How many APs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP precalculus and AP Calculus AB aren’t necessarily fluff, but if you end up taking Calculus BC, I wouldn’t count them in the number of APs since BC already has an AB score, and would also satisfy any type of major course requirement instead of precalculus (including non stem majors)

Also it makes more sense to count semester units instead of exam results. Calculus BC, Chemistry and Biology correspond to two semesters of college credit, others just one.

Count however you want, but the number alone doesn’t tell the whole story. There’s a core of 10 most challenging classes: Calculus BC, Statistics, Physics C, Chemistry, Biology, Computer science A, English, History, and foreign language that should be prioritized.

I wouldn't consider AP PreCal or AP Cal AB fluff. That said, most who take Calc BC don't do AP Prep and instead do Honors Pre-Cal. AP Pre-Cal doesn't get college credit and isn't necessarily more difficult than Hnrs so there is no point.

At our FCPS school, they stopped offering honors Precalc. They have an AP Precalc AB and AP Precalc BC. Depending on which a student takes, they can then take AP Calc AB or BC. It was confusing because they don’t really explain that BC goes beyond college board requirements and seems to be an FCPS class. I was searching for that on college board but it doesn’t exist. Anyway, just wanted to share as it would have been helpful to me.

It's so interesting to hear about the variations that exist in schools. What is the difference between Precalc AB and Precalc BC? Is it kinda of like the standard class and honors variant?

I can't speak for all schools, but our private school does not offer AP precalc classes. Instead they offer two different non-AP precalculus classes that are meant to prepare you for AP calc the following year. You take precalc AB if in the next year you plan to take AP calculus AB. You take precalc BC if you intend to take AP calculus BC next. Precalc BC goes faster and covers some of the content in AP calculus AB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not how many, it's which APs. And if they are balanced across the main 5 subject areas.

Ideally, you want to get to at least 1+ AP in all 4-5 major subjects: english, math, history, science, language.

We know families with kids who went to ivies with 7-8 APs and with 10+. The sheer number doesn't matter. It's the whole package. People are making their kids mental by trying to do everything at 100% like robots.

I think our school is an outlier in this, as AP Lang is considered an elective, not a core English class. Juniors take Honors English 11 and seniors can take AP Lit as a core English class. So very few students end up taking both AP Lang and AP Lit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not how many, it's which APs. And if they are balanced across the main 5 subject areas.

Ideally, you want to get to at least 1+ AP in all 4-5 major subjects: english, math, history, science, language.

We know families with kids who went to ivies with 7-8 APs and with 10+. The sheer number doesn't matter. It's the whole package. People are making their kids mental by trying to do everything at 100% like robots.

I think our school is an outlier in this, as AP Lang is considered an elective, not a core English class. Juniors take Honors English 11 and seniors can take AP Lit as a core English class. So very few students end up taking both AP Lang and AP Lit.

That s an outlier, because usually AP Lit is the elective and Lang is a required course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP precalculus and AP Calculus AB aren’t necessarily fluff, but if you end up taking Calculus BC, I wouldn’t count them in the number of APs since BC already has an AB score, and would also satisfy any type of major course requirement instead of precalculus (including non stem majors)

Also it makes more sense to count semester units instead of exam results. Calculus BC, Chemistry and Biology correspond to two semesters of college credit, others just one.

Count however you want, but the number alone doesn’t tell the whole story. There’s a core of 10 most challenging classes: Calculus BC, Statistics, Physics C, Chemistry, Biology, Computer science A, English, History, and foreign language that should be prioritized.

I wouldn't consider AP PreCal or AP Cal AB fluff. That said, most who take Calc BC don't do AP Prep and instead do Honors Pre-Cal. AP Pre-Cal doesn't get college credit and isn't necessarily more difficult than Hnrs so there is no point.

At our FCPS school, they stopped offering honors Precalc. They have an AP Precalc AB and AP Precalc BC. Depending on which a student takes, they can then take AP Calc AB or BC. It was confusing because they don’t really explain that BC goes beyond college board requirements and seems to be an FCPS class. I was searching for that on college board but it doesn’t exist. Anyway, just wanted to share as it would have been helpful to me.

It's so interesting to hear about the variations that exist in schools. What is the difference between Precalc AB and Precalc BC? Is it kinda of like the standard class and honors variant?

I can't speak for all schools, but our private school does not offer AP precalc classes. Instead they offer two different non-AP precalculus classes that are meant to prepare you for AP calc the following year. You take precalc AB if in the next year you plan to take AP calculus AB. You take precalc BC if you intend to take AP calculus BC next. Precalc BC goes faster and covers some of the content in AP calculus AB. [/quote

This is normal and how it should be. AP Pre-calc is a joke. Universities should tell high schools to stop this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not one for big government, but given the power they have, the College Board should really be regulated. Their power in determining scoring for the SAT and creating AP courses is out of hand.

The fact that there is even "AP Pre-Calc" is nuts. I theoretically am supportive of the concept of APs as it makes it easier to compare schools. But the number of them has gotten crazy. If many 9th graders are taking several college level courses at a time, then there is something wrong with APs. This is not the occasional one off genius - it has become prevalent.

And don't get me started on SAT scoring. We should go back to the old system where there was a wider spread of scores and scoring over 1500 almost never happened.

Now get off my lawn!

You're overthinking it.

High school and college overlap.

The most advanced honors high school students are farther along in their education than the least advanced college first-year students. There are many classes that are offered at both high school and college, and this is a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not how many, it's which APs. And if they are balanced across the main 5 subject areas.

Ideally, you want to get to at least 1+ AP in all 4-5 major subjects: english, math, history, science, language.

We know families with kids who went to ivies with 7-8 APs and with 10+. The sheer number doesn't matter. It's the whole package. People are making their kids mental by trying to do everything at 100% like robots.

I think our school is an outlier in this, as AP Lang is considered an elective, not a core English class. Juniors take Honors English 11 and seniors can take AP Lit as a core English class. So very few students end up taking both AP Lang and AP Lit.

That s an outlier, because usually AP Lit is the elective and Lang is a required course.

??? Required by whom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get how kids can fit so many in. Our schools has 6 class periods. AP runs all yr. You have to take bio, chem, physics before you can take the AP of those.

9- none
10- 3 (AP calc AB, AP US, AP Eng lang) all 5s
11-3 (AP calc BC, AP govt, AP Eng lit)
12- I don’t know yet, but likely AP physics, multivariable calc, dual enrollment for English, another AP for history?

So that would add up to 10 APs. Our school doesn’t offer a lot of the fluff APs (precalc, macro/micro economics, etc)

That's a bit disparaging. Some students go straight to BC, does that make AB 'fluff'. Micro/Macro is a legit class. It may not be the toughest AP, but Econ 101, Psych 101, etc are generally not that difficult at the collegiate level either? AP Gov? You seem to be selectively belittling classes.

Our school doesn’t allow BC without AB

Ours doesn’t allow BC with AB first either.

My kid took 3 APs in 9th, 6 in 10th, and now 5 in 11th.

How is it even possible to take 6 APs in 10 th

Science, calc, history, English, micro, macro

Don’t all 10th graders have to take regular/honors chem in 10th grade before moving on to AP sciences ?

No. Why would you think this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not how many, it's which APs. And if they are balanced across the main 5 subject areas.

Ideally, you want to get to at least 1+ AP in all 4-5 major subjects: english, math, history, science, language.

We know families with kids who went to ivies with 7-8 APs and with 10+. The sheer number doesn't matter. It's the whole package. People are making their kids mental by trying to do everything at 100% like robots.

I agree with the guidance you note. I think for the bolded, while sometimes true, there is some grace to be had for many parents and students. While yes, there are clearly some 'tiger-parents', I think for many, admissions is just very different from when we went to high school. I went to a typical suburban high school, pretty well resourced for its day (late 80s). We had, if I recall, maybe 9 AP classes, which still true today at many schools.

However, at my DC's school, they have all of them (30+). When you attend college info sessions, you will hear comments like "we expect students to make the most of the resources available to them", "if you only have 6 APs, we expect the you take most of them". I still recall at Duke they said ~"Given a choice between the AP class with a 'B' and non-AP class with an 'A', we expect you to take the AP class and get an 'A'. Our applicants are that competitive". You will sometimes hear "You don't need to take everything, but at least the ones tied to your interest area and maybe show some breadth". Finally, you also hear "you will be evaluated in the context of your school (and by definition peers). Therein lies the challenge. What happens when a student is in an environment with 20, 25, 30+ APs? What is the expectation then?

I think your council above is a good starting point. Until one is educated enough to parse all the vague and sometimes contradictory statements from colleges, it can feel hard to know what guidance one should give their student. Particularly when you're staring down relatively low acceptance rates at the in-state flagship(s), tight acceptance rates for particular programs (CS, Business, Nursing), and of course the more selective privates.

So while threads like this sometimes seem like it's geared toward tiger-parenting, I think they can serve as a helpful resource in educating and bringing down the anxiety a bit. It helps when someone says their child (or one they know) didnt over-extend themselves and had a good outcome - for them. The web is littered with suggestions that one needs to take a ton of APs, self-study AP, take DE math in the summers to get to linear alebra+,etc. so its helpful to share experiences that break through the noise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not how many, it's which APs. And if they are balanced across the main 5 subject areas.

Ideally, you want to get to at least 1+ AP in all 4-5 major subjects: english, math, history, science, language.

We know families with kids who went to ivies with 7-8 APs and with 10+. The sheer number doesn't matter. It's the whole package. People are making their kids mental by trying to do everything at 100% like robots.

I agree with the guidance you note. I think for the bolded, while sometimes true, there is some grace to be had for many parents and students. While yes, there are clearly some 'tiger-parents', I think for many, admissions is just very different from when we went to high school. I went to a typical suburban high school, pretty well resourced for its day (late 80s). We had, if I recall, maybe 9 AP classes, which still true today at many schools.

However, at my DC's school, they have all of them (30+). When you attend college info sessions, you will hear comments like "we expect students to make the most of the resources available to them", "if you only have 6 APs, we expect the you take most of them". I still recall at Duke they said ~"Given a choice between the AP class with a 'B' and non-AP class with an 'A', we expect you to take the AP class and get an 'A'. Our applicants are that competitive". You will sometimes hear "You don't need to take everything, but at least the ones tied to your interest area and maybe show some breadth". Finally, you also hear "you will be evaluated in the context of your school (and by definition peers). Therein lies the challenge. What happens when a student is in an environment with 20, 25, 30+ APs? What is the expectation then?

I think your council above is a good starting point. Until one is educated enough to parse all the vague and sometimes contradictory statements from colleges, it can feel hard to know what guidance one should give their student. Particularly when you're staring down relatively low acceptance rates at the in-state flagship(s), tight acceptance rates for particular programs (CS, Business, Nursing), and of course the more selective privates.

So while threads like this sometimes seem like it's geared toward tiger-parenting, I think they can serve as a helpful resource in educating and bringing down the anxiety a bit. It helps when someone says their child (or one they know) didnt over-extend themselves and had a good outcome - for them. The web is littered with suggestions that one needs to take a ton of APs, self-study AP, take DE math in the summers to get to linear alebra+,etc. so its helpful to share experiences that break through the noise.

You make a lot of great points. And the solution is to help kids be protected from their own worst instincts. Set policies at high schools capping the number of APs a kid can take. Then they are taking advantage of resources to the best of their abilities without going overboard. I'm sure this will give tiger parents anxiety attacks but people just need to chill out.

It is also why there is something to be said for sending your kid to a really good but not great high school. They can take advantage of everything the school offers without feeling forced to do too much. And guess what, they will still do just fine in college when in classes with the kids with 15 APs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not how many, it's which APs. And if they are balanced across the main 5 subject areas.

Ideally, you want to get to at least 1+ AP in all 4-5 major subjects: english, math, history, science, language.

We know families with kids who went to ivies with 7-8 APs and with 10+. The sheer number doesn't matter. It's the whole package. People are making their kids mental by trying to do everything at 100% like robots.

+100