17). So, depending on the number of kids at those schools who ended up admitted to TJ, either based on the 1.5% set aside or from the residual pool, the admissions rate from some of those schools likely was higher than the rate at Longfellow (26.2%). But then, if you don't get into TJ, you don't have McLean as your back-up option.

I have no idea how they determine top students at Longfellow or anywhere else. My kid is a freshman at mclean. He probably would have gotten into TJ on the old system (he just kills math tests - no idea why). He had all A’s in honors classes at Longfellow. I look at his friend group who also didn’t get into TJ and there are some strong science/math kids there. But the kids that did go to TJ also appear to be strong students - so no complaints on quality of the class. He’s having a great experience at McLean. Your kid will be fine either way.

Between all the grade inflation and application gaming, it's difficult for them to differentiate students beyond a point. Regardless, I'm sure there are many equally strong opportunities available at McLean. One of my kid's is applying next year. They're a total rockstar. Won all kinds of math awards at the state level even. Straight A's in the highest track etc, but I realize it's kind of a crap shoot. Still I'm not really clear whether they'd really be better off at TJ. Their homeschool Langlely is also great so either way I'm fine with however way it goes.

Just math awards does not get the kid to get into TJ. If you look at scoring rubric, 1/3 score is gpa, 1/3 is SPS answers, 1/3 is stem problem and writing the answer. If the kid can solve problem but is a poor writer, they won’t make it

Either way the suggestion that the new system introduces more uncertainty into the process is correct. The net result is that people are less inclined to believe the top candidates are being admitted to TJ and more inclined to shrug when their kid doesn’t get in. Maybe that’s what FCPS wanted.

If by uncertainty, you mean fairness then I agree.

I don't mean that. It's a more subjective process, borne of pandering for political gain, with a not-so-healthy dose of anti-Asian bias tossed into the mix.

Wasn’t it meant to address cheating on an entrance test?

You can’t be that naive.

I know! For years families were gaming admissions which culminated in some prep centers creating question banks so their customers would effectively have early access to the test. These affluent families would buy their way into TJ. So glad they put an end to the cheating with the improved selection criteria. It's also greatly reduced the toxicity at TJ and helped foster a collegial atmosphere.

No one was able to buy their way into TJ.

The "improved" selection criteria is a pork-barrel approach that guarantees seats to schools regardless of whether the students from those schools are the highest achieving in the region or possess the greatest STEM aptitude. It's diminished TJ's reputation and invited debates among current TJ freshmen and sophomores as to which students truly belong there, and which students simply got into because they were among the small number of applicants from schools that weren't AAP centers and generally don't elicit much interest in TJ.

Curious how the old process is guarantee students who got in are posses the greatest STEM aptitude and are the highest achieving student?

Nothing is guaranteed, but they looked at awards won and extracurriculars. Someone who made state MathCounts or USAJMO in 7th grade(about 10 in the entire country) would not be rejected like they have been the past few years.

Someone keeps bringing up USAJMO as though it should be a golden ticket into TJ. There is a lot more to being a strong contributor to a full-service elite high school than scoring well in a math competition.

+1, it's not a good idea to have any single accomplishment or background serve as a slam-dunk guarantee into TJ. If there is, you can be assured that striver families will move heaven and earth and sacrifice any amount of their child's well-being that is necessary to get them in. That's why I like the new admissions process; there is no golden path.

In vast majority of the cases, you have a very valid point that no single achievement should as a slam-dunk. I agree with that in general.

There are a few exceptions like USAJMO. You do need to understand what it entails - and no just reading up online about it does not tell you much, you need to actually experience something like that. It is like saying a two time MVP in NBA should not be an automatic choice for the next season. Dont go too deep into this analogy, just trying to make a point about the level of significance of USAJMO at a young age.

Someone who is or was even close to qualifying for USAJMO by 8th grade should be an automatic admit to TJ. We are talking about maybe 20 kids across the entire nation, forget Virginia. No you cannot just prep to it.

Serious question: why? What evidence does that one achievement give that a student will be a superior contributor to the overall environment?

What evidence is there that the existing "tests" for TJ will be a superior contributor?

What evidence do you have that such a student would not be a superior contributor to the overall environment? As I mentioned when you have no idea what it takes to get to that level, you end with questions like yours.

No one has really explained either what it means to make a superior contribution to the overall environment. It's a matter of opinion so you can just say whatever you want.

It's a matter of opinion because for each student, it is different. For some, it might be providing a unique perspective to classroom discussions. For others, it might be (in the case of TJ) the ability to give your friends a memorable moment through a performance at I-Nite. For still others, it might be genuinely caring about the experience that others are having within the academic environment, and working towards lifting others up instead of relentlessly comparing oneself to others. Or perhaps it's the ability contribute to an athletic team (like the 2008 boys soccer state champions) that raises the profile of the school.

TJ isn't an academy - it's a full service high school. If it wants to genuinely attract the best and brightest - something it hasn't done for decades given the decline in application numbers - then it needs to be a place where the best and brightest of all types and backgrounds WANT to go. Otherwise it will continue to top flawed ranking systems that overselect for test-taking ability while continuing to fail to produce much in terms of real STEM impact.

What the heck? You truly believe that a kid who "makes a memorable moment" or is a decent athlete is contributing something important to the school, but the kid who is winning a bunch of awards with the TJ Math team and making the school recognized on a national stage isn't? That is some grade A crazy mental gymnastics there.

The USAJMO thing is a red herring anyway. The number of 7th or 8th graders in the TJ catchment who qualify for JMO is miniscule. There's at best one kid every handful of years. It would be impossible for anyone to make any sweeping statements about whether kids like that contribute positively to TJ, as there are so very, very few. Unless something is majorly wrong with the kid's application, any kid who has the mathematical skills and motivation to qualify for JMO in middle school absolutely belongs at TJ. From Day 1 of 9th grade, that kid would be one of the top kids on the TJ math team, and thus they'd be guaranteed to make a positive contribution to TJ.

TJ doesn't need any help being recognized on a national stage. They need a lot of help being seen as a desirable destination for students in the Northern Virginia area among non-Asian communities.

We have nearly three times as many students in the catchment area as we had in 2000, but fewer applicants to TJ year over year than we did at that point. That's a problem and suggests strongly that the school isn't getting the students it should.

Your argument is not sound. Fewer applicants does not suggest anything of the kind, it in fact suggests the opposite; that students are not interested and do not want to apply. And if you want to know the truth as to WHY that is, it is because kids simply do not want to spend their high school hyper focused on academics. Yes, it's uncomfortable for me to say it and for us to accept it, but it is the truth: TJ has a reputation of being extremely challenging academically and few kids outside of the usual TJ demographic are prepared to sacrifice other aspects of their high school experience to go to TJ. The kids know this; they know it means a lot of really hard work and very little time to have fun and socialize, and they are just not interested. It's a choice, there's nothing wrong with it. Simply put, the academic vibe at TJ doesn't jive culturally with most demographics. Even within the Asian community there are kids who shouldn't go but are nevertheless coerced into it by their family.

There is nothing that needs to change at TJ, it is simply a place for those who want to fully devote their high school experience to academics. One doesn't need to engineer artificial situations to make it more desirable for those who don't want to go. Simply make the application process free and socialize it at every school so every student is aware that they can apply if they want to. If students are truly interested, they will come.

But see, it's NOT a place to fully devote your experience to academics. If it were, then TJ shouldn't have all of the tremendous extracurricular opportunities that it has. The problem that exists is because you have all of these students and parents who feel like that's what it's about, a narrative is created that just isn't the case and dissuades students who are interested in having a comprehensive high school experience from applying.

And that's by design! It benefits the parents who want to keep TJ more easily accessible to dissuade others from applying. It benefits the parents who prefer that TJ remain predominantly Indian to make it sound like TJ is this impossible grind that's unattractive to students who aren't a part of their community or don't subscribe to their idea of what constitutes a good student. You've seen on these boards - there is a very distinct animus that exists between certain elements of the Asian community against Black and Hispanic students. They prefer that their kids not be friends with those kids, and they won't let their kids date them either.