If you are of European descent…

[Anonymous]

No- I am a more recent immigrant. I already have an Irish passport and could get an Italian one. Two grandparents were born in Europe and one was first generation. I know very well why they came to the US. It was certainly not on a whim. I have been back to their hometown‘s and still have family in those countries. While it might be nice to live there for a year or two after retirement, I would definitely not move my family there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can’t we just ignore the colonizer poster? People just like to post inflammatory comments to take topics off track.

NP.

The "colonizer" poster is simply parroting what she was indoctrinated into at a U.S. liberal arts college - likely as part of a women's studies or Black studies major.

Essentially, these institutions instruct impressionable kids to "view the world through the lens of racial / gender / economic oppression," where anyone they meet must be placed into either the basket of oppressor, or the oppressed.

OP has been open about feeling her white guilt living in the USA (it is one of her motives for seeking to leave the USA).

Where do you suppose OP got that idea / guilt ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe OP could move to a state that has a lot of people with German and Norwegian ancestors. Minnesota maybe?

This is actually not a terrible idea -- there are parts of Minnesota where they've retained a lot of cultural traditions from "the old country" and there is a sense of community around them. You could meet people with similar familial backgrounds and maybe find things in common between your family's history and theirs. All without having to try and get a visa to live abroad and learn a new language. And if you have kids, you could raise them with more connection to your ancestry, but also as Americans since that is what you are.

This is the first concrete suggestion in this thread that I think actually addresses OP's problem in a practical way instead of yelling at her for feeling as she does. OP, think on this! I understand why you feel as you do and think it's valid, and this might be one way to address it.

Actually, I don't think this is a good idea. Trying to connect with people because of some common ancestry way back and because they share skin colour seems like a futile exercise. I don't see how this would create a sense of belonging.

So what do you suggest? This makes more sense to me than trying to move to Germany when you don't speak German, but it's obvious OP is seeking some kind of connection to a place and people. Her family is already scattered through the US, why not try moving to an area where she might find some people who are a similar amount removed from the immigrant generation and whose families might have similar stories. I don't think the issue is about shared skin color -- presumably OP meets white people all the time, but she doesn't feel like she belongs with them. This might offer some belonging. A community with deep German roots will likely also have German cultural events, be more likely to teach German in the local schools or at a community center, have a history of German-inspired arts, etc.

I know it seems really basic, but I've known many immigrants who are just one or two generations removed who have found community in immigrant enclaves with lots of families with shared heritage. I think there might be something to this.

Given her comment about her ancestors emigrated on a whim, it's doubtful OP has any familiarity with their history and culture. If she's feeling a lack of belonging, she's better off getting more involved in her local community whether through religion, volunteering, or hobbies. This is a really transient place where it's hard to make strong personal connections, so I empathize with OP, I just think she's built a fantasy that doesn't reflect reality and won't actually solve her problem.

I think OP was probably being glib about that -- I doubt her family emigrated on "a whim". I think it's just that her family doesn't seem to have an immigration story that can be easily conveyed. Maybe it's been lost, maybe her ancestors lied to their kids about why they immigrated, who knows.

Being around other people whose families immigrated from the same place around the same time could enable OP to adopt an immigration story, or to get some sense as to why her ancestors immigrated when they did. That could help give OP a sense of belonging in the US, to feel like she is part of a larger story of immigration, part of a migration pattern. Right now it sounds like she feels her family is very isolated in their immigration story -- coming over on their own and then never really settling anywhere in particular. That sounds really hard, frankly. Imagine if you didn't really know who your people were or how you wound up being born or living where you grew up? Whatever the story is, I think most people have some sense of that and OP doesn't. I get why she's searching.

And you said it yourself -- the DMV is a very transient play where it's hard to make personal connections. You suggest religion, hobbies, volunteering, which is what people always suggest, but I've done all those things in the DC area and it has not led to concrete community here because, as you point out, the area is so transient. People leave your church, your neighborhood, your volunteer org, they stop showing up to the same classes etc. It's been hard even to find more stable communities via kid's school because people here move so much.

But people in Minnesota or that part of the country stay put a bit more, which is why there are actually pretty stable communities of German and Norweigian descendants there. I think OP could maybe tap into that, if she doesn't mind the cold (which she must not if she's contemplated moving to Norway!).

[Anonymous]

You need to go to church

[Anonymous]

No, my great grandparents were forced out of Lithuania based on religion. I don't think I'd be particularly welcome there today - even now only .1% of the population is Jewish. I don't speak the language and even my grandparents didn't speak the language or identify as being Lithuanian so there is no cultural connection at all.

Other than the occasional anti-semitic comment I don't feel unwelcome in the US.

[Anonymous]

Irish often came here as indentured servants

[Anonymous]

Both of my parents are Hungarian. Father immigrated in 1956 and mother born here. I was born here (US) as well, so not a mutt. Since my only choice is Hungary, and I feel like Orban is much too Trump like I’m staying here.

[Anonymous]

Both DH and I have European-born parents and have passports for their respective countries. DH has no interest in going to his dad's home country, while I dream about living in my parent's home country all the time. I think the quality of life is better in that country (in Southern Europe)--but, as an American, I find the standard of living lower than here, especially as it relates to housing. If I were single and retired and didn't have a child here, I would live in Europe for 4-6 months of the year. Life is short.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe OP could move to a state that has a lot of people with German and Norwegian ancestors. Minnesota maybe?

This is actually not a terrible idea -- there are parts of Minnesota where they've retained a lot of cultural traditions from "the old country" and there is a sense of community around them. You could meet people with similar familial backgrounds and maybe find things in common between your family's history and theirs. All without having to try and get a visa to live abroad and learn a new language. And if you have kids, you could raise them with more connection to your ancestry, but also as Americans since that is what you are.

This is the first concrete suggestion in this thread that I think actually addresses OP's problem in a practical way instead of yelling at her for feeling as she does. OP, think on this! I understand why you feel as you do and think it's valid, and this might be one way to address it.

Actually, I don't think this is a good idea. Trying to connect with people because of some common ancestry way back and because they share skin colour seems like a futile exercise. I don't see how this would create a sense of belonging.

So what do you suggest? This makes more sense to me than trying to move to Germany when you don't speak German, but it's obvious OP is seeking some kind of connection to a place and people. Her family is already scattered through the US, why not try moving to an area where she might find some people who are a similar amount removed from the immigrant generation and whose families might have similar stories. I don't think the issue is about shared skin color -- presumably OP meets white people all the time, but she doesn't feel like she belongs with them. This might offer some belonging. A community with deep German roots will likely also have German cultural events, be more likely to teach German in the local schools or at a community center, have a history of German-inspired arts, etc.

I know it seems really basic, but I've known many immigrants who are just one or two generations removed who have found community in immigrant enclaves with lots of families with shared heritage. I think there might be something to this.

Given her comment about her ancestors emigrated on a whim, it's doubtful OP has any familiarity with their history and culture. If she's feeling a lack of belonging, she's better off getting more involved in her local community whether through religion, volunteering, or hobbies. This is a really transient place where it's hard to make strong personal connections, so I empathize with OP, I just think she's built a fantasy that doesn't reflect reality and won't actually solve her problem.

I think OP was probably being glib about that -- I doubt her family emigrated on "a whim". I think it's just that her family doesn't seem to have an immigration story that can be easily conveyed. Maybe it's been lost, maybe her ancestors lied to their kids about why they immigrated, who knows.

Being around other people whose families immigrated from the same place around the same time could enable OP to adopt an immigration story, or to get some sense as to why her ancestors immigrated when they did. That could help give OP a sense of belonging in the US, to feel like she is part of a larger story of immigration, part of a migration pattern. Right now it sounds like she feels her family is very isolated in their immigration story -- coming over on their own and then never really settling anywhere in particular. That sounds really hard, frankly. Imagine if you didn't really know who your people were or how you wound up being born or living where you grew up? Whatever the story is, I think most people have some sense of that and OP doesn't. I get why she's searching.

And you said it yourself -- the DMV is a very transient play where it's hard to make personal connections. You suggest religion, hobbies, volunteering, which is what people always suggest, but I've done all those things in the DC area and it has not led to concrete community here because, as you point out, the area is so transient. People leave your church, your neighborhood, your volunteer org, they stop showing up to the same classes etc. It's been hard even to find more stable communities via kid's school because people here move so much.

But people in Minnesota or that part of the country stay put a bit more, which is why there are actually pretty stable communities of German and Norweigian descendants there. I think OP could maybe tap into that, if she doesn't mind the cold (which she must not if she's contemplated moving to Norway!).

I agree that her ancestors wouldn't have emigrated "on a whim", but those were her words. I also agree that maybe she should find out more about her own family's history to help in understanding her own identity, but that was no where in what she wrote. She seems to entirely dismiss self-discovery and assume that she will find belonging somewhere in Europe simply by virtue of her skin color and ancestry. I would charitably characterize her dream as naive. As they say, it's not the Iranian yogurt.

[Anonymous]

OP, it might be helpful for you if you could spend some time finding out more about your grandparents and great grandparents. There are a lot of free sources for genealogy research and that could help you discover more about who they were, where they came from, and what led them to leave their countries of origin and come here.

I couldn’t have known most of my immigrant ancestors because they were mostly a few generations back. Some died fairly young, before their grandchildren were born, so little chance for passing down family stories. But, through genealogical research, I’ve been able to learn a lot about where they came from and why they wanted to emigrate.

And the reason was pretty much the same for them all. They were grindingly, shockingly poor. They were from at least three different European countries but the conditions were similar in all of them: poverty with no real opportunity to rise out of that state. One branch of the family lived in an area that was so well known for its poverty that a famous novelist of the time used it as the locale for his extremely poor characters.

So, I’m pretty sure I know why they came here- they were just hoping for a better life, as cliched as that sounds. And they were still very poor here for a number of generations, but being poor here was tons better for them than being poor back in the “old country.”

So, OP, don’t assume that your ancestors came here on a whim, or for better weather. It’s more likely that they were escaping from poverty in a place that offered little to no opportunity to better oneself. Truly, that’s how most Americans with immigrant ancestors came to be here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, i feel a yearning to return to my ancestors’ land. It’s not guilt but I definitely don’t feel great or proud about being descended from colonizers. I wish my family had maintained Irish citizenship through the generations.

Just move out of Montgomery County. That would be a good start.

DP. Why are you so hostile to people expressing a very normal and understandable feeling? Are you the same person posting angrily in this thread or are there multiple?

I don't understand the hostility here. People are saying "I don't feel like I belong, I wonder if I would belong more in my ancestral home." Even if you disagree with them, which is a totally valid perspective, I don't understand why it's making people so hostile. It is a vulnerable, very human desire, to admit you feel adrift.

Because that's not just what she said, it's the summary. She's feeling like that because "there’s no getting around the fact that my presence as a white person in North America is the result of colonization, slavery, and racism and "Sometimes I think it would be better for everyone, including me, if I returned with my family to my ancestral roots" She feels guilt, and thinks it woudl be better for *everyone* (or all white people, at least) to go back to where they came from. That's neither normal no understandable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe OP could move to a state that has a lot of people with German and Norwegian ancestors. Minnesota maybe?

This is actually not a terrible idea -- there are parts of Minnesota where they've retained a lot of cultural traditions from "the old country" and there is a sense of community around them. You could meet people with similar familial backgrounds and maybe find things in common between your family's history and theirs. All without having to try and get a visa to live abroad and learn a new language. And if you have kids, you could raise them with more connection to your ancestry, but also as Americans since that is what you are.

This is the first concrete suggestion in this thread that I think actually addresses OP's problem in a practical way instead of yelling at her for feeling as she does. OP, think on this! I understand why you feel as you do and think it's valid, and this might be one way to address it.

Actually, I don't think this is a good idea. Trying to connect with people because of some common ancestry way back and because they share skin colour seems like a futile exercise. I don't see how this would create a sense of belonging.

So what do you suggest? This makes more sense to me than trying to move to Germany when you don't speak German, but it's obvious OP is seeking some kind of connection to a place and people. Her family is already scattered through the US, why not try moving to an area where she might find some people who are a similar amount removed from the immigrant generation and whose families might have similar stories. I don't think the issue is about shared skin color -- presumably OP meets white people all the time, but she doesn't feel like she belongs with them. This might offer some belonging. A community with deep German roots will likely also have German cultural events, be more likely to teach German in the local schools or at a community center, have a history of German-inspired arts, etc.

I know it seems really basic, but I've known many immigrants who are just one or two generations removed who have found community in immigrant enclaves with lots of families with shared heritage. I think there might be something to this.

I agree it makes absolutely no sense to move to Germany. OP has no real connection with Germany and that is grasping at straws. I know many Americans say they are Irish, Swedish or German, etc but these are historic connections that are usually so far back that they are not much more than an 'interesting' fact.

The real problem is OP has developed their own narrative around legitimacy that doesn't include people like them. They said "there’s no getting around the fact that my presence as a white person in North America is the result of colonization, slavery, and racism". This shows they have allowed their perspective to be distorted by being overly immersed in certain media and a particular narrative that they support but have taken to an extreme. In doing so, they have excluded all other narratives as legitimate. The fact they think the US 'belongs' to the descendants of slaves more than them demonstrates this. America belongs to the child of immigrants who arrived ten years ago just as much as somebody whose family arrived on the Mayflower. Unfortunately, it also belongs just as much to a gun-toting MAGA supporter as someone who spends their entire life fighting for civil liberties.

I think OP needs to address this perspective. Firstly, they need some balance and a better understanding of history outside their chosen narrative. History is comprised of oppressors and the oppressed. Often, at different points in time, they were one and the same. We admire the Romans but their industrial production was based on slaves. The Egyptians built amazing pyramids but relied on slaves. Sure the English were recent oppressors but go back in history and you will see the native Britons were invaded and oppressed by the Romans, then invaded and colonised by the Anglo-Saxons from northern Europe, and then by the Vikings. Did you know it is estimated over a million white Europeans were trafficked in the slave markets of North Africa? The Moors ruled southern Spain and enslaved Christian Spaniards for hundreds of years. Within North America, some tribes massacred others and took their lands. There are ugly aspects to history everywhere in the world. Obviously, here and now, the inequities and systemic racism that have kept black Americans from enjoying the same freedoms and opportunities as others need to be addressed. But OP doesn't need to take on the emotional baggage of what other white people did in the past to do that.

I agree with others that OP could try to learn more about their own ancestry. It might help them to understand how they ended up here and how they fit into the America of today. There was widespread political unrest, riots, revolutions, poverty and starvation throughout Europe in the mid-1800s. In all likelihood, their ancestors were poor Germany farm workers who were trying to escape poverty, unrest and maybe being conscripted into the Kaiser's army.

[Anonymous]

A lot of Europeans don’t like Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:… do you ever think you should move to Europe to “go back where you came from”?

I have started to feel this way. I feel like no matter how much I work to be inclusive and tolerant, there’s no getting around the fact that my presence as a white person in North America is the result of colonization, slavery, and racism. All things I fundamentally oppose.

Sometimes I think it would be better for everyone, including me, if I returned with my family to my ancestral roots (Germany or Norway). Not just because I feel the US really belongs to Native people and the descendants of enslaved people who built the country, but because I wonder if living where my family lived for thousands of years before immigrating to the US in the early 20th century would make me feel like I belonged more.

I just feel like I’m not supposed to be here. It wasn’t my choice to come but maybe it could be my choice to leave.

Does anyone else feel this way?

Absolutely not. I am a first generation immigrant and I never felt like this applies to me or my children. I still have foreign passport and can go back if I won't to, but I love it here! My family on mother's side come from slaves too, so I understand the hardship.

OP, can you just go to your homecountry for extended vacation to see if you belong there?

[Anonymous]

I‘m an immigrant from Europe and 99.9% of Americans with a European background have no clue about the country they „came from.“
You‘re American.