Rant about Deal and their religious field trip

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’ll tell you this much, OP: all this does is teach your kid to hate. Not good.

OP here. Honest question. Why does it teach my kids to hate?

Your unwillingness even to tolerate a dress code so that your kid can learn about a mosque strictly as an academic subject sends a message of intolerance, inflexibility, and hate.

Her kid can learn about the academic subject in class. I hope you stretched before that massive reach you just made.

Not a massive reach. She’s basically saying she refuses to let her kid enter a mosque. It’s hate, pure and simple.

OP here. Nah, I don't hate muslims, catholics, jews, buddhists, mormons, scientologists, or any other person following any religion. And I wouldn't dare visiting a temple of any denomination and not follow their rules. That's why I have no interest in visiting any religious site. What I don't like is a public school "forcing" religious rules on my kids. And if you don't think the school is forcing them, I'd argue that the school is in a position of power. You might argue they might opt out but kids that age usually want to do whatever the other kids their age do.

NP. OP, it does appear to me that you’re acting out of intolerance and, frankly, selfishness. This world needs more love, more understanding, and more support for other cultures and belief systems. Requesting that your child follow the norms of another culture is part of showing respect for that culture. The school isn’t “forcing them.” As you already stated, you can opt out. This seems like an unusual fight to pick. Instead of arguing that the school is somehow using its power to abuse you, what if you reframe your thinking to seeing this as an opportunity for education and an opportunity to show respect to another culture?

How is tolerating the subjugation of girls and women an acceptable form of “respect”? If anything, as a child I would learn to hate religion and be intolerant of such ignorance and misogyny. But evidently it’s completely cool to DCUM that the girls will be forced to cover up and exhibit their virtue while the boys are not required.

As a man, when I visit a synagogue as a visitor or tourist, I manage to cover my head without ever being subjugated or hating Judaism. When I visit a mosque as a visitor or tourist, I wear loose fitting clothing and long pants and sleeves without being subjugated or hating Islam.

There is a difference between choosing to go as a tourist and going as part of a school sponsored trip. If the dress code is different for boys and girls and distributed in writing, OP should complain to the principal and DCPS and state that their child will both attend and adhere to the dress code for boys and that you will be happy to file a civil rights complaint if the school has a problem with it.

You sound like book banner. Don't stick your head in the sand and pretend there are no viewpoints in the world that don't comply with your views.

Islam, Christianity, Judaism and mamy other religions exist in the world whether you have knowledge of them or not. Don't be ignorant. Bring educated does not mean you agree with every viewpoint or artwork or religion or author, etc. That you study.

Public schools don't get to apply discriminatory dress codes or requirements. If the school feels head coverings are necessary for girls, they can either mandate them for boys too or find another field trip.

They are not supposed to teach their pupils about discrimination?

The school does not " feel head coverings are necessary". They feel that education about major world religions is necessary. And part of that education is that these religions treat men and women differently.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll tell you this much, OP: all this does is teach your kid to hate. Not good.

OP here. Honest question. Why does it teach my kids to hate?

Your unwillingness even to tolerate a dress code so that your kid can learn about a mosque strictly as an academic subject sends a message of intolerance, inflexibility, and hate.

Her kid can learn about the academic subject in class. I hope you stretched before that massive reach you just made.

Not a massive reach. She’s basically saying she refuses to let her kid enter a mosque. It’s hate, pure and simple.

OP here. Nah, I don't hate muslims, catholics, jews, buddhists, mormons, scientologists, or any other person following any religion. And I wouldn't dare visiting a temple of any denomination and not follow their rules. That's why I have no interest in visiting any religious site. What I don't like is a public school "forcing" religious rules on my kids. And if you don't think the school is forcing them, I'd argue that the school is in a position of power. You might argue they might opt out but kids that age usually want to do whatever the other kids their age do.

NP. OP, it does appear to me that you’re acting out of intolerance and, frankly, selfishness. This world needs more love, more understanding, and more support for other cultures and belief systems. Requesting that your child follow the norms of another culture is part of showing respect for that culture. The school isn’t “forcing them.” As you already stated, you can opt out. This seems like an unusual fight to pick. Instead of arguing that the school is somehow using its power to abuse you, what if you reframe your thinking to seeing this as an opportunity for education and an opportunity to show respect to another culture?

How is tolerating the subjugation of girls and women an acceptable form of “respect”? If anything, as a child I would learn to hate religion and be intolerant of such ignorance and misogyny. But evidently it’s completely cool to DCUM that the girls will be forced to cover up and exhibit their virtue while the boys are not required.

As a man, when I visit a synagogue as a visitor or tourist, I manage to cover my head without ever being subjugated or hating Judaism. When I visit a mosque as a visitor or tourist, I wear loose fitting clothing and long pants and sleeves without being subjugated or hating Islam.

There is a difference between choosing to go as a tourist and going as part of a school sponsored trip. If the dress code is different for boys and girls and distributed in writing, OP should complain to the principal and DCPS and state that their child will both attend and adhere to the dress code for boys and that you will be happy to file a civil rights complaint if the school has a problem with it.

You sound like book banner. Don't stick your head in the sand and pretend there are no viewpoints in the world that don't comply with your views.

Islam, Christianity, Judaism and mamy other religions exist in the world whether you have knowledge of them or not. Don't be ignorant. Bring educated does not mean you agree with every viewpoint or artwork or religion or author, etc. That you study.

Public schools don't get to apply discriminatory dress codes or requirements. If the school feels head coverings are necessary for girls, they can either mandate them for boys too or find another field trip.

They are not supposed to teach their pupils about discrimination?

The school does not " feel head coverings are necessary". They feel that education about major world religions is necessary. And part of that education is that these religions treat men and women differently.

It does not mean the school condones it, it means they are not pretending it does not exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll tell you this much, OP: all this does is teach your kid to hate. Not good.

OP here. Honest question. Why does it teach my kids to hate?

Your unwillingness even to tolerate a dress code so that your kid can learn about a mosque strictly as an academic subject sends a message of intolerance, inflexibility, and hate.

Her kid can learn about the academic subject in class. I hope you stretched before that massive reach you just made.

Not a massive reach. She’s basically saying she refuses to let her kid enter a mosque. It’s hate, pure and simple.

OP here. Nah, I don't hate muslims, catholics, jews, buddhists, mormons, scientologists, or any other person following any religion. And I wouldn't dare visiting a temple of any denomination and not follow their rules. That's why I have no interest in visiting any religious site. What I don't like is a public school "forcing" religious rules on my kids. And if you don't think the school is forcing them, I'd argue that the school is in a position of power. You might argue they might opt out but kids that age usually want to do whatever the other kids their age do.

NP. OP, it does appear to me that you’re acting out of intolerance and, frankly, selfishness. This world needs more love, more understanding, and more support for other cultures and belief systems. Requesting that your child follow the norms of another culture is part of showing respect for that culture. The school isn’t “forcing them.” As you already stated, you can opt out. This seems like an unusual fight to pick. Instead of arguing that the school is somehow using its power to abuse you, what if you reframe your thinking to seeing this as an opportunity for education and an opportunity to show respect to another culture?

How is tolerating the subjugation of girls and women an acceptable form of “respect”? If anything, as a child I would learn to hate religion and be intolerant of such ignorance and misogyny. But evidently it’s completely cool to DCUM that the girls will be forced to cover up and exhibit their virtue while the boys are not required.

As a man, when I visit a synagogue as a visitor or tourist, I manage to cover my head without ever being subjugated or hating Judaism. When I visit a mosque as a visitor or tourist, I wear loose fitting clothing and long pants and sleeves without being subjugated or hating Islam.

There is a difference between choosing to go as a tourist and going as part of a school sponsored trip. If the dress code is different for boys and girls and distributed in writing, OP should complain to the principal and DCPS and state that their child will both attend and adhere to the dress code for boys and that you will be happy to file a civil rights complaint if the school has a problem with it.

You sound like book banner. Don't stick your head in the sand and pretend there are no viewpoints in the world that don't comply with your views.

Islam, Christianity, Judaism and mamy other religions exist in the world whether you have knowledge of them or not. Don't be ignorant. Bring educated does not mean you agree with every viewpoint or artwork or religion or author, etc. That you study.

Public schools don't get to apply discriminatory dress codes or requirements. If the school feels head coverings are necessary for girls, they can either mandate them for boys too or find another field trip.

Another parent here. I don’t want my child deprived of educational opportunities because you feel a temporary head covering is some horrible infringement on your rights. I want my child to learn through exposure to other cultures, countries, etc. You are welcome to chose ignorance and hate for your family, but the purpose of education is to explore and grow through new knowledge.

Perhaps homeschooling is an option for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll tell you this much, OP: all this does is teach your kid to hate. Not good.

OP here. Honest question. Why does it teach my kids to hate?

Your unwillingness even to tolerate a dress code so that your kid can learn about a mosque strictly as an academic subject sends a message of intolerance, inflexibility, and hate.

Her kid can learn about the academic subject in class. I hope you stretched before that massive reach you just made.

Not a massive reach. She’s basically saying she refuses to let her kid enter a mosque. It’s hate, pure and simple.

OP here. Nah, I don't hate muslims, catholics, jews, buddhists, mormons, scientologists, or any other person following any religion. And I wouldn't dare visiting a temple of any denomination and not follow their rules. That's why I have no interest in visiting any religious site. What I don't like is a public school "forcing" religious rules on my kids. And if you don't think the school is forcing them, I'd argue that the school is in a position of power. You might argue they might opt out but kids that age usually want to do whatever the other kids their age do.

NP. OP, it does appear to me that you’re acting out of intolerance and, frankly, selfishness. This world needs more love, more understanding, and more support for other cultures and belief systems. Requesting that your child follow the norms of another culture is part of showing respect for that culture. The school isn’t “forcing them.” As you already stated, you can opt out. This seems like an unusual fight to pick. Instead of arguing that the school is somehow using its power to abuse you, what if you reframe your thinking to seeing this as an opportunity for education and an opportunity to show respect to another culture?

How is tolerating the subjugation of girls and women an acceptable form of “respect”? If anything, as a child I would learn to hate religion and be intolerant of such ignorance and misogyny. But evidently it’s completely cool to DCUM that the girls will be forced to cover up and exhibit their virtue while the boys are not required.

As a man, when I visit a synagogue as a visitor or tourist, I manage to cover my head without ever being subjugated or hating Judaism. When I visit a mosque as a visitor or tourist, I wear loose fitting clothing and long pants and sleeves without being subjugated or hating Islam.

There is a difference between choosing to go as a tourist and going as part of a school sponsored trip. If the dress code is different for boys and girls and distributed in writing, OP should complain to the principal and DCPS and state that their child will both attend and adhere to the dress code for boys and that you will be happy to file a civil rights complaint if the school has a problem with it.

You sound like book banner. Don't stick your head in the sand and pretend there are no viewpoints in the world that don't comply with your views.

Islam, Christianity, Judaism and mamy other religions exist in the world whether you have knowledge of them or not. Don't be ignorant. Bring educated does not mean you agree with every viewpoint or artwork or religion or author, etc. That you study.

Public schools don't get to apply discriminatory dress codes or requirements. If the school feels head coverings are necessary for girls, they can either mandate them for boys too or find another field trip.

DP. Field trips to mosques make the news periodically and they all require girls to cover their heads. Can you point to any successful lawsuits against that or is your sense of what schools "get to" do based purely on what you think they ought to do, rather than the law?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll tell you this much, OP: all this does is teach your kid to hate. Not good.

OP here. Honest question. Why does it teach my kids to hate?

Your unwillingness even to tolerate a dress code so that your kid can learn about a mosque strictly as an academic subject sends a message of intolerance, inflexibility, and hate.

Her kid can learn about the academic subject in class. I hope you stretched before that massive reach you just made.

Not a massive reach. She’s basically saying she refuses to let her kid enter a mosque. It’s hate, pure and simple.

OP here. Nah, I don't hate muslims, catholics, jews, buddhists, mormons, scientologists, or any other person following any religion. And I wouldn't dare visiting a temple of any denomination and not follow their rules. That's why I have no interest in visiting any religious site. What I don't like is a public school "forcing" religious rules on my kids. And if you don't think the school is forcing them, I'd argue that the school is in a position of power. You might argue they might opt out but kids that age usually want to do whatever the other kids their age do.

NP. OP, it does appear to me that you’re acting out of intolerance and, frankly, selfishness. This world needs more love, more understanding, and more support for other cultures and belief systems. Requesting that your child follow the norms of another culture is part of showing respect for that culture. The school isn’t “forcing them.” As you already stated, you can opt out. This seems like an unusual fight to pick. Instead of arguing that the school is somehow using its power to abuse you, what if you reframe your thinking to seeing this as an opportunity for education and an opportunity to show respect to another culture?

How is tolerating the subjugation of girls and women an acceptable form of “respect”? If anything, as a child I would learn to hate religion and be intolerant of such ignorance and misogyny. But evidently it’s completely cool to DCUM that the girls will be forced to cover up and exhibit their virtue while the boys are not required.

As a man, when I visit a synagogue as a visitor or tourist, I manage to cover my head without ever being subjugated or hating Judaism. When I visit a mosque as a visitor or tourist, I wear loose fitting clothing and long pants and sleeves without being subjugated or hating Islam.

There is a difference between choosing to go as a tourist and going as part of a school sponsored trip. If the dress code is different for boys and girls and distributed in writing, OP should complain to the principal and DCPS and state that their child will both attend and adhere to the dress code for boys and that you will be happy to file a civil rights complaint if the school has a problem with it.

You sound like book banner. Don't stick your head in the sand and pretend there are no viewpoints in the world that don't comply with your views.

Islam, Christianity, Judaism and mamy other religions exist in the world whether you have knowledge of them or not. Don't be ignorant. Bring educated does not mean you agree with every viewpoint or artwork or religion or author, etc. That you study.

Public schools don't get to apply discriminatory dress codes or requirements. If the school feels head coverings are necessary for girls, they can either mandate them for boys too or find another field trip.

DP. Field trips to mosques make the news periodically and they all require girls to cover their heads. Can you point to any successful lawsuits against that or is your sense of what schools "get to" do based purely on what you think they ought to do, rather than the law?

I guess the ACLU doesn't know what they're talking about? You should request that they update their site

"Dress codes can’t be explicitly discriminatory.
That means that while dress codes may specify types of attire that are acceptable, these requirements may not differ based on students’ gender, race, religion, or other protected characteristics. Under federal laws protecting against discrimination in education – including Title IX, Title VI, and the U.S. Constitution’s equal protection guarantee, public schools cannot enforce a dress code based on gender- or race-based stereotypes about appropriate dress or appearance. For example, a public school cannot require girls, and only girls, to wear skirts or dresses, or require boys, but not girls, to wear short hair. This also goes for special events and occasions – such as prom, graduation, or yearbook photos. For example, while a public school can require “formal attire” to be worn at special events, it may not require that girls, and only girls, wear gowns – or that boys, and only boys, wear a suit."

https://www.aclu.org/news/womens-rights/4-things-public-schools-can-and-cant-do-dress-codes#:~:text=Under%20federal%20laws%20protecting%20against,about%20appropriate%20dress%20or%20appearance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll tell you this much, OP: all this does is teach your kid to hate. Not good.

OP here. Honest question. Why does it teach my kids to hate?

Your unwillingness even to tolerate a dress code so that your kid can learn about a mosque strictly as an academic subject sends a message of intolerance, inflexibility, and hate.

Her kid can learn about the academic subject in class. I hope you stretched before that massive reach you just made.

Not a massive reach. She’s basically saying she refuses to let her kid enter a mosque. It’s hate, pure and simple.

OP here. Nah, I don't hate muslims, catholics, jews, buddhists, mormons, scientologists, or any other person following any religion. And I wouldn't dare visiting a temple of any denomination and not follow their rules. That's why I have no interest in visiting any religious site. What I don't like is a public school "forcing" religious rules on my kids. And if you don't think the school is forcing them, I'd argue that the school is in a position of power. You might argue they might opt out but kids that age usually want to do whatever the other kids their age do.

NP. OP, it does appear to me that you’re acting out of intolerance and, frankly, selfishness. This world needs more love, more understanding, and more support for other cultures and belief systems. Requesting that your child follow the norms of another culture is part of showing respect for that culture. The school isn’t “forcing them.” As you already stated, you can opt out. This seems like an unusual fight to pick. Instead of arguing that the school is somehow using its power to abuse you, what if you reframe your thinking to seeing this as an opportunity for education and an opportunity to show respect to another culture?

How is tolerating the subjugation of girls and women an acceptable form of “respect”? If anything, as a child I would learn to hate religion and be intolerant of such ignorance and misogyny. But evidently it’s completely cool to DCUM that the girls will be forced to cover up and exhibit their virtue while the boys are not required.

As a man, when I visit a synagogue as a visitor or tourist, I manage to cover my head without ever being subjugated or hating Judaism. When I visit a mosque as a visitor or tourist, I wear loose fitting clothing and long pants and sleeves without being subjugated or hating Islam.

There is a difference between choosing to go as a tourist and going as part of a school sponsored trip. If the dress code is different for boys and girls and distributed in writing, OP should complain to the principal and DCPS and state that their child will both attend and adhere to the dress code for boys and that you will be happy to file a civil rights complaint if the school has a problem with it.

You sound like book banner. Don't stick your head in the sand and pretend there are no viewpoints in the world that don't comply with your views.

Islam, Christianity, Judaism and mamy other religions exist in the world whether you have knowledge of them or not. Don't be ignorant. Bring educated does not mean you agree with every viewpoint or artwork or religion or author, etc. That you study.

Public schools don't get to apply discriminatory dress codes or requirements. If the school feels head coverings are necessary for girls, they can either mandate them for boys too or find another field trip.

DP. Field trips to mosques make the news periodically and they all require girls to cover their heads. Can you point to any successful lawsuits against that or is your sense of what schools "get to" do based purely on what you think they ought to do, rather than the law?

I guess the ACLU doesn't know what they're talking about? You should request that they update their site

"Dress codes can’t be explicitly discriminatory.
That means that while dress codes may specify types of attire that are acceptable, these requirements may not differ based on students’ gender, race, religion, or other protected characteristics. Under federal laws protecting against discrimination in education – including Title IX, Title VI, and the U.S. Constitution’s equal protection guarantee, public schools cannot enforce a dress code based on gender- or race-based stereotypes about appropriate dress or appearance. For example, a public school cannot require girls, and only girls, to wear skirts or dresses, or require boys, but not girls, to wear short hair. This also goes for special events and occasions – such as prom, graduation, or yearbook photos. For example, while a public school can require “formal attire” to be worn at special events, it may not require that girls, and only girls, wear gowns – or that boys, and only boys, wear a suit."

https://www.aclu.org/news/womens-rights/4-things-public-schools-can-and-cant-do-dress-codes#:~:text=Under%20federal%20laws%20protecting%20against,about%20appropriate%20dress%20or%20appearance.

That's a dress code in a school, not the dress code for an optional field trip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you know Catholic women who were mistreated in Catholic schools and refuse to participate in Catholic traditions even though they still consider themselves Catholic. The same exists in many religions

Yes. But if I were teaching someone about catholicism, I would think it was important to have them visit a church. That would just be an introduction.

You could spend a lifetime studying catholicism even if you object to all of it. But you would be a better and more informed scholar if you at least visited some churches.[/quote

The same logic applies to more extreme forms of Islam. Would it be appropriate if Deal found a mosque that required a full burka? What if they visited a orthodox church that had ritual cleanliness requirement to enter?

You clearly have the advantage of knowing about burkas and ritual cleansing. You were not born with that information..... someone explained or taught or filled you in.

I want my kids to have the same advantage of knowing about those things and a million other topics. But suit yourself and forbid your kid from going on the trip if you prefer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a wonderful field trip! I am thrilled to hear the school is exposing kids to world religions, both because it is important to world history (for better and worse) and because it can only help to increase tolerance and respect as they grow up.

If the school were asking you to do something against your family's values, then I would understand you not allowing your daughter to participate. But is covering your head really against your family's values? Does your kid never wear a hat?

My Muslim mother refuses to cover her head because of her experience with gender-based violence. Understanding what hair and coverings can mean to some people is also a part of tolerance.

And it would make perfect sense for your mother to opt out of this field trip, because it (very understandably!) is against her values
That's not the case for this 6th grader. Learning both why some people choose to wear headcoverings in sacred spaces and why others don't is a wonderful learning experience.

[Anonymous]

When people know nothing they know they are ignorant. When people learn something they should know they are still mostly ignorant

[Anonymous]

My SIL moved to Wisconsin and the teacher did not believe that her grade school son was Jewish when he explained that he did celebrate Hanukkah. She patted him on the head and told him he was mistaken.

There is tremendous need for more knowledge and education about different religions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll tell you this much, OP: all this does is teach your kid to hate. Not good.

OP here. Honest question. Why does it teach my kids to hate?

Your unwillingness even to tolerate a dress code so that your kid can learn about a mosque strictly as an academic subject sends a message of intolerance, inflexibility, and hate.

Her kid can learn about the academic subject in class. I hope you stretched before that massive reach you just made.

Not a massive reach. She’s basically saying she refuses to let her kid enter a mosque. It’s hate, pure and simple.

OP here. Nah, I don't hate muslims, catholics, jews, buddhists, mormons, scientologists, or any other person following any religion. And I wouldn't dare visiting a temple of any denomination and not follow their rules. That's why I have no interest in visiting any religious site. What I don't like is a public school "forcing" religious rules on my kids. And if you don't think the school is forcing them, I'd argue that the school is in a position of power. You might argue they might opt out but kids that age usually want to do whatever the other kids their age do.

NP. OP, it does appear to me that you’re acting out of intolerance and, frankly, selfishness. This world needs more love, more understanding, and more support for other cultures and belief systems. Requesting that your child follow the norms of another culture is part of showing respect for that culture. The school isn’t “forcing them.” As you already stated, you can opt out. This seems like an unusual fight to pick. Instead of arguing that the school is somehow using its power to abuse you, what if you reframe your thinking to seeing this as an opportunity for education and an opportunity to show respect to another culture?

How is tolerating the subjugation of girls and women an acceptable form of “respect”? If anything, as a child I would learn to hate religion and be intolerant of such ignorance and misogyny. But evidently it’s completely cool to DCUM that the girls will be forced to cover up and exhibit their virtue while the boys are not required.

As a man, when I visit a synagogue as a visitor or tourist, I manage to cover my head without ever being subjugated or hating Judaism. When I visit a mosque as a visitor or tourist, I wear loose fitting clothing and long pants and sleeves without being subjugated or hating Islam.

There is a difference between choosing to go as a tourist and going as part of a school sponsored trip. If the dress code is different for boys and girls and distributed in writing, OP should complain to the principal and DCPS and state that their child will both attend and adhere to the dress code for boys and that you will be happy to file a civil rights complaint if the school has a problem with it.

You sound like book banner. Don't stick your head in the sand and pretend there are no viewpoints in the world that don't comply with your views.

Islam, Christianity, Judaism and mamy other religions exist in the world whether you have knowledge of them or not. Don't be ignorant. Bring educated does not mean you agree with every viewpoint or artwork or religion or author, etc. That you study.

Public schools don't get to apply discriminatory dress codes or requirements. If the school feels head coverings are necessary for girls, they can either mandate them for boys too or find another field trip.

DP. Field trips to mosques make the news periodically and they all require girls to cover their heads. Can you point to any successful lawsuits against that or is your sense of what schools "get to" do based purely on what you think they ought to do, rather than the law?

I guess the ACLU doesn't know what they're talking about? You should request that they update their site

"Dress codes can’t be explicitly discriminatory.
That means that while dress codes may specify types of attire that are acceptable, these requirements may not differ based on students’ gender, race, religion, or other protected characteristics. Under federal laws protecting against discrimination in education – including Title IX, Title VI, and the U.S. Constitution’s equal protection guarantee, public schools cannot enforce a dress code based on gender- or race-based stereotypes about appropriate dress or appearance. For example, a public school cannot require girls, and only girls, to wear skirts or dresses, or require boys, but not girls, to wear short hair. This also goes for special events and occasions – such as prom, graduation, or yearbook photos. For example, while a public school can require “formal attire” to be worn at special events, it may not require that girls, and only girls, wear gowns – or that boys, and only boys, wear a suit."

https://www.aclu.org/news/womens-rights/4-things-public-schools-can-and-cant-do-dress-codes#:~:text=Under%20federal%20laws%20protecting%20against,about%20appropriate%20dress%20or%20appearance.

That's a dress code in a school, not the dress code for an optional field trip.

It's a school-sponsored activity. Just like prom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Muslim mother refuses to cover her head. She also doesn’t go to mosque, although she does fast for Ramadan like a Christmas and Easter Christian. I hope the school doesn’t teach Islam as though it’s a singular religion

You’re mother isn’t a practicing Muslim.

No but also many Christians aren’t practicing Christians. You can’t teach, “this is what people believe” as though it’s representative. No less than a foreign child being taken to a baptist church and being taught it’s a flavor of America

Give the teachers some credit. They are perfectly capable of explaining some basic Christian or Muslim or Jewish beliefs with the caveat that there are many different sects within a religion and they don't all have the same belief systems or traditions. And that individual people don't necessarily subscribe to every teaching.

+1. This is a silly objection. As I've gotten older, I've realized that the instruction about religion as a middle schooler were generalized, and that the diversity of human religious experience is a lot more complicated than I was taught. You know what else turns out to be more complicated than I learned in middle school? Everything. It's not a reason not to teach kids about religious beliefs. Most of what I learned was broadly correct.

[Anonymous]

NO ONE ON THIS FIELD TRIP IS BEING REQUIRED TO COVER THEIR HEADS!

I don't know where OP got this idea. She is worked up over nothing. I confirmed with my current Deal 6th grader and my older child who did the trip a few years ago.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m also an atheist. You should let your 6th grader decide. She is not being excluded, you are the one excluding her. So you should have the wherewithal to explain why you have decided she is not allowed to do this, and what is the super important principle that is at stake.

OP here. Of course I have explained to them my rationale; and, honestly, I'm still making up my mind around this issue. And I know I'm excluding her because of an idea the school had. My rant was because I feel icky about the school's idea of this field trip.

Idk OP this is some weirdly tinged intolerance feigned as "atheism". I'm an atheist teacher whose students participate in the Embassy Adoption program. We've gone to a Buddhist temple and worn the appropriate clothing. We've had Islamic States and worn their clothes, we've had Israel and worn their clothes. Exploring cultures is not something to feel icky about. It's a learning experience not religious immersion

Please tell me you aren't actually a teacher. "Israel" is not a religion you dolt. You are confusing Israeli with Jewish. You also make an offensive false equivalence between Islamic state theocracies and a Israel, which is a democracy.

Choosing to miss my point to insult me. Very tolerant

The fact that you don't understand the difference between a nationality and religion and that you mistake democracy for theocracy is the part that is offensive. The fact that you can't acknowledge or admit your ignorance is astounding.

[Anonymous]

As a male, I have been required to wear certain clothing at a mosque. Loose paints were provided for men and head scarves for women if they hadn't worn one. Was I being discriminated against because I couldn't wear short pants or was my partner because she couldn't enter without a head covering? We didn't feel that way and came away amazed at what we saw and learned inside.