De facto "as is"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know what % 15k is of the price. In DC mostly it wouldn’t be worth walking away over if you live the house. But the house, as is, VA being a buyer beware state etc. give me pause.

Ultimately how much do you love the house?

I don't love the house. I am locked into a small geographical area. This house is all right.

well you have your answer. you can back out and try to find another house with an unkown price, or just go through with this deal. this is a sale, not a morality play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't understand what conclusion you're drawing about NoVa sales.


That I should not rely on inspection for normal minor fixes prior to the sale, but only as a way to back out of a deal if a big problem is found.

In the past, both I as the seller and other sellers would do minor fixes in the house based on inspection report.

"Big problem" is pretty subjective. A 25 year old furnace could last several more years for example. It could have been well maintained and wasteful to replace before its time.

I have no way to assess that as a buyer.

Things have a useful life. This furnace is a goner.
I would not want a seller to repair anything because they would not do it to my standard. I’d negotiate for the closing costs and if not there are so many better houses.

Old appliances last. We bought 12 years ago with hot water heater, furnace, and roof that were supposedly “goners.” They are all still working fine.

That is reassuring, thanks!

Sure, but they are leaking all sorts of crap. You’ll have to replace them to sell anyway so why not make your own family’s life better now?

We’re not replacing them to sell. They work fine and it is wasteful on many levels to get rid of appliances that work perfectly fine. If our buyer wants new ones that is their choice to be wasteful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't understand what conclusion you're drawing about NoVa sales.


That I should not rely on inspection for normal minor fixes prior to the sale, but only as a way to back out of a deal if a big problem is found.

In the past, both I as the seller and other sellers would do minor fixes in the house based on inspection report.

I think you are making a sweeping generalization based on this one experience. I know someone who bought recently in VA and the seller put on a whole new roof before the sale. So it really depends on who you are dealing with more than what state or area you are in. Just walk away if you don't like the deal.

If you read this thread, it becomes apparent that sellers do not have an expectation anymore to fix things based on the inspection. It is take it out leave it.

That is not what I expected and the price reflects my expectation. Now the house is overpriced.

It may be the case that the house is overpriced for the state it is in, but you came in hot calling it a “bait and switch” and de facto “as is” sale. You’re acting like some sort of victim that has been defrauded into paying for an inspection. None of those things are true.

You paid for an inspection to potentially save you from purchasing a house with more issues than you realized. That you now want to back out of the sale proves the value of the report. And the fact the sellers will not fix anything is not a conspiracy. Both parties have a right to negotiate, if they don’t want to do any repairs that is well within their rights in the contract and there is nothing bad faith about it. You have the right to pull out.

When we bought our older home we did a “walk and talk” inspection before making an offer. Basically we walked through he home with an inspector and instead of giving us a written report, he pointed out things like age of systems, things needing immediate replacement, etc. We then made our offer based on that knowledge. That might be a better option for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much of that $15k was attributed to each item in the estimate? The driveway and furnace are not reasonable asks, so if most of the estimate are for those two line items I can see why they might have felt it would be pointless to negotiate.

Chimney inspection alone is 15k.

This is kind of a self made problem actually. The sellers replaced a regular fireplace with a wood burning stove. Apparently it needs a longer chimney to take the hot sparks away from the house, not just a liner. So the way to address it cheap(er) is to seal the chimney and replace the wood burning stove with a gas fireplace. It is dangerous to use as is

Everything else is a cherry on top and can be adequately addressed for about 2-3k, assuming we leave the furnace be

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't understand what conclusion you're drawing about NoVa sales.


That I should not rely on inspection for normal minor fixes prior to the sale, but only as a way to back out of a deal if a big problem is found.

In the past, both I as the seller and other sellers would do minor fixes in the house based on inspection report.

I think you are making a sweeping generalization based on this one experience. I know someone who bought recently in VA and the seller put on a whole new roof before the sale. So it really depends on who you are dealing with more than what state or area you are in. Just walk away if you don't like the deal.

If you read this thread, it becomes apparent that sellers do not have an expectation anymore to fix things based on the inspection. It is take it out leave it.

That is not what I expected and the price reflects my expectation. Now the house is overpriced.

It may be the case that the house is overpriced for the state it is in, but you came in hot calling it a “bait and switch” and de facto “as is” sale. You’re acting like some sort of victim that has been defrauded into paying for an inspection. None of those things are true.

You paid for an inspection to potentially save you from purchasing a house with more issues than you realized. That you now want to back out of the sale proves the value of the report. And the fact the sellers will not fix anything is not a conspiracy. Both parties have a right to negotiate, if they don’t want to do any repairs that is well within their rights in the contract and there is nothing bad faith about it. You have the right to pull out.

When we bought our older home we did a “walk and talk” inspection before making an offer. Basically we walked through he home with an inspector and instead of giving us a written report, he pointed out things like age of systems, things needing immediate replacement, etc. We then made our offer based on that knowledge. That might be a better option for you.

Oh, definitely! That is the plan moving forward. Why bother with the costly official report is nothing financial is gained by it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dcum always bashes smart and demanding buyers. Mostly presumably because they know the horrors their houses hide come sale time. Don’t pay them any mind. Who cares? May the best negotiator win.

No worries, actually, the topic has been helpful.

This deal may not stand because I negotiated it anticipating typical concessions on the inspection, and my agent also expected the same. Now we will know better and negotiate more aggressively upfront.

OP, you negotiated in bad faith because you never intended to pay the purchase price that you offered. You're pulling the bait and switch, not the sellers.

Like other posters stated, you don't understand the terms and what the seller is or isn't obligated to do. You seem to be making up a lot of "rules" that don't have any legal basis. Your inspection contingency allows you to back out of the deal based on the inspection. You can try to negotiate, but it never obligated the sellers to pay for anything. You can still back out, which is all the inspection contingency ever guaranteed you. Stop being petty and vengeful with trying to stick it to the sellers with disclosable defects. They didn't try to conceal the age of the furnace or cracks in the driveway. You risked the cost of the inspection when you made an offer that you never intended to fulfill. You're dishonest and looking for ways to justify it.

This has not been my experience over the last 4 sales, but OK, good to know.

OP, there's no State that requires the seller to give the buyer money back for repairs. This has nothing to do with buying in VA and everything to do with the fact that you made an offer for a price that you never intended to pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much of that $15k was attributed to each item in the estimate? The driveway and furnace are not reasonable asks, so if most of the estimate are for those two line items I can see why they might have felt it would be pointless to negotiate.

Chimney inspection alone is 15k.

This is kind of a self made problem actually. The sellers replaced a regular fireplace with a wood burning stove. Apparently it needs a longer chimney to take the hot sparks away from the house, not just a liner. So the way to address it cheap(er) is to seal the chimney and replace the wood burning stove with a gas fireplace. It is dangerous to use as is

Everything else is a cherry on top and can be adequately addressed for about 2-3k, assuming we leave the furnace be

In most jurisdictions, you need a permit to install a wood burning stove. Did they get a permit for the conversion? If so, it is probably up to code because they would need to demonstrate code compliance in the permitting plans and during the final inspection. Being up to code is not necessarily the same thing as ideal/heightened safety standards, but that doesn’t make it unsafe. If the conversion was unpermitted, you may have more leverage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't understand what conclusion you're drawing about NoVa sales.


That I should not rely on inspection for normal minor fixes prior to the sale, but only as a way to back out of a deal if a big problem is found.

In the past, both I as the seller and other sellers would do minor fixes in the house based on inspection report.

I think you are making a sweeping generalization based on this one experience. I know someone who bought recently in VA and the seller put on a whole new roof before the sale. So it really depends on who you are dealing with more than what state or area you are in. Just walk away if you don't like the deal.

If you read this thread, it becomes apparent that sellers do not have an expectation anymore to fix things based on the inspection. It is take it out leave it.

That is not what I expected and the price reflects my expectation. Now the house is overpriced.

It may be the case that the house is overpriced for the state it is in, but you came in hot calling it a “bait and switch” and de facto “as is” sale. You’re acting like some sort of victim that has been defrauded into paying for an inspection. None of those things are true.

You paid for an inspection to potentially save you from purchasing a house with more issues than you realized. That you now want to back out of the sale proves the value of the report. And the fact the sellers will not fix anything is not a conspiracy. Both parties have a right to negotiate, if they don’t want to do any repairs that is well within their rights in the contract and there is nothing bad faith about it. You have the right to pull out.

When we bought our older home we did a “walk and talk” inspection before making an offer. Basically we walked through he home with an inspector and instead of giving us a written report, he pointed out things like age of systems, things needing immediate replacement, etc. We then made our offer based on that knowledge. That might be a better option for you.

Oh, definitely! That is the plan moving forward. Why bother with the costly official report is nothing financial is gained by it.

When we bought our house, we got an information-only inspection to create a list of items we wanted to address after we purchased it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does your agent say?

I am happy to write an update once we know how things will work out.

She is surprised also.

LOL! She is not surprised. She is coddling you.

Hard to be sure, but not terribly important because I plan to take a break from looking for a home if this deal falls through. Thanks for the insight however.

She’s definitely coddling you, and it’s because you way overestimate your own expertise and you’re resistant/hostile to new information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much of that $15k was attributed to each item in the estimate? The driveway and furnace are not reasonable asks, so if most of the estimate are for those two line items I can see why they might have felt it would be pointless to negotiate.

Chimney inspection alone is 15k.

This is kind of a self made problem actually. The sellers replaced a regular fireplace with a wood burning stove. Apparently it needs a longer chimney to take the hot sparks away from the house, not just a liner. So the way to address it cheap(er) is to seal the chimney and replace the wood burning stove with a gas fireplace. It is dangerous to use as is

Everything else is a cherry on top and can be adequately addressed for about 2-3k, assuming we leave the furnace be

Why do you need to convert it to gas? It’s probably less expensive to remove the stove insert and convert it back to a standard wood burning fireplace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much of that $15k was attributed to each item in the estimate? The driveway and furnace are not reasonable asks, so if most of the estimate are for those two line items I can see why they might have felt it would be pointless to negotiate.

Chimney inspection alone is 15k.

This is kind of a self made problem actually. The sellers replaced a regular fireplace with a wood burning stove. Apparently it needs a longer chimney to take the hot sparks away from the house, not just a liner. So the way to address it cheap(er) is to seal the chimney and replace the wood burning stove with a gas fireplace. It is dangerous to use as is

Everything else is a cherry on top and can be adequately addressed for about 2-3k, assuming we leave the furnace be

In most jurisdictions, you need a permit to install a wood burning stove. Did they get a permit for the conversion? If so, it is probably up to code because they would need to demonstrate code compliance in the permitting plans and during the final inspection. Being up to code is not necessarily the same thing as ideal/heightened safety standards, but that doesn’t make it unsafe. If the conversion was unpermitted, you may have more leverage.

No permit as far as I know, but what leverage could I have other than walking away? Tnx

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much of that $15k was attributed to each item in the estimate? The driveway and furnace are not reasonable asks, so if most of the estimate are for those two line items I can see why they might have felt it would be pointless to negotiate.

Chimney inspection alone is 15k.

This is kind of a self made problem actually. The sellers replaced a regular fireplace with a wood burning stove. Apparently it needs a longer chimney to take the hot sparks away from the house, not just a liner. So the way to address it cheap(er) is to seal the chimney and replace the wood burning stove with a gas fireplace. It is dangerous to use as is

Everything else is a cherry on top and can be adequately addressed for about 2-3k, assuming we leave the furnace be

Why do you need to convert it to gas? It’s probably less expensive to remove the stove insert and convert it back to a standard wood burning fireplace.

Because according to the inspection the chimney is still not up to code for that, and it will come back to me during resale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much of that $15k was attributed to each item in the estimate? The driveway and furnace are not reasonable asks, so if most of the estimate are for those two line items I can see why they might have felt it would be pointless to negotiate.

Chimney inspection alone is 15k.

This is kind of a self made problem actually. The sellers replaced a regular fireplace with a wood burning stove. Apparently it needs a longer chimney to take the hot sparks away from the house, not just a liner. So the way to address it cheap(er) is to seal the chimney and replace the wood burning stove with a gas fireplace. It is dangerous to use as is

Everything else is a cherry on top and can be adequately addressed for about 2-3k, assuming we leave the furnace be

Why do you need to convert it to gas? It’s probably less expensive to remove the stove insert and convert it back to a standard wood burning fireplace.

Because according to the inspection the chimney is still not up to code for that, and it will come back to me during resale.

In what respect is it not up to code for a wood burning fireplace?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much of that $15k was attributed to each item in the estimate? The driveway and furnace are not reasonable asks, so if most of the estimate are for those two line items I can see why they might have felt it would be pointless to negotiate.

Chimney inspection alone is 15k.

This is kind of a self made problem actually. The sellers replaced a regular fireplace with a wood burning stove. Apparently it needs a longer chimney to take the hot sparks away from the house, not just a liner. So the way to address it cheap(er) is to seal the chimney and replace the wood burning stove with a gas fireplace. It is dangerous to use as is

Everything else is a cherry on top and can be adequately addressed for about 2-3k, assuming we leave the furnace be

Why do you need to convert it to gas? It’s probably less expensive to remove the stove insert and convert it back to a standard wood burning fireplace.

Because according to the inspection the chimney is still not up to code for that, and it will come back to me during resale.

In what respect is it not up to code for a wood burning fireplace?

.

I believe it needs a liner and be a little longer to be safely used with a wood burning fireplace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much of that $15k was attributed to each item in the estimate? The driveway and furnace are not reasonable asks, so if most of the estimate are for those two line items I can see why they might have felt it would be pointless to negotiate.

Chimney inspection alone is 15k.

This is kind of a self made problem actually. The sellers replaced a regular fireplace with a wood burning stove. Apparently it needs a longer chimney to take the hot sparks away from the house, not just a liner. So the way to address it cheap(er) is to seal the chimney and replace the wood burning stove with a gas fireplace. It is dangerous to use as is

Everything else is a cherry on top and can be adequately addressed for about 2-3k, assuming we leave the furnace be

Why do you need to convert it to gas? It’s probably less expensive to remove the stove insert and convert it back to a standard wood burning fireplace.

Because according to the inspection the chimney is still not up to code for that, and it will come back to me during resale.

In what respect is it not up to code for a wood burning fireplace?

(Fwiw, I strongly prefer a wood burning fireplace)