I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?

[Anonymous]

Not a Trumper here. I agree that Gerrymandering is bad and ideally would not happen. Clearly it's a problem with both parties.

Honestly, I don't buy the voter suppression and "democracy at stake" hyperbole. Anyone that wants to vote can vote, right? Yes, it might be inconvenient for some based on their work schedule, but that's always been the case. And In most places you can already vote by mail.

When I hear that democracy is at stake, I tune out because it's a huge exaggeration in my mind.

I'm open to argument, though. Can you change my mind?

[Anonymous]

Following. For example, democrats are stating that Texas is trying to suppress voting because they are restricting drive through 24/7 voting. Um, what? I live in deep blue Maryland and we don’t have 24/7 drive through voting, but democrats are demanding that Texas do it?
And the whole ID thing. You need ID everywhere. FFS you need ID and Vax card to enter a restaurant in DC now!

[Anonymous]

Republicans have closed tens of thousands of polling locations across the country, primarily in Democrat voting counties and cities. You wouldn't need drive-thru voting or mail-in voting if Republicans didn't shut down the physical polls.

Similarly, multiple states have now passed legislation that allows the state legislature to overturn any election results they don't like, including the state's Presidential results. Why are political elites overriding the voters?

This is a Republican-generated crisis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Republicans have closed tens of thousands of polling locations across the country, primarily in Democrat voting counties and cities. You wouldn't need drive-thru voting or mail-in voting if Republicans didn't shut down the physical polls.

Similarly, multiple states have now passed legislation that allows the state legislature to overturn any election results they don't like, including the state's Presidential results. Why are political elites overriding the voters?

This is a Republican-generated crisis.

Can you give specific examples of the bolded? I tried looking and the one example I found was Michigan, but it’s a provision that was previously in place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Republicans have closed tens of thousands of polling locations across the country, primarily in Democrat voting counties and cities. You wouldn't need drive-thru voting or mail-in voting if Republicans didn't shut down the physical polls.

Similarly, multiple states have now passed legislation that allows the state legislature to overturn any election results they don't like, including the state's Presidential results. Why are political elites overriding the voters?

This is a Republican-generated crisis.

Give me a break. Democrats talk all high and mighty and get on their soapboxes to preach about how they are apparently the white knights in shining armor protecting democracy and free elections. Get out of here with this trash. I am originally from New Jersey. The Democrats have run the state using their political party boss system, which does exactly opposite of what Democrats preach and stifles free elections and suppresses the will of the voters. The way Democrats run their states is complete hypocrisy. No better example exists than all.ofnthe shenanigans,.corruption, and suppression of voter rights by Democrats because of their political party bosses.

[Anonymous]

We need to ban ballot harvesting. Other countries don’t allow it and we shouldn’t either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Following. For example, democrats are stating that Texas is trying to suppress voting because they are restricting drive through 24/7 voting. Um, what? I live in deep blue Maryland and we don’t have 24/7 drive through voting, but democrats are demanding that Texas do it?
And the whole ID thing. You need ID everywhere. FFS you need ID and Vax card to enter a restaurant in DC now!

To flip the question on its head, why do you feel drive through 24/7 voting should be outlawed? I can't think of one. In many parts of the country there was report after report of people stuck waiting for hours to vote. And, a lot of people have difficult work schedules that aren't compatible with typical polling station hours. Texas cities are also notorious for long commute times due to sprawl development. The more flexibility people have to be allowed to cast their vote, the better. How is it good for Democracy to have policies that make it too hard for people to vote?

With regard to ID, actual proven cases of in-person voter fraud are extremely rare and where people have attempted, they have typically been caught or turned away. So you're trying to "solve" a problem that doesn't meaningfully exist. I thought Republicans were against unnecessary laws and regulations. Also, even if you do require ID, why be overly restrictive? Why refuse student IDs? Believe it or not, a lot of urban teens don't drive. Republicans want to restrict it to driver's license or similar state-issued ID but a lot of Americans don't have such an ID. *IF* that's the requirement, then it's a problem. Most DMVs are a mess. It's hell to get an appointment, appointments may be weeks or months out, when you do finally get an appointment, you're typically going to be waiting in line for a couple of hours to have your documents checked, get your photo taken, etc. If you work, it typically means taking a day off work to get it. And, those IDs typically cost money. That's illegal if it's a requirement for voting. If it costs you, in terms of fees to get the ID or loss of income, that would in effect constitute a poll tax, which is illegal. IF they can make getting an acceptable ID FREE and FAST then I'd have no problem with it. You have to fix those DMVs first before demanding those IDs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Republicans have closed tens of thousands of polling locations across the country, primarily in Democrat voting counties and cities. You wouldn't need drive-thru voting or mail-in voting if Republicans didn't shut down the physical polls.

Similarly, multiple states have now passed legislation that allows the state legislature to overturn any election results they don't like, including the state's Presidential results. Why are political elites overriding the voters?

This is a Republican-generated crisis.

Give me a break. Democrats talk all high and mighty and get on their soapboxes to preach about how they are apparently the white knights in shining armor protecting democracy and free elections. Get out of here with this trash. I am originally from New Jersey. The Democrats have run the state using their political party boss system, which does exactly opposite of what Democrats preach and stifles free elections and suppresses the will of the voters. The way Democrats run their states is complete hypocrisy. No better example exists than all.ofnthe shenanigans,.corruption, and suppression of voter rights by Democrats because of their political party bosses.

You think the GOP doesn't have party bosses? Boy are you naive

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that you’re coming at this from the perspective. You want people to prove to you that specific voting restrictions shouldn’t be allowed. Buying voting is a constitutional right. The burden should be on people who want the restrictions to prove that they are necessary to protect an important interest. If you want to outlaw drive up voting, what compelling interest is that serving?

[Anonymous]

It's "rational", not "rationale".

And you're 100% right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not a Trumper here. I agree that Gerrymandering is bad and ideally would not happen. Clearly it's a problem with both parties.

Honestly, I don't buy the voter suppression and "democracy at stake" hyperbole. Anyone that wants to vote can vote, right? Yes, it might be inconvenient for some based on their work schedule, but that's always been the case. And In most places you can already vote by mail.

When I hear that democracy is at stake, I tune out because it's a huge exaggeration in my mind.

I'm open to argument, though. Can you change my mind?

MD has partisan gerrymandering.
Illinois has partisan gerrymandering.
The rest of the "blue" states generally have independent commissions.

Gerrymandering in MD and IL are in reaction to the gerrymandering in OH, PA, TX, GA, MN, SC, KY, TN, WI etc.

When you try to "both sides" gerrymandering you really lose the argument on the GOP side since it is taken to such extremes and has been made worse in the last 30 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that you’re coming at this from the perspective. You want people to prove to you that specific voting restrictions shouldn’t be allowed. Buying voting is a constitutional right. The burden should be on people who want the restrictions to prove that they are necessary to protect an important interest. If you want to outlaw drive up voting, what compelling interest is that serving?

This.

COVID forced many states to change tactics in order to facilitate safe voting. And it worked well with a handul of fraud charges, ALL of them on the GOP side (2 in PA, 3 in FL and one somewhere else, I forget)
Mail-in allows people to vote safely, allows a paper trail and mitigates fraud, particularly since each individual is tagged to a bar code. Once the bar code is used, it cannot be used again.

and a +1 to the GOP systematically removing precincts and the number of voting booths in precincts in heavily Dem areas. When we so those long lines in Ohio or Texas, they are seldom white voters. The GOP has proven that their platform is unpopular, so the only way they can win is to legally or illegally cheat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Republicans have closed tens of thousands of polling locations across the country, primarily in Democrat voting counties and cities. You wouldn't need drive-thru voting or mail-in voting if Republicans didn't shut down the physical polls.

Similarly, multiple states have now passed legislation that allows the state legislature to overturn any election results they don't like, including the state's Presidential results. Why are political elites overriding the voters?

This is a Republican-generated crisis.

Can you give specific examples of the bolded? I tried looking and the one example I found was Michigan, but it’s a provision that was previously in place.

The Georgia legislation specifically allows the state legislature to supersede the authority of county election boards, and removed the popularly elected Secretary of State from an elections role and replaced him/her with someone appointed by the state legislature.

That’s what passed while the “liberal media” was outraged that it also banned offering water to voters waiting in line at the polls.

Which did you hear about more? Which is more important?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/19/us/politics/republican-states.html
This also includes additional details about similar legislation in Arizona, Kansas and Arkansas.

[Anonymous]

Actually maybe felons are allowed to lose their right to vote, per the constitution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's "rational", not "rationale".

And you're 100% right.

Oops, my bad.