Comparisons of PA LACs?

[Anonymous]

Depending on kid/kid's needs/preferences....

Option 1: LAC/University/Religious [or Single Sex]/Urban/Suburban Variety in 2 days (assuming you live in DMV)...good for kids who have no idea what they want early in the process; if Penn too aspirational, can swap in Drexel
Day 1 AM: Drive to Philly suburbs. AM - Swarthmore visit. Leave car in Swarthmore. Take SEPTA train to UPenn. PM - UPenn visit, walk around Philly. Dinner in Center City. Take train back out to Swarthmore in evening (stay in hotel in Swarthmore area).
Day 2: AM - Haverford, Bryn Mawr, or Villanova (depending on student interest). PM - Drive to Princeton, Princeton tour. Drive home.

Option 2: 8 colleges in 3 days, assuming you live in DMV and kid is focused on LACs
Day 1: Early AM: Drive to Gettysburg College. Morning visit to Gettysburg. Drive from Gettysburg to Dickinson College (45 minutes). Mid-day tour/lunch @ Dickinson. Drive to Franklin & Marshall College (1 hr). Afternoon visit to Franklin & Marshall. Dinner/stay in Lancaster area.
Day 2: Drive to Muhlenberg College (1.5 hrs). AM Tour/visit at Muhlenberg. Drive to Lehigh University (20 minutes). Mid-day visit/lunch/tour at Lehigh. Drive to Lafayette College (20 minutes). Afternoon visit to Lafayette. Dinner near Lafayette; drive to Philly Main Line for hotel/overnight (1 hr 20 minutes to Haverford, for reference).
Day 3: AM - Haverford or Bryn Mawr College visit. Drive to Swarthmore (15 minutes). Lunch & PM visit - Swarthmore. Drive home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haverford and Swarthmore are both selective…but different communities. Haverford has Quaker roots. It is small and tight knit. Swarthmore is very intense, in a way that my DC did not like.

+1000

Though they are often compared to each other (and are in the same consortium so students can cross register for classes), they have very different vibes. Swarthmore feels more like U Chicago/Hopkins...very intense/hyper intellectual...Haverford feels more like Brown/Wesleyan/Carleton. Both great schools but they tend to appeal to different types.

We visited Haverford, Swarthmore and Penn in one visit. DC expected to like Haverford the most because we had heard the same as above. However, Haverford was so quiet it was unnerving. The tour guide (which I know is luck of the draw) was bland and her enthusiasms for Haverford (if they could even be called that) were so generic. Not only were DC and we turned off on the school for him personally after the visit, I’d say we left feeling like the college has no identity. Versus Swarthmore had a lot more students out and about on campus (the visits were on the same day of the week) and the tour guide was really passionate and specific about what she loved about Swarthmore, the different things her friends are passionate about there, etc. DC wound up not even applying to Haverford which I still wonder if was a mistake based on all of the great things we had read about Haverford but the in person visit was a bust.

So funny...we had the opposite experience regarding which schools' tour guides making good vs not-so-good impressions)...at Swarthmore, our tour guide spent a good chunk of time talking about how hard it was and how stressed out the students were...which is definitely the reputation of the school but an odd thing to stress to prospective students. It is a beautiful campus but we left feeling like the "identity" of the school was mostly kids feeling stressed (or liking to talk about how stressed they are). At Haverford (also quite beautiful but in a more understated way), we had a lovely tour guide who spoke quite passionately about the school's honor code, why he had chosen Haverford (he wanted to purse a career in mediation and thought the Quaker roots of the school and its commitment to making decisions by consensus, combined with a specific social justice program made it a good fit)...Overall, we left feeling like we understood the school's identity as being firmly rooted in its Quakerism, even if there was nothing overtly religious about the place.

I think the takeaway-- as the PP alluded to--is that the tour guides are luck of the draw to some extent (on the other hand, it's hard for kids to NOT let the tours influence them, right?) I will say that I have heard that many SLACs (I'm guessing Haverford is among them because it is very small) are quite quiet over the summer and during school breaks because there aren't many students on campus so take that into consideration when you plan visits. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depending on kid/kid's needs/preferences....

Option 1: LAC/University/Religious [or Single Sex]/Urban/Suburban Variety in 2 days (assuming you live in DMV)...good for kids who have no idea what they want early in the process; if Penn too aspirational, can swap in Drexel
Day 1 AM: Drive to Philly suburbs. AM - Swarthmore visit. Leave car in Swarthmore. Take SEPTA train to UPenn. PM - UPenn visit, walk around Philly. Dinner in Center City. Take train back out to Swarthmore in evening (stay in hotel in Swarthmore area).
Day 2: AM - Haverford, Bryn Mawr, or Villanova (depending on student interest). PM - Drive to Princeton, Princeton tour. Drive home.

Option 2: 8 colleges in 3 days, assuming you live in DMV and kid is focused on LACs
Day 1: Early AM: Drive to Gettysburg College. Morning visit to Gettysburg. Drive from Gettysburg to Dickinson College (45 minutes). Mid-day tour/lunch @ Dickinson. Drive to Franklin & Marshall College (1 hr). Afternoon visit to Franklin & Marshall. Dinner/stay in Lancaster area.
Day 2: Drive to Muhlenberg College (1.5 hrs). AM Tour/visit at Muhlenberg. Drive to Lehigh University (20 minutes). Mid-day visit/lunch/tour at Lehigh. Drive to Lafayette College (20 minutes). Afternoon visit to Lafayette. Dinner near Lafayette; drive to Philly Main Line for hotel/overnight (1 hr 20 minutes to Haverford, for reference).
Day 3: AM - Haverford or Bryn Mawr College visit. Drive to Swarthmore (15 minutes). Lunch & PM visit - Swarthmore. Drive home.



Wow, well done! You wanna plan my vacation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d group Swarthmore, Haverford and BM as one similar group (with BM being all women)- incredibly small, intense academics, students interested in a “life of the mind.” Dickinson could be a safety for this group. I’d next group Lehigh, lafayette, Bucknell (debatable whether to call Lehigh a LAC but I’d still group it with these others) with greek life dominating the social life and lots of well-rounded students (not as many rising PhD candidates but lots going onto law/med schools and jobs in finance). F&M and Gettysburg could be safeties for this group. I do not know much about the rest.

This is a good start. The toughest to get into are Swarthmore, Haverford, and Lehigh.

I think seeing any more than two in a day is brutal.

If I were you, I'd come spend a night in Philly. See Swarthmore OR Haverford in the morning, and St. Joe's in the afternoon. St. Joe's is a very nice school, but it is not the preppy SLAC that some of these schools are. It would give you a true contrast to Swarth/Hav.

Then drive up to Allentown and knock off Lehigh and Lafayette the next day. If you are REALLY ambitious, maybe see Muhlenberg, but again, I think that's too much for one day.

If you are really into this, head northwest and see Bucknell and Gettysburg on the third day. After that, you should be brain-dead.

It's hard to tell you anything else unless we know what kind of kid you have.

Lehigh is no longer that tough to get into, as they are expanding the size of the school with the new College of Health.

Lehigh had a few years - classes of '24-26, where high admission rates reflected the opening of the School of Health and the university's need to populate it. However, in the most recent cycle, Lehigh had its highest number of applicants ever, and the admission rate was back down in the 20s (28%), in the range it was for a decade pre-pandemic. Still not Ivy or Top-LAC level, but competitive enough so that even a strong student should consider ED as a more reliable path into the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:... Candidates for Swarthmore and Bryn Mawr shouldn't waste their time looking at Susquehanna and vice versa.

Totally disagree. Finding likelies and matches that your kid is excited about is way more important that picking out just the right dream school (which, as a pure numbers matter, probably isn't going to happen no matter how fabulous your kid is). So maybe skip Susquehanna if it's too remote for your kid...but then check out St. Joe's instead!

Susquehanna also bills itself as a "Christian" college, which to me means fundamentalist; totally different from a Jesuit or Catholic institution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d group Swarthmore, Haverford and BM as one similar group (with BM being all women)- incredibly small, intense academics, students interested in a “life of the mind.” Dickinson could be a safety for this group. I’d next group Lehigh, lafayette, Bucknell (debatable whether to call Lehigh a LAC but I’d still group it with these others) with greek life dominating the social life and lots of well-rounded students (not as many rising PhD candidates but lots going onto law/med schools and jobs in finance). F&M and Gettysburg could be safeties for this group. I do not know much about the rest.

This is a good start. The toughest to get into are Swarthmore, Haverford, and Lehigh.

I think seeing any more than two in a day is brutal.

If I were you, I'd come spend a night in Philly. See Swarthmore OR Haverford in the morning, and St. Joe's in the afternoon. St. Joe's is a very nice school, but it is not the preppy SLAC that some of these schools are. It would give you a true contrast to Swarth/Hav.

Then drive up to Allentown and knock off Lehigh and Lafayette the next day. If you are REALLY ambitious, maybe see Muhlenberg, but again, I think that's too much for one day.

If you are really into this, head northwest and see Bucknell and Gettysburg on the third day. After that, you should be brain-dead.

It's hard to tell you anything else unless we know what kind of kid you have.

This is great advice! BTDT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, now I see that you added some info. Based on the assumption that she's a strong student, I'm sticking with my Philly/Allentown/Bucknell-Gettysburg recommendation. Maybe swap in Penn for St. Joe's to get an Ivy in there. Or swap Villanova for St. Joe's.

Given that it is really hard to find targets and safeties, I'd keep St. Joe's as it is probably a safety for this student. The same can't be said for the other schools listed with the possible exception of Muhlenberg and Dickinson. They need merit aid, and Penn will not offer that; OP said they will not qualify for FA. St. Joe's is generous with merit aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd highly recommend checking out the Fiske Guide to Colleges, then having you and your daughter read the descriptions of each of these schools. Chances are some schools will seem less appealing to her, and others will seem more appealing.

Meh to Fiske. Yea to Princeton Review's Guide to 387 colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, now I see that you added some info. Based on the assumption that she's a strong student, I'm sticking with my Philly/Allentown/Bucknell-Gettysburg recommendation. Maybe swap in Penn for St. Joe's to get an Ivy in there. Or swap Villanova for St. Joe's.

Given that it is really hard to find targets and safeties, I'd keep St. Joe's as it is probably a safety for this student. The same can't be said for the other schools listed with the possible exception of Muhlenberg and Dickinson. They need merit aid, and Penn will not offer that; OP said they will not qualify for FA. St. Joe's is generous with merit aid.

Agreed! St. Joe's is nice, AND generous.

[Anonymous]

This thread was revived- OP’s child would be a junior now. Give us an update if you see this, OP.

[Anonymous]

My kid got significant merit and need—based aid at Bucknell and does not drink or go to wild parties. That just never appealed to her. She was very happy at Bucknell and easily found her group. Not everyone there parties or is in a sorority or fraternity.

[Anonymous]

I would eliminate Allegheny from consideration.

It is VERY out of the way, and in a sketchy town. I don't mean sleepy, I mean scary/rustbelt/opium epidemic-ravaged.

(Which is a shame, since the school is fine.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would eliminate Allegheny from consideration.

It is VERY out of the way, and in a sketchy town. I don't mean sleepy, I mean scary/rustbelt/opium epidemic-ravaged.

(Which is a shame, since the school is fine.)

Can you talk more about the academics? I'm less worried about the scary town and more interested in the school. I realize this is months later, but we've applied based on its academic rigor and am curious if anyone has any real-time experience on how that's playing out now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is only in 10th, maybe it makes more sense to stay home and try to figure out what she is interested in studying and doing in college. I’m not sure if seeing a random assortment of colleges makes any sense.

If you want to come visit Philly and do cool Philly things, and walk around the Penn campus and St Joes campus, go ahead, but I don’t see what is the point of taking tours when she’s only a sophomore and doesn’t know what she wants to study.

I think the early tours can be useful but less so if you are look at all similar ones and really IMO all LACs start to sound the same. I'd do a big school, a LAC, an urban campus, a college town etc. She thinks she wants small but based on what?

We did this with DS his sophomore year and it was helpful (urban or small no!, big school in a college town, yes!)

Great advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid got significant merit and need—based aid at Bucknell and does not drink or go to wild parties. That just never appealed to her. She was very happy at Bucknell and easily found her group. Not everyone there parties or is in a sorority or fraternity.

I used to teach there many years ago. The students are a mixed bag; many of them unfortunately do fit the stereotype—I remember the first time I attended the Chrysanthemum Ball seeing all these young women being helped back to their dorms by friends because they were too drunk to walk.

But there are also many nice, serious students. You can get an excellent education because the school is really focused on what I’d call “customer service” (good teaching evaluations). Advanced course offerings can be limited due to being a liberal arts college. Lewisburg is rural and isolated but also safe and cozy, not like UPenn or Temple. It isn’t diverse, or at least it wasn’t in my time, so if you’re a minority be aware of that.