Question for those that have a Gen Ed child and an AAP Center in their base school

[Anonymous]

Our Elementary School is an AAP center. Over the years we have seen so many issues around the center (over crowding, students made to feel lesser if Gen Ed, parents going crazy to get their kids into the center, etc).

In each grade above 3rd our school has 2-3 times as many AAP classes than Gen Ed, per grade. Is this proportion similar at other center schools?

Does anyone have children at a center school that does a good job of dealing with the behavioral issues in Gen Ed?

Would love to hear from some parents at a Center school with kids in Gen Ed that have good testimonials. Concerned that my child is going to get lost in the shuffle.

[Anonymous]

Not sure which school you are concerned about. Frankly all the ES are overcrowded wheatg0her they are a center school or not.

I have two kids on different tracks. They both have had classes in trailers, huge class sizes and other crowding issues It is the norm these days. They are both holding up well.
Our AAP center is GBW. it is huge, but CP is still bigger.

[Anonymous]

I have a GE student in a center school. The school has more AAP classes than GE classes. Some grades have a 5-2 split, others have a 4-3 split.

I don't see any different behavioral issues with the GE students and AAP students. Since the kids were in the same classes K-2, I can't say that the best or worst were disproportionately selected for AAP. Well and poor behaved are in both.

I would say the most difficult aspect for the school is the divide between the children. They are in separate classes. The specials are only with the children in their class. They eat lunch together, but are in assigned sits with children from their class. This creates a huge division in the school. My GE student is not really friends with many of his friends from K-2 that are now in AAP.

The biggest issue for our GE student is his feelings about himself. He received pull-outs for math and language arts in 1st and 2nd (and still does as a Level III student). Since he was getting pull-outs in 1st and 2nd, he believed he was one of the smarter students in the class. He now feels he's not very smart. It has been a struggle for us to keep up his self-esteem with regard to school. We try not to dwell on the issue, and tell him he is smart. In truth, he scored in the 80th and 90th percentile on the screening tests. He just struggles with believing us when we tell him since more kids in his school are in AAP than in GE.

[Anonymous]

I have a GE student at a Center school. As other posters have said, there are behavioral issues in both GE and AAP classes. I think a lot depends on your child's personality. It is a process and real life learning experience kids endure in Center elementary schools. DD, now in 6th grade has watched her friends one by one move into AAP each year while she has remained in GE. The issue has not been academics because there are good teachers in both GE and AAP classrooms. However, it has taken an emotional toll on her self esteem being separated at school where there is a perception that AAP kids are smarter.

DD cannot wait to leave elementary school where she will attend a non-Center base middle school. Some of her friends in AAP will attend a different Center middle school so we are preparing for another round of emotional toll at the end of this school year. We continue to remind her that she can still hang with these same friends after school and she will see them in High School. It is sad to think that these Center schools have created this situation in our neighborhoods and communities.

On the plus side, DD is a very well-rounded, prefers to be one of the better students in GE than perhaps struggle in AAP, is well prepared for the challenges of middle school, has chosen to take some honors courses because this is now available to her and plans to pursue a science-related career. She also has plenty of time for extra-curricular activities (sports, music, art). DD is a happy and well-adjusted child and no doubt will be successful, even without elementary AAP "services".

[Anonymous]

Are there center schools that encourage/facilitate GE and AAP classes mixing for specials, or activities like putting on a play? I hope that is the case at our center school. Our 2nd grader was accepted to AAP. He has made many good friends - really nice, kind kids. We'd like to see him keep up those friendships, regardless of what track each kid is on.

Also, just wondering if parents tell their kids that they are smart? We avoid telling our children they are smart; we are trying to focus on work ethic, i.e., something they can control. Even if kid is a prodigy, what good comes from saying "you're so smart"???

[Anonymous]

There is no standard across Fairfax County on how the Gen Ed and AAP students interact. Some schools have zero integration. Some have pods that allow the two groups to mix at specials, recess and lunch. Other schools have adopted the AAP curriculum across Gen Ed and AAP. Without a standard you'll have to find out what your particular Center school does.

If you ask me it is crazy that there is no best practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are there center schools that encourage/facilitate GE and AAP classes mixing for specials, or activities like putting on a play? I hope that is the case at our center school.

Yes.

Sangster.

The kids are grouped AAP/non AAP for core subjects. Each group rotates between their two-four teachers for these subjects.

They are mixed together for all specials. All activities are open enrollment to all students, although there are a handful like Science Olympiad that end up with only AAP kids showing up for the meeting and joining the team. There is a nice mix for things like the musical, chess club, robotics, etc.

Lunch is assigned with a few tables per each class. Recess is together. Field trips are together, although to keep the logistics simple, the busses are assigned by class. The sixth graders for example go on a field trip to a ropes/team building course. They are divided into teams that has students from all classes on each team.

The fifth graders do a big end of year project together where they are assigned small groups with an almost even mix of AAP/non AAP kids from a variety of classes.

The parents mingle together for volunteer activities, PTA and the like. When the parents interact, it is not about who is/is not in AAP. We talk about the musical, or the sports teams or bookfair or the hundreds of other things that define our kids.

The kids mostly hang out socially with the kids from their class (I think this is the norm in elementary whether or not the school has AAP), but they have friends in the different groups and hang out with each other at recess and specials.

Judging from the projects displayed at the school and on the walls, it appears to me that the non-AAP classes follow much of the same curriculum and major projects as the AAP kids, especially in the mid and lower grades.

If you talk to the teachers and administration, they will openly tell you that they are making a conscious effort to run the school so that all the kids are Sangster kids, and not AAP/non AAP kids.

I cannot speak to how effective their efforts are for the non AAP families, but I can say that as an AAP parent I greatly appreciate the efforts they have made to make all of us feel like we are part of the school community. From my side, we are not interlopers or invaders, but just another Sangster family.

I have other kids not in AAP at the base school, and I can't imagine how it must feel for these kids who are at some of these other centers where there is such a divide between kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are there center schools that encourage/facilitate GE and AAP classes mixing for specials, or activities like putting on a play? I hope that is the case at our center school.

Yes.

Sangster.

The kids are grouped AAP/non AAP for core subjects. Each group rotates between their two-four teachers for these subjects.

They are mixed together for all specials. All activities are open enrollment to all students, although there are a handful like Science Olympiad that end up with only AAP kids showing up for the meeting and joining the team. There is a nice mix for things like the musical, chess club, robotics, etc.

Lunch is assigned with a few tables per each class. Recess is together. Field trips are together, although to keep the logistics simple, the busses are assigned by class. The sixth graders for example go on a field trip to a ropes/team building course. They are divided into teams that has students from all classes on each team.

The fifth graders do a big end of year project together where they are assigned small groups with an almost even mix of AAP/non AAP kids from a variety of classes.

The parents mingle together for volunteer activities, PTA and the like. When the parents interact, it is not about who is/is not in AAP. We talk about the musical, or the sports teams or bookfair or the hundreds of other things that define our kids.

The kids mostly hang out socially with the kids from their class (I think this is the norm in elementary whether or not the school has AAP), but they have friends in the different groups and hang out with each other at recess and specials.

Judging from the projects displayed at the school and on the walls, it appears to me that the non-AAP classes follow much of the same curriculum and major projects as the AAP kids, especially in the mid and lower grades.

If you talk to the teachers and administration, they will openly tell you that they are making a conscious effort to run the school so that all the kids are Sangster kids, and not AAP/non AAP kids.

I cannot speak to how effective their efforts are for the non AAP families, but I can say that as an AAP parent I greatly appreciate the efforts they have made to make all of us feel like we are part of the school community. From my side, we are not interlopers or invaders, but just another Sangster family.

I have other kids not in AAP at the base school, and I can't imagine how it must feel for these kids who are at some of these other centers where there is such a divide between kids.

[Anonymous]

Mantua is run similar to what PP described for Sangster. Main difference I see is that lunch is open seating across the entire grade. Since they do lunch and then recess back to back, kids get a fair amount of time to spend with friends in other classrooms, whether those are GE or AAP. Also, all specials and electives (like Chorus and Strings) are mixed regardless of GE vs. AAP placement.

[Anonymous]

So, Sangster, Mantua...any others?

[Anonymous]

Sangster is fantastic, I don't know who does it as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mantua is run similar to what PP described for Sangster. Main difference I see is that lunch is open seating across the entire grade. Since they do lunch and then recess back to back, kids get a fair amount of time to spend with friends in other classrooms, whether those are GE or AAP. Also, all specials and electives (like Chorus and Strings) are mixed regardless of GE vs. AAP placement.

Another Mantua poster here. I second that. The description is virtually identical to that of the Sangster PP. In fact, my DC and his best friend ended up in separate classrooms after second grade so it was really good that we had specials, recess, etc. together. This year his friend got into AAP so they're back in the same classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anyone other than Manua or Sangster?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a GE student in a center school. The school has more AAP classes than GE classes. Some grades have a 5-2 split, others have a 4-3 split.

I don't see any different behavioral issues with the GE students and AAP students. Since the kids were in the same classes K-2, I can't say that the best or worst were disproportionately selected for AAP. Well and poor behaved are in both.

I would say the most difficult aspect for the school is the divide between the children. They are in separate classes. The specials are only with the children in their class. They eat lunch together, but are in assigned sits with children from their class. This creates a huge division in the school. My GE student is not really friends with many of his friends from K-2 that are now in AAP.

The biggest issue for our GE student is his feelings about himself. He received pull-outs for math and language arts in 1st and 2nd (and still does as a Level III student). Since he was getting pull-outs in 1st and 2nd, he believed he was one of the smarter students in the class. He now feels he's not very smart. It has been a struggle for us to keep up his self-esteem with regard to school. We try not to dwell on the issue, and tell him he is smart. In truth, he scored in the 80th and 90th percentile on the screening tests. He just struggles with believing us when we tell him since more kids in his school are in AAP than in GE.

I could have written all of the above. Totally agree, especially re: behavioral issues. There are poorly behaved kids in all schools and classes, regardless of AAP/GE "designation".

Having a GE child at a center school is, frankly, the pits. The kids were all friends in K-2, showing no noticeable differences. Then, all of a sudden, 3rd grade rolls around and they are completely segregated. The principal tries to make it seem all sunny by noting how the kids are "mixed" in specials, but it doesn't really make a difference; by then, all the kids know who is AAP and who is GE and that division follows them all the way through elementary school. The assigned seating at lunch is the worst; then the kids can't even sit with friends in other classes. It makes no sense.

These children are too similar to be dividing them up as early as third grade; or ever, in my opinion. Yes, advanced classes need to be offered, but to any student who is capable of doing the work, and there are so many extremely bright and capable kids in GE.

AAP has created such a divide among the kids and parents, something that you didn't see a few years ago when it was GT and the numbers accepted were far smaller. FCPS should be ashamed at the way in which they have labeled and segregated these very similar kids into two separate groups.

[Anonymous]

Previous poster - what is your school?