Does anyone have an "average" child in AAP?

[Anonymous]

I'm calling "average" as someone who didn't make the cut offs on the COGAT and NNAT so this child would have to have been referred.

How did your referral process go? Why do you believe your child needs AAP?
Would love to hear from folks who put in for a referral and while waiting for a decision (either from a referral or an appeal), found out that their kid was only average on the WISC.

If your child is average but is in AAP, how is he/she doing?

[Anonymous]

I referred DD several years ago. By you definition, more than half of AAP students are "average". By DD's test scores were 118-122.

We referred because for various reasons, we believed the scores were not representative of her ability. We talked to the AAP resource teacher who strongly encouraged us to refer.

The process is just like it is listed in the FCPS web sight. On the advice of the AAP resource teacher, we did not mention the tests. Rather, we emphasized how DD reacts....advanced humor, scientific curiosity, etc.

The thing is the tests are only accurate at measuring how well the kids do on the test that day. My DD used to get a lot of test anxiety. Particularly when the teacher could not answer a question she had --- DD did not understand an instruction. Teacher mentioned that at the parental conference even before we (or she) saw the scores.

DD is now in the 6th grade and is doing fine. And this year, now that they are getting in to more symbolic math (algibraish stuff), she is even excelling in maths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I referred DD several years ago. By you definition, more than half of AAP students are "average". By DD's test scores were 118-122.

We referred because for various reasons, we believed the scores were not representative of her ability. We talked to the AAP resource teacher who strongly encouraged us to refer.

The process is just like it is listed in the FCPS web sight. On the advice of the AAP resource teacher, we did not mention the tests. Rather, we emphasized how DD reacts....advanced humor, scientific curiosity, etc.

The thing is the tests are only accurate at measuring how well the kids do on the test that day. My DD used to get a lot of test anxiety. Particularly when the teacher could not answer a question she had --- DD did not understand an instruction. Teacher mentioned that at the parental conference even before we (or she) saw the scores.

DD is now in the 6th grade and is doing fine. And this year, now that they are getting in to more symbolic math (algibraish stuff), she is even excelling in maths.

classic. Just classic. AAP full of kids whose parents know better than the test scores and GBRS.

[Anonymous]

Imagine how well so many bright GE kids could do if they were offered the same advanced curriculum! Sad, that the calculus is often how pushy your parents are...

How FCPS is able to get away with this blows my mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Imagine how well so many bright GE kids could do if they were offered the same advanced curriculum! Sad, that the calculus is often how pushy your parents are...

How FCPS is able to get away with this blows my mind.

After reading the prior post I am starting to come around to your point of view. I really am. The pp said the test only measures what a child knows on that day. What a weakness in the process. Wait, but isn't that true of all tests? And wouldn't it be great if any kid could have thier test scores ignored by claiming "test anxiety?"

[Anonymous]

I wish I had pushed for DS to be in it. His scores were in 120s, but I didn't appeal.

Three years later (he's now in 6th), I'm appalled at what he's being taught. His younger DD is in AAP (who very clearly had test scores for it, but IMO, has abilities similar to DS), and her curriculum is so far superior that I feel he's being cheated. Her homework is challenging, she's excited by it, and I'm really seeing her develop. DS never has homework, unless it's something like "find these words in the newspaper" and is completely unchallenged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I referred DD several years ago. By you definition, more than half of AAP students are "average". By DD's test scores were 118-122.

We referred because for various reasons, we believed the scores were not representative of her ability. We talked to the AAP resource teacher who strongly encouraged us to refer.

The process is just like it is listed in the FCPS web sight. On the advice of the AAP resource teacher, we did not mention the tests. Rather, we emphasized how DD reacts....advanced humor, scientific curiosity, etc.

The thing is the tests are only accurate at measuring how well the kids do on the test that day. My DD used to get a lot of test anxiety. Particularly when the teacher could not answer a question she had --- DD did not understand an instruction. Teacher mentioned that at the parental conference even before we (or she) saw the scores.

DD is now in the 6th grade and is doing fine. And this year, now that they are getting in to more symbolic math (algibraish stuff), she is even excelling in maths.

classic. Just classic. AAP full of kids whose parents know better than the test scores and GBRS.

Wait...I did not put the GBRS. The GBRS was 15. The AAP resource teacher and DD's teacher encouraged us to submit. (this was a parental referral, not an appeal).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine how well so many bright GE kids could do if they were offered the same advanced curriculum! Sad, that the calculus is often how pushy your parents are...

How FCPS is able to get away with this blows my mind.

After reading the prior post I am starting to come around to your point of view. I really am. The pp said the test only measures what a child knows on that day. What a weakness in the process. Wait, but isn't that true of all tests? And wouldn't it be great if any kid could have thier test scores ignored by claiming "test anxiety?"

The tests measure something which is a function of intelligence, prior knowledge, and how the kid is feeling. What they want to measure is intelligence. A cold reduces mental acuity. A distraction. Those will all impact the score.

I will not apologize for being an advocate for my child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine how well so many bright GE kids could do if they were offered the same advanced curriculum! Sad, that the calculus is often how pushy your parents are...

How FCPS is able to get away with this blows my mind.

After reading the prior post I am starting to come around to your point of view. I really am. The pp said the test only measures what a child knows on that day. What a weakness in the process. Wait, but isn't that true of all tests? And wouldn't it be great if any kid could have thier test scores ignored by claiming "test anxiety?"

The tests measure something which is a function of intelligence, prior knowledge, and how the kid is feeling. What they want to measure is intelligence. A cold reduces mental acuity. A distraction. Those will all impact the score. I will not apologize for being an advocate for my child.

but this is true for everybody. Do you want 5 extra points if your DC had a cold that day?
The pp is right. The principal factor these days seems to be how pushy the parents want to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish I had pushed for DS to be in it. His scores were in 120s, but I didn't appeal.

Three years later (he's now in 6th), I'm appalled at what he's being taught. His younger DD is in AAP (who very clearly had test scores for it, but IMO, has abilities similar to DS), and her curriculum is so far superior that I feel he's being cheated. Her homework is challenging, she's excited by it, and I'm really seeing her develop. DS never has homework, unless it's something like "find these words in the newspaper" and is completely unchallenged.

I have one in AAP and one is GE and I agree that GE sucks compared to AAP and many GE kids could handle the AAP curriculum. But isn't the answer to improve GE, not push the "lucky" kids who have parents that have the knowledge, time and inclination to advocate for them into AAP and leave the other bright kids behind in GE?

[Anonymous]

PP here.

I am an expert in my field. I do a lot of data analysis. When understanding the data, there is signal and there is noise. In the case of using the CogAT as an IQ test, there are multiple noise sources. The signal is IQ. Noise includes test prep, and many other factors, which include mood, anxiety, ADD, distractions, etc.

In the case of these scores, any individual test can vary by 30 points in either direction.

At a personal level, I have had my IQ measured about 15 times (some as part of an experiment: my grad school roommate was a psych major). At my best, I scored a 165. Once. At my worst (in a test used for middle school placement), and scores 118. More typically, I score between 135 and 155. The funny thing is I can tell when I am sharp and when I am not, and my assessment correlates with my score.

This variance is on an adult. Probably an intelligent (AAP worthy) adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Imagine how well so many bright GE kids could do if they were offered the same advanced curriculum! Sad, that the calculus is often how pushy your parents are...

How FCPS is able to get away with this blows my mind.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here.

I am an expert in my field. I do a lot of data analysis. When understanding the data, there is signal and there is noise. In the case of using the CogAT as an IQ test, there are multiple noise sources. The signal is IQ. Noise includes test prep, and many other factors, which include mood, anxiety, ADD, distractions, etc.

In the case of these scores, any individual test can vary by 30 points in either direction.

At a personal level, I have had my IQ measured about 15 times (some as part of an experiment: my grad school roommate was a psych major). At my best, I scored a 165. Once. At my worst (in a test used for middle school placement), and scores 118. More typically, I score between 135 and 155. The funny thing is I can tell when I am sharp and when I am not, and my assessment correlates with my score.

This variance is on an adult. Probably an intelligent (AAP worthy) adult.

I have a child who has been tested multiple times since he was about 4 through the IEP process for SN. His scores have varied so much that I think it is laughable that any system can pin much on one score on one day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here.

I am an expert in my field. I do a lot of data analysis. When understanding the data, there is signal and there is noise. In the case of using the CogAT as an IQ test, there are multiple noise sources. The signal is IQ. Noise includes test prep, and many other factors, which include mood, anxiety, ADD, distractions, etc.

In the case of these scores, any individual test can vary by 30 points in either direction.

At a personal level, I have had my IQ measured about 15 times (some as part of an experiment: my grad school roommate was a psych major). At my best, I scored a 165. Once. At my worst (in a test used for middle school placement), and scores 118. More typically, I score between 135 and 155. The funny thing is I can tell when I am sharp and when I am not, and my assessment correlates with my score.

This variance is on an adult. Probably an intelligent (AAP worthy) adult.

I have a child who has been tested multiple times since he was about 4 through the IEP process for SN. His scores have varied so much that I think it is laughable that any system can pin much on one score on one day.

yes and it has been noted several times if you get a puppy the weekend before the test it will certainly hurt your child's CogAt score. And the FCPS people will not even take into consideration this very valid excuse for poor performance on the test.

[Anonymous]

Except the schools do not put much weight in the score. the scores only matter AAP (in a support role, imho), and bragging rights on the DCUM forums