Can a family of 3 making $165k-170k afford to live in the District?

[Anonymous]

Don't understand why people are so nasty, its a very legitimate question. Assuming 20% down and no debt, yes you will be fine, though you are likely looking at a small three bedroom and/or a fixer-upper. If you have student loan debt (or consumer) equal to $500+ a month and will have to pay mortgage insurance (which is now $300 plus a month), I think it would be tight and be tough to also save for retirement and have an emergency fund. My DH and I make about 50-80k more than that, but feel like we cannot afford to buy a place big enough for more than 2 kids in that school district that is metro accessible (which for us matters, may not for you), given the cost of childcare for multiple kids, possibly increased taxes, etc.. But we also have about $1700 monthly in total student loan debt, so that makes a big difference.
I don't think a poster making 60K is going to give you much perspective, because they likely have very different expenses and options - a friend of mine with a lower income for instance qualified for an ACORN mortgage - 3% down payment, no mortgage insurance, best interest rate. Stuff like that can affect your perception of how far a higher income will take you. Be aware also that DC income taxes may be significantly higher than wherever you are coming from. And of course, talk to people who bought post-boom, not pre-boom, for an assessment of how much that monthly mortgage payment is really likely to sting. Being house-poor is no fun, and DC market may not have bottomed out yet (and I'm a DC homeowner).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP. Sorry for stirring a hornets nest. I just constantly hear that DC is the most expensive place in the nation. We're going to be spending about $1500 a month in daycare which I hear is on the lower side.

DC is MUCH cheaper than NYC or SF or LA.

Have you priced homes in SF or LA recently? They used to be more expensive than DC, but the markets there have dropped a lot while the DC market just keeps bubbling upwards. DC is still cheaper than NYC, but not cheaper than SF or LA anymore.

Yes, in fact, last week because we may be moving to SF. SF is still considerably more expensive than DC. An $800K home in CC DC would cost $1.2 in SF--and the commute would be longer. DC is still cheaper, especially for families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I'm the poster that is living off of 60k with a family of six. I definetely don't live in or around the district but I know people that do on less than 100k. While this woman and some others might be making a strong six figures, we will eventually get there too. My husband and I are likely much younger than most people on this board. We're in our late 20's and have the next 40 years to earn money. My husband is finishing his graduate degree and will continue to earn more money. We don't pay daycare costs. Please also don't assume we have no college fund for our children or plan on having one. We may actually be in a better financial position than others when our kids are ready for college and if we have a HHI of 200-300k at that point but have six family members, we'll be better off than a family with a HHI of 500k with one child. College tuition is skyrocketing and it's my belief that eventually only the rich will be able to afford it. I think all of us worry about rising healthcare costs, college tuition, home prices, etc.
So, yes, OP you can do quite well on that income and renting in Georgetown shouldn't even be out of your league. Good Luck.

You'll be surprised to find that many of the 6-figure households around here broke that ceiling in their late twenties, also from the sound of it, it's four kids. We are around a quarter mil HHI, early 30s, and for financial reasons would never even dream of four kids. We just couldn't provide the personal time and standard of life we value for ourselves and for our children for a family that size. In fact, we delayed a second child till our current child is 3-4 years old for financial security goals.

For you family size, your HHI puts you at the lower income category in Arlington, for example....you would be eligible for housing assistance etc.: http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/CPHD/housing/hpp/CPHDHousingHousing_infoIncomeRent.aspx

How incredibly rude. My spouse and I plan to have at least 4-5 kids (we currently have infant twins). We make about $700k+/ year, but very comfortably live off of what $150K pretax would make (we have a great home in a fantastic neighborhood. We live a very good life and spend real quality time with our kids. And purely because you felt the need to put the PP down, allow me to do the same to you. We made $250K/yr before we were 25 y/o and $500K/yr before we were 30. We are currently younger than you. It is probably your attitude that has kept you at such low pay.

$60K a year for a family of 6 is doable in DC, if you budget. In ward 3, a budget of $170K is very doable if you rent. It is less doable, but if you budget wisely, you can purchase a home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[

How incredibly rude. My spouse and I plan to have at least 4-5 kids (we currently have infant twins). We make about $700k+/ year, but very comfortably live off of what $150K pretax would make (we have a great home in a fantastic neighborhood. We live a very good life and spend real quality time with our kids. And purely because you felt the need to put the PP down, allow me to do the same to you. We made $250K/yr before we were 25 y/o and $500K/yr before we were 30. We are currently younger than you. It is probably your attitude that has kept you at such low pay.

$60K a year for a family of 6 is doable in DC, if you budget. In ward 3, a budget of $170K is very doable if you rent. It is less doable, but if you budget wisely, you can purchase a home.

I'd like to see you crunch the numbers.

1) Rent for a 3-bdr--large enough to fit six twin beds, a bdr for girls, and one for the boys, and a full size bed for the parents (let's assume they're on the small side)?
2) Groceries--and don't forget, kids grow up to be hungry teenagers.
3) Transportation, (car payment, gas, and insurance)--remember, that the vehicle has to be large enough to fit EIGHT (8). If you are assuming that the family has no car, let's assume that that the family rents an apartment near metro instead so up the rent a bit--one or the other.
4) Health Insurance?
5) Dental/eye care for 6 children plus 2 adults (these are not often covered by insurance)?
6) Clothing and shoes--for 6 and 2?
7) School supplies--for 6?

What is the smallest, reasonable sum you come up with? And, for the hell of it, let's assume this family pays no taxes and doesn't have financial savings of any kind.

[Anonymous]

OP, no. Everyone who lives in the District makes over $200k. Sorry. Try Maryland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I'm the poster that is living off of 60k with a family of six. I definetely don't live in or around the district but I know people that do on less than 100k. While this woman and some others might be making a strong six figures, we will eventually get there too. My husband and I are likely much younger than most people on this board. We're in our late 20's and have the next 40 years to earn money. My husband is finishing his graduate degree and will continue to earn more money. We don't pay daycare costs. Please also don't assume we have no college fund for our children or plan on having one. We may actually be in a better financial position than others when our kids are ready for college and if we have a HHI of 200-300k at that point but have six family members, we'll be better off than a family with a HHI of 500k with one child. College tuition is skyrocketing and it's my belief that eventually only the rich will be able to afford it. I think all of us worry about rising healthcare costs, college tuition, home prices, etc.
So, yes, OP you can do quite well on that income and renting in Georgetown shouldn't even be out of your league. Good Luck.

How do you already have 6 children in your 20s? You know you won't have to pay for their college education., so why bother trying to save? I'm also very curious that you assume your DH will be able to make 200 or 300K eventually. A lot of assumptions in your plans.

[Anonymous]

"How incredibly rude. My spouse and I plan to have at least 4-5 kids (we currently have infant twins). We make about $700k+/ year, but very comfortably live off of what $150K pretax would make (we have a great home in a fantastic neighborhood. We live a very good life and spend real quality time with our kids. And purely because you felt the need to put the PP down, allow me to do the same to you. We made $250K/yr before we were 25 y/o and $500K/yr before we were 30. We are currently younger than you. It is probably your attitude that has kept you at such low pay.

$60K a year for a family of 6 is doable in DC, if you budget. In ward 3, a budget of $170K is very doable if you rent. It is less doable, but if you budget wisely, you can purchase a home. "

Let me guess: you bought your "great home" for cash or with a huge downpayment. I'd love to see how you would live in that house truly based on $150K pretax. You're not yet paying for private school. Do you have childcare expenses? Are you considering college savings coming out of that $150K pretax? Are you maxing out your retirement plans and IRAs? What about property taxes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I'm the poster that is living off of 60k with a family of six. I definetely don't live in or around the district but I know people that do on less than 100k. While this woman and some others might be making a strong six figures, we will eventually get there too. My husband and I are likely much younger than most people on this board. We're in our late 20's and have the next 40 years to earn money. My husband is finishing his graduate degree and will continue to earn more money. We don't pay daycare costs. Please also don't assume we have no college fund for our children or plan on having one. We may actually be in a better financial position than others when our kids are ready for college and if we have a HHI of 200-300k at that point but have six family members, we'll be better off than a family with a HHI of 500k with one child. College tuition is skyrocketing and it's my belief that eventually only the rich will be able to afford it. I think all of us worry about rising healthcare costs, college tuition, home prices, etc.
So, yes, OP you can do quite well on that income and renting in Georgetown shouldn't even be out of your league. Good Luck.

You'll be surprised to find that many of the 6-figure households around here broke that ceiling in their late twenties, also from the sound of it, it's four kids. We are around a quarter mil HHI, early 30s, and for financial reasons would never even dream of four kids. We just couldn't provide the personal time and standard of life we value for ourselves and for our children for a family that size. In fact, we delayed a second child till our current child is 3-4 years old for financial security goals.

For you family size, your HHI puts you at the lower income category in Arlington, for example....you would be eligible for housing assistance etc.: http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/CPHD/housing/hpp/CPHDHousingHousing_infoIncomeRent.aspx

How incredibly rude. My spouse and I plan to have at least 4-5 kids (we currently have infant twins). We make about $700k+/ year, but very comfortably live off of what $150K pretax would make (we have a great home in a fantastic neighborhood. We live a very good life and spend real quality time with our kids. And purely because you felt the need to put the PP down, allow me to do the same to you. We made $250K/yr before we were 25 y/o and $500K/yr before we were 30. We are currently younger than you. It is probably your attitude that has kept you at such low pay.

$60K a year for a family of 6 is doable in DC, if you budget. In ward 3, a budget of $170K is very doable if you rent. It is less doable, but if you budget wisely, you can purchase a home.

I'm the PP you're trying to denigrate..I'm 30 in the public policy field, and make $180k...assure you that in my field that is pretty decent pay for a 30-year old. I wasn't trying to put the PP down only responding to their presumptive attitude.

[Anonymous]

op, yes, if that is a single income. it will be much tighter if you are dual income family and need full time childcare.

we bought in AU park on a 190K single income.
Put about 30-35% down on a 1 million dollar house. Mortgage payment (all included) is $3400/month). No other debt of any kind. Able to afford morning preschool for 2 kids at the tune of about 18K/year. Able to save, vacation, eat out, etc and generally lack for nothing. Will use public school next year and feel like we will be rolling in the dough (due to preschool savings).

[Anonymous]

NP here. "Family of six" means four kids, not six.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:op, yes, if that is a single income. it will be much tighter if you are dual income family and need full time childcare.

we bought in AU park on a 190K single income.
Put about 30-35% down on a 1 million dollar house. Mortgage payment (all included) is $3400/month). No other debt of any kind. Able to afford morning preschool for 2 kids at the tune of about 18K/year. Able to save, vacation, eat out, etc and generally lack for nothing. Will use public school next year and feel like we will be rolling in the dough (due to preschool savings).

What do you spend on food and entertainment per month? I guess your net is higher than $100,000 since it's a single income?

[Anonymous]

We make a little more than that (about $220k) and live in CCDC. Our mortgage is about $3500/mo, plus a HELOC for another $150k, now at about $500/mo. We put 20% down, and DH has a small amount of debt from grad school.

We currently pay $1700 in child care for our 1 child but would feel stretched (though not beyond reason) with a second. We're saving aggressively to fix up our small house (partly to make room for a second one day), so we certainly have wiggle room in our budget -- i.e. we could just not save and have tons more to spend. We still spend freely on food, entertainment, travel, clothing, and other small luxuries. (Well, food isn't a luxury...but the stuff I buy isn't cheap.)

We adore our neighborhood and truly wouldn't trade it for any other part of the city. Worth the negligible sacrifice of space and extra spending money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[

How incredibly rude. My spouse and I plan to have at least 4-5 kids (we currently have infant twins). We make about $700k+/ year, but very comfortably live off of what $150K pretax would make (we have a great home in a fantastic neighborhood. We live a very good life and spend real quality time with our kids. And purely because you felt the need to put the PP down, allow me to do the same to you. We made $250K/yr before we were 25 y/o and $500K/yr before we were 30. We are currently younger than you. It is probably your attitude that has kept you at such low pay.

$60K a year for a family of 6 is doable in DC, if you budget. In ward 3, a budget of $170K is very doable if you rent. It is less doable, but if you budget wisely, you can purchase a home.

I'd like to see you crunch the numbers.


1) Rent for a 3-bdr--large enough to fit six twin beds, a bdr for girls, and one for the boys, and a full size bed for the parents (let's assume they're on the small side)?
2) Groceries--and don't forget, kids grow up to be hungry teenagers.
3) Transportation, (car payment, gas, and insurance)--remember, that the vehicle has to be large enough to fit EIGHT (8). If you are assuming that the family has no car, let's assume that that the family rents an apartment near metro instead so up the rent a bit--one or the other.
4) Health Insurance?
5) Dental/eye care for 6 children plus 2 adults (these are not often covered by insurance)?
6) Clothing and shoes--for 6 and 2?
7) School supplies--for 6?

What is the smallest, reasonable sum you come up with? And, for the hell of it, let's assume this family pays no taxes and doesn't have financial savings of any kind.

I'll bite. We live in dupont in a 2 unit house we bought for 1.2m. We put down 10% which we got from our first place. Mtg is a little under $6000. Tenants pay $3250 leaving us with $2750 for a 3 bedroom and den. Add utilities and you get $3 k roughly

Grocery is one block from us say $150 per week. $1000 per month with eating out

Don't own a car. Everything is walking distance including work $200 per month for zip car and taxis

Health insurance is 75 % paid by employer and runs $200 per month. Call it $400 with co pays

Dental and eye are another $50 per month (employer pays 75 %). Call it $150 with co pays

That brings me to $4750 excluding clothing, school supplies savings 401k and college

I think $150 k pre tax and homeowner would have me taking home $7k after maxing $401k, maybe more

Does that not work? And comfortably?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[

How incredibly rude. My spouse and I plan to have at least 4-5 kids (we currently have infant twins). We make about $700k+/ year, but very comfortably live off of what $150K pretax would make (we have a great home in a fantastic neighborhood. We live a very good life and spend real quality time with our kids. And purely because you felt the need to put the PP down, allow me to do the same to you. We made $250K/yr before we were 25 y/o and $500K/yr before we were 30. We are currently younger than you. It is probably your attitude that has kept you at such low pay.

$60K a year for a family of 6 is doable in DC, if you budget. In ward 3, a budget of $170K is very doable if you rent. It is less doable, but if you budget wisely, you can purchase a home.

I'd like to see you crunch the numbers.

1) Rent for a 3-bdr--large enough to fit six twin beds, a bdr for girls, and one for the boys, and a full size bed for the parents (let's assume they're on the small side)?
2) Groceries--and don't forget, kids grow up to be hungry teenagers.
3) Transportation, (car payment, gas, and insurance)--remember, that the vehicle has to be large enough to fit EIGHT (8). If you are assuming that the family has no car, let's assume that that the family rents an apartment near metro instead so up the rent a bit--one or the other.
4) Health Insurance?
5) Dental/eye care for 6 children plus 2 adults (these are not often covered by insurance)?
6) Clothing and shoes--for 6 and 2?
7) School supplies--for 6?

What is the smallest, reasonable sum you come up with? And, for the hell of it, let's assume this family pays no taxes and doesn't have financial savings of any kind.

Pp here. For a family of 6 I would buy in deadwood a $200k house. I'd use hpap and tax abatement. My mortgage would be about $900. It would buy a 5 bedroom home.

Brings my monthlies down $1950 to $2800 add $200 for monthly bus passes, even though I probably would cab or zip car much.

$3000 per month total. . . And I would pay almost no tax

Does that not work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'll bite. We live in dupont in a 2 unit house we bought for 1.2m. We put down 10% which we got from our first place. Mtg is a little under $6000. Tenants pay $3250 leaving us with $2750 for a 3 bedroom and den. Add utilities and you get $3 k roughly

Grocery is one block from us say $150 per week. $1000 per month with eating out

Don't own a car. Everything is walking distance including work $200 per month for zip car and taxis

Health insurance is 75 % paid by employer and runs $200 per month. Call it $400 with co pays

Dental and eye are another $50 per month (employer pays 75 %). Call it $150 with co pays

That brings me to $4750 excluding clothing, school supplies savings 401k and college

I think $150 k pre tax and homeowner would have me taking home $7k after maxing $401k, maybe more

Does that not work? And comfortably?

It works fine, but you couldn't do it if you started today. You can't buy that 2-unit property in Dupont for $1.2 million today. Even if you could, you can't buy a $1.2 million property with only 10% down today: no one will do a jumbo mortgage with 10% down. And even if you could find a bank that would, you'd need more than $150K in pretax income to qualify for the loan.