Is it really worth it to pay a premium for a house in a top school pyramid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, buy in the best district you can afford that makes sense for your commute. The rest of it is just noise.

We bought as close to our commute midpoints as we could within our budget. The neighborhood has a well regarded elementary and middle school within walking distance. The high school (also walking distance) is middle of the pack for FCPS, but that is still pretty darn good. McLean and some of the other places with the better reputations made no sense for us commute-wise, and we couldn't have had a house with a yard there, anyway.

People get way too wrapped up in the "best of the best" here. A good student can do well at any FCPS school. The socioeconomics of the surrounding student body is the biggest difference among the schools, and in most cases, there is a high achieving, motivated group somewhere there. Just have your son involved in activities, get to know the other parents, etc. I grew up in a less affluent area, and still managed to do quite well in school as my parents were involved in my life. I never got in trouble and had a good group of friends.

The high-scoring schools have problems, too - just a different variety.

Another one who agrees with this. Plus, if you have a good student at a not-so-perfect school, that helps in the college application process. The ones who shine at the not top 5 high schools often get into colleges where they would not had they been in the middle of the pack at the top 5 HS.

+100 - I do believe my DC has had an advantage in the college admissions process by being an above-average student at an 'average' high school, especially for admission to in-state universities. DC also didn't feel the stress that kids at the highly regarded supposedly feel, because there was not so much competition among the students, and has been able to enjoy the junior and senior years.

[Anonymous]

Personally I find school "rankings" to be overrated. The lower ranked schools typically have lower test score averages because they pull from some lower income, diverse areas. I personally think there's a lot of educational advantages to being exposed to cultural and socioeconomic differences.

Plus, I think smart kids have a lot to gain by being one of the smartest kids in the schol, which opens up a lot of opportunities, than one of dozens and dozens of smart kids, as is the case at McLean, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting, PP. We're in Marshall pyramid and were thinking of moving to the McLean pyramid for HS, assuming it would be better. Now I'm reconsidering because I think DC may be happier at a more laid back school. It's nice to hear you speak of them similarly in terms of quality. maybe we'll save ourselves some money (and anxiety) and stay in the Marshall pyramid.

Marshall and McLean are both excellent. The choice would be AP or IB. For my family, we tend to gravitate towards science and math and away from the Humanities. AP is a better fit for us. It depends on the child.

IME, McLean is much more laid back than Longfellow (MS). Since so many high pressure students at Longfellow go to Langley or TJ or private, the ones remaining do not dominate the culture like they did in MS. There is still a very good academic culture, but it isn't as intense.

+1. Which is why we ultimately decided not to buy in Longfellow district but in N. Arlington instead. I'm sure it's great for some families, but we didn't want that type of pressure in MS for our kids. Again, just a personal choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
+100 - I do believe my DC has had an advantage in the college admissions process by being an above-average student at an 'average' high school, especially for admission to in-state universities. DC also didn't feel the stress that kids at the highly regarded supposedly feel, because there was not so much competition among the students, and has been able to enjoy the junior and senior years.

"Supposedly" is the key word here. I think you are conjuring up an image of certain schools that doesn't square with their reality.

The counter-argument to what you've said would be that admissions directors at some schools are more familiar with the top-ranked schools, so a student attending one of those schools has an advantage over a similar student attending a school that is less well known with lower test scores. We'd need to see a lot of data to determine which of these theories really hold up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting, PP. We're in Marshall pyramid and were thinking of moving to the McLean pyramid for HS, assuming it would be better. Now I'm reconsidering because I think DC may be happier at a more laid back school. It's nice to hear you speak of them similarly in terms of quality. maybe we'll save ourselves some money (and anxiety) and stay in the Marshall pyramid.

Marshall and McLean are both excellent. The choice would be AP or IB. For my family, we tend to gravitate towards science and math and away from the Humanities. AP is a better fit for us. It depends on the child.

IME, McLean is much more laid back than Longfellow (MS). Since so many high pressure students at Longfellow go to Langley or TJ or private, the ones remaining do not dominate the culture like they did in MS. There is still a very good academic culture, but it isn't as intense.

+1. Which is why we ultimately decided not to buy in Longfellow district but in N. Arlington instead. I'm sure it's great for some families, but we didn't want that type of pressure in MS for our kids. Again, just a personal choice.

We bought when I was pregnant with my now 16 y.o. Middle School was not at the top of our list for determining where to buy. At the time we lived in a 750sf house near Overly Pool and it was going to be too small fast. We couldn't afford the larger homes in the area and we didn't want that much space anyway (well, we didn't like the amount what the bank said we could). We moved ~3 miles into southern McLean and bought a 1900sf. It has served us well. We have only 4 more months of Longfellow. The math has been good for both DCs, but I could have done without a few other things.

[Montana]

I agree w 8:13. If you are an average kid academically, being in the top schools may not help you. But if you p[ut the same kid in a what is deemed, less-school, where same performance may get him higher rankings, that would help. Tough call.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting, PP. We're in Marshall pyramid and were thinking of moving to the McLean pyramid for HS, assuming it would be better. Now I'm reconsidering because I think DC may be happier at a more laid back school. It's nice to hear you speak of them similarly in terms of quality. maybe we'll save ourselves some money (and anxiety) and stay in the Marshall pyramid.

You can also notice that marshall was rated slightly higher than McLean last year so they are both equally excellent schools.

2012 SATs - Langley (1812), McLean (1755), Madison (1730), Marshall (1702)

Fall 2012 National Merit Semifinalists - Langley (13), McLean (11), Madison (9), Marshall (8)

Jay Matthews/Washington Post Regional Challenge Index - McLean (14), Madison (15), Langley (16), Marshall (54)

US News/State of Virginia Rankings - Marshall (3), McLean (4), Langley (6), Madison (8)

GreatSchools - Each receives a "9" on a 1-10 scale.

Percentage of Students Receiving Free/Reduced Lunch - Langley (1.55%), Madison (8.60%), McLean (10.18%), Marshall (16.75%).

Percentage of Students With Limited English Proficiency - Langley (1.70%), Madison (4.25%), McLean (6.35%), Marshall (10.71%).

Looks like Marshall is killing it despite higher farms, limited english

It really doesn't matter, since this is all about perception. Marshall isn't perceived to be as good a school, and that affects the property values around it negatively relative to the other HSs.

You are stuck in the 90s

No, not really. But you are living in a fantasy world. I'm sure that's reassuring to you, but insisting something is so doesn't make it true.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I live in North Arlington. I'm just telling you that when we were looking for houses in 2011, Marshall wasn't even on our radar screen as we considered school pyramids. The other two, however, were big competitors in our homebuying decision. Most people are like that.

I'm sure Marshall is a fine school. I'm sure it's even true that perceptions lag reality. But that doesn't change the economics of the homebuying process. Right now, Hyundai is a fine car, but most people still prefer to buy Honda or Toyota.

You are pretty ignorant because Marshall pyramid is much better than anything in north arlington.

[Anonymous]

Sadly, a lot of this is just racism. Houses cost less even in districts with high performing schools if there are higher percentages of minorities in the school. I don't think that everyone feels this way, but enough people do to impact housing prices.

[Anonymous]

Marshall Parents - The next time you ask why people inexplicably seem to dump on Marshall, please refer to the prior post. You have a very good school, but you also have several parents like Crazy Marshall Lady who are horrible ambassadors for the place. As long as they make asinine comparisons, treat the US News survey like it's dispositive, and hype Pimmit Hills like it's Clarendon, they are asking for trouble.

And, of course, it goes without saying that many of the schools in North Arlington are great. All the prior poster was saying was that the Marshall pyramid doesn't have the name recognition yet of the North Arlington pyramids, and he/she is correct. The antidote is to spread the good news (based on valid data, of course) about Marshall, not respond with more insults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sadly, a lot of this is just racism. Houses cost less even in districts with high performing schools if there are higher percentages of minorities in the school. I don't think that everyone feels this way, but enough people do to impact housing prices.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Marshall Parents - The next time you ask why people inexplicably seem to dump on Marshall, please refer to the prior post. You have a very good school, but you also have several parents like Crazy Marshall Lady who are horrible ambassadors for the place. As long as they make asinine comparisons, treat the US News survey like it's dispositive, and hype Pimmit Hills like it's Clarendon, they are asking for trouble.

And, of course, it goes without saying that many of the schools in North Arlington are great. All the prior poster was saying was that the Marshall pyramid doesn't have the name recognition yet of the North Arlington pyramids, and he/she is correct. The antidote is to spread the good news (based on valid data, of course) about Marshall, not respond with more insults.

arlington snob

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting, PP. We're in Marshall pyramid and were thinking of moving to the McLean pyramid for HS, assuming it would be better. Now I'm reconsidering because I think DC may be happier at a more laid back school. It's nice to hear you speak of them similarly in terms of quality. maybe we'll save ourselves some money (and anxiety) and stay in the Marshall pyramid.

Marshall and McLean are both excellent. The choice would be AP or IB. For my family, we tend to gravitate towards science and math and away from the Humanities. AP is a better fit for us. It depends on the child.

IME, McLean is much more laid back than Longfellow (MS). Since so many high pressure students at Longfellow go to Langley or TJ or private, the ones remaining do not dominate the culture like they did in MS. There is still a very good academic culture, but it isn't as intense.

+1. Which is why we ultimately decided not to buy in Longfellow district but in N. Arlington instead. I'm sure it's great for some families, but we didn't want that type of pressure in MS for our kids. Again, just a personal choice.

I agree with the poster who said McLean is more laid back than Longfellow, but it's mostly a reflection of the students. Longfellow isn't a high-pressure environment for the students who don't have their sights set on TJ. But it is a school with one of the highest concentrations of high-achieving middle school students in the country; it celebrates the academic accomplishments of its top students openly and with no apologies; and almost every Longfellow student or parent is aware of the very high academic expectations that some of the parents have for their children. We worried before moving into the Longfellow district whether our MS child would find this atmosphere deflating. We never got that sense, but he's definitely happier at McLean, and the vibe there is sufficiently upbeat that we feel that we made a good choice. Exposing your kids to "diversity" doesn't only mean low-income students and/or AA or Hispanic students. It can also mean Asian students from China, Korea and India whose parents place a very high emphasis on education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting, PP. We're in Marshall pyramid and were thinking of moving to the McLean pyramid for HS, assuming it would be better. Now I'm reconsidering because I think DC may be happier at a more laid back school. It's nice to hear you speak of them similarly in terms of quality. maybe we'll save ourselves some money (and anxiety) and stay in the Marshall pyramid.

You can also notice that marshall was rated slightly higher than McLean last year so they are both equally excellent schools.

2012 SATs - Langley (1812), McLean (1755), Madison (1730), Marshall (1702)

Fall 2012 National Merit Semifinalists - Langley (13), McLean (11), Madison (9), Marshall (8)

Jay Matthews/Washington Post Regional Challenge Index - McLean (14), Madison (15), Langley (16), Marshall (54)

US News/State of Virginia Rankings - Marshall (3), McLean (4), Langley (6), Madison (8)

GreatSchools - Each receives a "9" on a 1-10 scale.

Percentage of Students Receiving Free/Reduced Lunch - Langley (1.55%), Madison (8.60%), McLean (10.18%), Marshall (16.75%).

Percentage of Students With Limited English Proficiency - Langley (1.70%), Madison (4.25%), McLean (6.35%), Marshall (10.71%).

Would love this data for the purported "Top 4" in Montgomery County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marshall Parents - The next time you ask why people inexplicably seem to dump on Marshall, please refer to the prior post. You have a very good school, but you also have several parents like Crazy Marshall Lady who are horrible ambassadors for the place. As long as they make asinine comparisons, treat the US News survey like it's dispositive, and hype Pimmit Hills like it's Clarendon, they are asking for trouble.

And, of course, it goes without saying that many of the schools in North Arlington are great. All the prior poster was saying was that the Marshall pyramid doesn't have the name recognition yet of the North Arlington pyramids, and he/she is correct. The antidote is to spread the good news (based on valid data, of course) about Marshall, not respond with more insults.

arlington snob

I prefer realist, but thanks for proving my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting, PP. We're in Marshall pyramid and were thinking of moving to the McLean pyramid for HS, assuming it would be better. Now I'm reconsidering because I think DC may be happier at a more laid back school. It's nice to hear you speak of them similarly in terms of quality. maybe we'll save ourselves some money (and anxiety) and stay in the Marshall pyramid.

You can also notice that marshall was rated slightly higher than McLean last year so they are both equally excellent schools.

2012 SATs - Langley (1812), McLean (1755), Madison (1730), Marshall (1702)

Fall 2012 National Merit Semifinalists - Langley (13), McLean (11), Madison (9), Marshall (8)

Jay Matthews/Washington Post Regional Challenge Index - McLean (14), Madison (15), Langley (16), Marshall (54)

US News/State of Virginia Rankings - Marshall (3), McLean (4), Langley (6), Madison (8)

GreatSchools - Each receives a "9" on a 1-10 scale.

Percentage of Students Receiving Free/Reduced Lunch - Langley (1.55%), Madison (8.60%), McLean (10.18%), Marshall (16.75%).

Percentage of Students With Limited English Proficiency - Langley (1.70%), Madison (4.25%), McLean (6.35%), Marshall (10.71%).

Would love this data for the purported "Top 4" in Montgomery County.

These aren't the top four in FCPS - excluding TJ, that would be Langley, McLean, Woodson and Madison. Maybe I'll pull this together later, but Whitman, Churchill, and Wootton (not sure whether your fourth is Poolesville, B-CC, Walter Johnson or some other school) have higher SATs and more NMSFs, and score higher on the "Challenge Index" as well. That's largely a result of TJ's presence in Fairfax. The magnet programs in MoCo at schools like Blair and Richard Montgomery are much smaller and don't attract as many of the county's top students as TJ does in Fairfax. As a result, more of those students remain at their base schools.