AP Calculus - AB or BC - Which to Take?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fascinating to me that APS (?) is directing kids to take Calculus AB junior year followed by BC senior year. Am I reading your post correctly? Why? BC is an offshoot of Calculus AB since all of the topics in Calculus AB are also included in Calculus BC, plus some. It’s basically taking the class over again plus some additional material. I view this as an admission that they are accelerating too many kids. Kids get to junior year and aren’t ready for BC Calc so this is the solution?

Yes, that is exactly what they recommend and what most students do. I find it very odd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fascinating to me that APS (?) is directing kids to take Calculus AB junior year followed by BC senior year. Am I reading your post correctly? Why? BC is an offshoot of Calculus AB since all of the topics in Calculus AB are also included in Calculus BC, plus some. It’s basically taking the class over again plus some additional material. I view this as an admission that they are accelerating too many kids. Kids get to junior year and aren’t ready for BC Calc so this is the solution?

DP Not necessarily. To be well prepared to go from precalc directly to BC, you need to start accelerating BC-bound students in Algebra 2. Then, precalc content can be compressed and introductory calculus content introduced in the second half of precalc. This makes the pace of BC itself less rushed. This approach has worked well for decades. However, there is a growing movement to avoid tracking in math classes and to structure courses so that students can enter accelerated pathways at any point. But that means less content gets covered before BC and BC becomes more rushed. The concern with AP Precalc is that will not permit sufficient introductory calculus content to be covered pre-BC. Therefore, BC pacing becomes more aggressive and students can start to struggle.

Other districts also do the Precalc-AB-BC pathway so APS is not alone there. But AP Precalc may potentially make it more challenging to go AP Precalc - BC which may incline more students to use AB as intermediary step. That doesn't mean acceleration has failed. It means the preparation for acceleration to BC is lacking.

[Anonymous]

If your child is a very strong math student have them go directly into BC. They will be bored in AB.

My older child did the BC and multivariable sequence. Was challenged and very happy.

My younger child took AB instead. Was bored to tears. Material moves slowly compared to previous years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fascinating to me that APS (?) is directing kids to take Calculus AB junior year followed by BC senior year. Am I reading your post correctly? Why? BC is an offshoot of Calculus AB since all of the topics in Calculus AB are also included in Calculus BC, plus some. It’s basically taking the class over again plus some additional material. I view this as an admission that they are accelerating too many kids. Kids get to junior year and aren’t ready for BC Calc so this is the solution?

Yes, that is exactly what they recommend and what most students do. I find it very odd.

Which school is recommending this? And after which course?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He doesn't need classes higher than BC for admissions to engineering.

I also thought the AB/BC sequence was weird when it was recommended for my son, a very strong math student. But he took the math teacher's advice and did that. As I understand it, the way APS teaches it, BC class blows through the review of AB concepts really quickly to get to new material. Also, keep in mind he'll likely have other challenging classes too. Junior year is hard. A slightly easier math class, and then more review early in senior year while in the midst of applications can be a better balance.

You will get a more solid understanding of calculus doing the sequence. And that is far more important going into a math heavy major. With 5s on the AB and BC tests, DS skipped Calc 1 at VT but took Calc 2 in college for review and to be sure he understood it the way VT teaches it. Got an A (and As in the subsequent math classes) while many students struggled. Don't rush through math classes.

Thank you. This is very helpful feedback and advice. We had heard that you need to take the highest level math sequence available at your school for the competitive engineering programs (which, at APS, is MV/Linear Alegebra), but you make very good points. The reason I think he is even remotely struggling with this decision is because, in our experience, APS routinely directs students to easier routes/pathways versus the more challenging routes/pathways. For example, after taking Algebra 2 in 9th grade and getting a very high A, his teacher/counselor recommended that he take Algebra 3 instead of Pre-calc in 10th grade! I told him to ignore his teacher/counselor and sign up for Pre-Calc because their advice was absurd. This was obviously the right decision. He would have been bored to tears in Algebra 3. APS also discouraged him from taking too many higher-level courses/APs his sophomore year but he took them anyway and knocked it out of the park. Junior year will definitely be harder but he has the bandwidth for more work. He did not feel like he had to work very hard this year.

Did he take regular pre calc or AP pre calc this year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have an APS senior. All the strongest math students take AP Calc BC junior year. Then the ones headed to STEM majors in college take MV Calc AP senior year, while some of the others decide to pursue other things like AP Stats.

The decision really depends on which track the kid is on. For many years, the class before calc was either pre calc or pre calc intensified. The intensified class prepared the students to go right into AP Calc BC by teaching most of Calc A, and then I think they probably did a quick review in the beginning of Calc BC.

Now I am hoping the same is true with the new PreCalcAP curriculum, as I have a younger kid now on this track who also wants to take BC.

This is my experience in APS, I'm sure other schools differ. But the question is whether the track your kid is on has prepared them to jump into Calc BC or not. So ask that question.

Which school?

[Anonymous]

[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fascinating to me that APS (?) is directing kids to take Calculus AB junior year followed by BC senior year. Am I reading your post correctly? Why? BC is an offshoot of Calculus AB since all of the topics in Calculus AB are also included in Calculus BC, plus some. It’s basically taking the class over again plus some additional material. I view this as an admission that they are accelerating too many kids. Kids get to junior year and aren’t ready for BC Calc so this is the solution?

DP Not necessarily. To be well prepared to go from precalc directly to BC, you need to start accelerating BC-bound students in Algebra 2. Then, precalc content can be compressed and introductory calculus content introduced in the second half of precalc. This makes the pace of BC itself less rushed. This approach has worked well for decades. However, there is a growing movement to avoid tracking in math classes and to structure courses so that students can enter accelerated pathways at any point. But that means less content gets covered before BC and BC becomes more rushed. The concern with AP Precalc is that will not permit sufficient introductory calculus content to be covered pre-BC. Therefore, BC pacing becomes more aggressive and students can start to struggle.

Other districts also do the Precalc-AB-BC pathway so APS is not alone there. But AP Precalc may potentially make it more challenging to go AP Precalc - BC which may incline more students to use AB as intermediary step. That doesn't mean acceleration has failed. It means the preparation for acceleration to BC is lacking.

This. Plus, the peer group in these classes matter. The students in my kid’s accelerated math class were off the charts, which made it not a good fit for her. Slowing down and doing Calc AB in 11th puts her with strong math students, but not math dynamos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fascinating to me that APS (?) is directing kids to take Calculus AB junior year followed by BC senior year. Am I reading your post correctly? Why? BC is an offshoot of Calculus AB since all of the topics in Calculus AB are also included in Calculus BC, plus some. It’s basically taking the class over again plus some additional material. I view this as an admission that they are accelerating too many kids. Kids get to junior year and aren’t ready for BC Calc so this is the solution?

DP Not necessarily. To be well prepared to go from precalc directly to BC, you need to start accelerating BC-bound students in Algebra 2. Then, precalc content can be compressed and introductory calculus content introduced in the second half of precalc. This makes the pace of BC itself less rushed. This approach has worked well for decades. However, there is a growing movement to avoid tracking in math classes and to structure courses so that students can enter accelerated pathways at any point. But that means less content gets covered before BC and BC becomes more rushed. The concern with AP Precalc is that will not permit sufficient introductory calculus content to be covered pre-BC. Therefore, BC pacing becomes more aggressive and students can start to struggle.

Other districts also do the Precalc-AB-BC pathway so APS is not alone there. But AP Precalc may potentially make it more challenging to go AP Precalc - BC which may incline more students to use AB as intermediary step. That doesn't mean acceleration has failed. It means the preparation for acceleration to BC is lacking.

This. Plus, the peer group in these classes matter. The students in my kid’s accelerated math class were off the charts, which made it not a good fit for her. Slowing down and doing Calc AB in 11th puts her with strong math students, but not math dynamos.

The truth is your child should not have been accelerated. She doesn’t need to take Calculus twice because she is probably a smart kid.

[Anonymous]

A bit of a different take. Given that your student is interested in engineering, what is their interest in taking AP Physics (either mech or E&M)? If they are an engineering major, and they want to take AP Physics, they should considering taking BC Calc jr year.. Because usually you can't take AP physics without being concurrently in at least BC (or finishing it). Taking BC Calc in jr year would give an option to take AP physics jr or (better yet) sr year.

But if AP Physics isn't of interest, then doing AB or BC can be its own independent decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have an APS senior. All the strongest math students take AP Calc BC junior year. Then the ones headed to STEM majors in college take MV Calc AP senior year, while some of the others decide to pursue other things like AP Stats.

The decision really depends on which track the kid is on. For many years, the class before calc was either pre calc or pre calc intensified. The intensified class prepared the students to go right into AP Calc BC by teaching most of Calc A, and then I think they probably did a quick review in the beginning of Calc BC.

Now I am hoping the same is true with the new PreCalcAP curriculum, as I have a younger kid now on this track who also wants to take BC.

This is my experience in APS, I'm sure other schools differ. But the question is whether the track your kid is on has prepared them to jump into Calc BC or not. So ask that question.

Which school?

all of them as far as I know.

[Anonymous]

An E School will be very happy with Calculus BC in senior year from an admissions perspective.

If DC takes either AP Calc exam the year before and gets a good AP score (i.e., 4 or 5) then it would strengthen the E School application.

[Anonymous]

Most districts recommend either AP Calculus AB or AP Calculus BC after precalculus rather than going through both sequentially. But a few seem to follow the slower route

[Anonymous]

If this is a strong math student who wants to do engineering, I'd suggest BC junior year followed by multivariable senior year. And yes to the person who suggested AP physics senior year. Engineering is a really competitive major so most schools will want to see highest available math for that particular school. However, if the student does not have a natural affinity for math, then it's probably best to tone it down to AB followed by BC. Junior year is tough so every student needs to take stress and time management into account.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He doesn't need classes higher than BC for admissions to engineering.

I also thought the AB/BC sequence was weird when it was recommended for my son, a very strong math student. But he took the math teacher's advice and did that. As I understand it, the way APS teaches it, BC class blows through the review of AB concepts really quickly to get to new material. Also, keep in mind he'll likely have other challenging classes too. Junior year is hard. A slightly easier math class, and then more review early in senior year while in the midst of applications can be a better balance.

You will get a more solid understanding of calculus doing the sequence. And that is far more important going into a math heavy major. With 5s on the AB and BC tests, DS skipped Calc 1 at VT but took Calc 2 in college for review and to be sure he understood it the way VT teaches it. Got an A (and As in the subsequent math classes) while many students struggled. Don't rush through math classes.

Thank you. This is very helpful feedback and advice. We had heard that you need to take the highest level math sequence available at your school for the competitive engineering programs (which, at APS, is MV/Linear Alegebra), but you make very good points. The reason I think he is even remotely struggling with this decision is because, in our experience, APS routinely directs students to easier routes/pathways versus the more challenging routes/pathways. For example, after taking Algebra 2 in 9th grade and getting a very high A, his teacher/counselor recommended that he take Algebra 3 instead of Pre-calc in 10th grade! I told him to ignore his teacher/counselor and sign up for Pre-Calc because their advice was absurd. This was obviously the right decision. He would have been bored to tears in Algebra 3. APS also discouraged him from taking too many higher-level courses/APs his sophomore year but he took them anyway and knocked it out of the park. Junior year will definitely be harder but he has the bandwidth for more work. He did not feel like he had to work very hard this year.

Ignorant gunner parents spread the myth that colleges care about post-AP math. They dont. It happens (not entirely a coincidence) that students who have national level extracurricular achievements in math (which does impress colleges) also often have post-AP math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this is a strong math student who wants to do engineering, I'd suggest BC junior year followed by multivariable senior year. And yes to the person who suggested AP physics senior year. Engineering is a really competitive major so most schools will want to see highest available math for that particular school. However, if the student does not have a natural affinity for math, then it's probably best to tone it down to AB followed by BC. Junior year is tough so every student needs to take stress and time management into account.

Myth myth myth.