GPA: honors vs. regular courses

[Anonymous]

My DD takes honors courses that are weighted either .5 or 1.0, but she gets mostly B's, therefore her GPA is in the high 3 range.
Do you think colleges would be more impressed with that, or having a solid 4.0 in regular courses? Anyone with any experience with this and the application process?

[Anonymous]

I've always heard that students should take the most rigorous courses available to them. Of course, you might want to verify that approach with a college counselor. It may also vary depending on which college is reviewing the application.

[Anonymous]

Our headmistress always said...they want you to get the best grades in the best available classes. Kids don't have to take all APs, and it certainly depends on the school -- so if the kid can get some As in some honors courses...that would generally be better than Bs in APs. Is the child in public or private?

[Anonymous]

Solid 4.0 in regular courses. Better to be the big fish in the small pond than the small fish in the big pond. The former has a better shot at the big leagues whereas the latter can't stand out enough from her peers to get that initial shot.

[Anonymous]

Hmmm...we heard that colleges like to see you stretch. At least that was the advice dd got for senior year. I had been wondering whether she should take two AP courses senior year (which is what she wanted to do) but when I heard that I thought she should go for it.

But that's just what I heard...once... I'm no expert on these things.

[Anonymous]

Don't many colleges recalculate the GPA by removing all weights for advanced courses? If so, doesn't that count against a student who stretches? Seems like it only works in your favor if you think you can get an A in a weighted course.

[Anonymous]

Isn't it more important that she learn than that she get into the best school?

She'll do far better in college if she takes the more advanced courses in high school. That will set her up for more success thereafter. That's what really matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it more important that she learn than that she get into the best school?

She'll do far better in college if she takes the more advanced courses in high school. That will set her up for more success thereafter. That's what really matters.

I agree with this. Plus, IIRC the admissions process at my fancy pants school, the one page summary of every applicant took space to list what honors classes the applicant took.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She'll do far better in college if she takes the more advanced courses in high school.

Not necessarily true. It's more important that she learns what she learns well. Specifically, she'll do best in college if she reads closely, writes in a clear and organized manner, and has good number sense (e.g. recognizes when an answer doesn't make sense/can't be right).

If advanced courses cover more material at a faster pace but don't improve her reading and writing (e.g. because she's got to skim to keep up and/or because the instructor focuses on in class tests rather than essay writing), then you would *not* be setting her up for success in college if you pushed her to take them.

Skills matter more than content knowledge (much of which will be retaught or taught better in college) when it comes to college performance.

Re admissions, consider a split the difference approach -- honors in the courses she's strongest in (or in courses where there's a real educational benefit), regular courses in the subjects that aren't her thing. What highly selective colleges don't want to see is a kid who always ducks challenging work to maximize GPA. They expect kids to have strengths and weaknesses. And if it looks like passion or aptitude is what governed her course selection (e.g. math is always fast-tracked; English is not) rather than cherry-picking the easiest courses or teachers, then she'll be fine.

That said, if DC isn't aiming for the Ivies or their equivalents (probably unrealistic with Bs in honors courses anyway), and especially if she's looking at state schools (where they don't have the same resources for admissions that the most affluent privates do and, as a result (and perhaps also for legal/political reasons), where admissions can be much more numbers-driven), then talk to a college counselor about what specific schools are looking for. It may just be GPA and scores (which is one of the reasons HS are weighting honors courses differently), in which case, maximize GPA (which, again, could involve a mix of honors and non-honors courses). Often colleges will have tables that show % admitted in various categories defined in terms of GPA and score combinations. That could be a good reality check to determine whether the college counselor's advice is credible.

[Anonymous]

I think it depends a lot on the school and what is offered. The colleges get a profile of the school with the college counselors recommendation. If it's a school like Whitman where 80% of the kids take honors or AP classes then the expectation for a more selective college would be that candidates would be taking honors or AP classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm...we heard that colleges like to see you stretch. At least that was the advice dd got for senior year. I had been wondering whether she should take two AP courses senior year (which is what she wanted to do) but when I heard that I thought she should go for it.

But that's just what I heard...once... I'm no expert on these things.

Senior year grades are irrelevant, I always thought. You should have your applications in to all colleges by November and certainly Xmas, even though some app due dates aren't until later & for schools you really want, early decision due date is in the fall. Transcript may show you are registered for these classes, but won't show grades yet. You should be focusing on AP in sophomore and junior year. Schools don't see 2nd semester Senior grades until after acceptances are out, so basically, if you are accepted, you could get straight Ds your second semester senior year and it wouldn't matter. That's why they call it "senior slump"

Has something changed on this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm...we heard that colleges like to see you stretch. At least that was the advice dd got for senior year. I had been wondering whether she should take two AP courses senior year (which is what she wanted to do) but when I heard that I thought she should go for it.

But that's just what I heard...once... I'm no expert on these things.

Senior year grades are irrelevant, I always thought. You should have your applications in to all colleges by November and certainly Xmas, even though some app due dates aren't until later & for schools you really want, early decision due date is in the fall. Transcript may show you are registered for these classes, but won't show grades yet. You should be focusing on AP in sophomore and junior year. Schools don't see 2nd semester Senior grades until after acceptances are out, so basically, if you are accepted, you could get straight Ds your second semester senior year and it wouldn't matter. That's why they call it "senior slump"

Has something changed on this?

Not true unless you are applying ED. They do look at 1st semester grades. And increasingly admission, especially ED admission, is contingent on maintaining grades at normal levels.

[Anonymous]

OP here. What DD is planning on doing is taking honors level in her strong areas only next year, like English, Foreign Language, Government, but doing regular in Math and Science. She wouldn't go into a career that required strong math or science anyway. I would rather her be comfortably challenged, than be stressed. We looked at the GPA/SAT scores from previous grads from her HS and what these numbers were for those admitted to several universities, and she's on track for some pretty decent schools. Not Ivy League, of course, but we don't care about that.

[Anonymous]

Sounds very sensible!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: You should be focusing on AP in sophomore and junior year.

Do people really take AP classes in 10th grade? That would have been shocking "in the olden days" when I grew up (even though I went to a Whitman-like school)

OP I agree challenged but not stressed is what I'd aim for-- it's just figuring that out that's the problem.