Smart ADHD 5th grader with strange math struggles

[Anonymous]

My generally-above-grade-level ADHD 5th grader has a very odd math profile. DC is at an MCPS CES program and in compacted math. MAP-M scores have been in the high 80th to mid 90th percentile for years, with a couple coming in at 98+pctl. DC definitely has a lot of math anxiety and struggled last year with a teacher who loved speed drills, and math homework always provokes extreme anxiety/tears. But from what we can tell, DC understands the material well, and math grades are usually good. However, there have been several tests with an unexpected C or D, and the errors are from things like mixing up plus/minus or multiply/divide, swapping place values, or missing steps especially in word problems, and sometimes doing the work correctly but then selecting a multiple-choice answer that clearly doesn't match their work. The mistakes are not consistent, either - for example when asked to multiply two mixed number fractions, the first one they did correctly, but the very next one they added the whole numbers and multiplied the fractions (2 5/8 x 7 1/3 became 9 5/24).

Is this just the ADHD and anxiety at work, or is there possibly something else here we should look into? I've heard of dyscalculia, but it doesn't seem to fully line up. I doubt they will go into a math-heavy career, but when we've tried slowing math down in the past (or doing extra practice at home), the boredom/repetition makes things even worse. Anything else we can do to help?

(Not currently medicated but we will probably look into it soon.)

(I want to reiterate that we have tried extra practice/worksheets/drills at home and it Does. Not. Help. The extreme distress it provokes will reverberate for hours or days, and it doesn't even measurably improve math facts recall or reduce errors. We want to *reduce* anxiety around math, not increase it.)

[Anonymous]

It’s the ADHD- it’s hard to sustain focus for the length of time required to do math especially the Eureka way.

One thing that helped in our house was running math facts. If you have to pause your train of thought to sing a song to know what 6x6 is, then it’s hard to pick up the thoughts again without making an error (and a different one every time, like you noticed). Schools don’t emphasize facts anymore and that works for NT kids but ADHD kids get too distracted. We would do like two minute drills while brushing hair in the morning - nothing formal and nothing written. But it helped slightly.

[Anonymous]

ADHD Adult here who had math issues. I did a lot better on math exams when I was given extra time and I could talk out the problems. I needed the verbal component to slow down my thought process and help me not skip steps and the like.

[Anonymous]

Teach them steps to 1) read each problem twice 2) check their work. Don’t avoid doing math just because it’s difficult, do it more so it becomes easier. Agree with pp about ensuring fluency. Find different ways to practice that aren’t worksheets and drills.

[Anonymous]

MEDICATE YOUR CHILD. It will make a world of difference.

For the dyscalculia, only a neuropsych can tease this out, OP.

My ADHD son always struggled in math. He was diagnosed with dyscalculia at 10 years old (at his first full neuropsych, previously he'd just had a shorter eval to diagnose ADHD). At 17, when he did a second neuropsych to get accommodations for college, the same psychologist told us she could not detect dyscalculia anymore. My son has always been supported in math, first by me in elementary and middle, then by math tutors to prep for AP exams and the ACT. I suspect that since he went up to AP Calc BC, he had enough knowledge to appear not dyscalculic? I don't know. He still says math in college is his most challenging subject (required class, "math for politicians" in his international affairs major!).

So. Make of that what you will, but the bottom line, for me, is that extra support in math can push your kid to achieve a decent math track, even when he starts out with a disability. BUT ONLY WITH MEDICATION. Otherwise, forget it. His brain was not available to learn, and was gallivanting somewhere in history books.

[Anonymous]

It could be dyscalculia too. Math reasoning can be high but confusing of the numbers or steps can be dyscalculia that is harder to detect until the math gets harder

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ADHD Adult here who had math issues. I did a lot better on math exams when I was given extra time and I could talk out the problems. I needed the verbal component to slow down my thought process and help me not skip steps and the like.

OP here and I think this may be exactly it. She does seem to do better at math out loud and sometimes even in her head, vs written down. She already has extra time, but what sort of accommodation would help with the verbal part?

[Anonymous]

My ADHD kid makes careless mistakes in math all the time. Multiplying when she should be adding, reversing numbers. She doesn’t have any disability that explains it - it’s just the adhd. Sorry no real words of advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MEDICATE YOUR CHILD. It will make a world of difference.

For the dyscalculia, only a neuropsych can tease this out, OP.

My ADHD son always struggled in math. He was diagnosed with dyscalculia at 10 years old (at his first full neuropsych, previously he'd just had a shorter eval to diagnose ADHD). At 17, when he did a second neuropsych to get accommodations for college, the same psychologist told us she could not detect dyscalculia anymore. My son has always been supported in math, first by me in elementary and middle, then by math tutors to prep for AP exams and the ACT. I suspect that since he went up to AP Calc BC, he had enough knowledge to appear not dyscalculic? I don't know. He still says math in college is his most challenging subject (required class, "math for politicians" in his international affairs major!).

So. Make of that what you will, but the bottom line, for me, is that extra support in math can push your kid to achieve a decent math track, even when he starts out with a disability. BUT ONLY WITH MEDICATION. Otherwise, forget it. His brain was not available to learn, and was gallivanting somewhere in history books.

Women with ADHD and some math struggles (needed lots of prep for SAT) who went to an Ivy. I would recommend medication and maybe kumon if you have the $$. Kumon was great for me - very focusing and builds confidence and competence. I also understand that with your daughter’s profile kumon might increase anxiety. May be worth having her check it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My ADHD kid makes careless mistakes in math all the time. Multiplying when she should be adding, reversing numbers. She doesn’t have any disability that explains it - it’s just the adhd. Sorry no real words of advice.

Our ADHD kid too. Still doing this in high school. It's hard enough to get the concepts but once those are solid DC still gets the problems wrong due to not being able to read their own writing or forgetting to copy one expression down in the equation and all the kinds of things OP mentioned. I don't usually recommend rote math but something doing workbooks might help because it forces your child to do a lot of problems until it becomes second nature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ADHD Adult here who had math issues. I did a lot better on math exams when I was given extra time and I could talk out the problems. I needed the verbal component to slow down my thought process and help me not skip steps and the like.

OP here and I think this may be exactly it. She does seem to do better at math out loud and sometimes even in her head, vs written down. She already has extra time, but what sort of accommodation would help with the verbal part?

I took all of my tests in the resource room or a room by myself where I could talk out loud to myself. Sometimes it was a classroom across the hall where my Teacher could see me, sometimes it was a conference room, sometimes it was the resource room.

I also had dyscalculia and dyslexia but the math scores really didn't improve until I started taking tests solo where I could talk out the problems. Even verbally saying each step as I wrote it down helped because it forced me to slow down. I learned to read the question out loud once, then to ask out loud what are they asking for, then underline that bit, then ask myself what are the important bits that are needed to answer the question, and underline those parts. The extra time gave me the time to do that verbally and then write it down and then double check my answers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My ADHD kid makes careless mistakes in math all the time. Multiplying when she should be adding, reversing numbers. She doesn’t have any disability that explains it - it’s just the adhd. Sorry no real words of advice.

That's dyslexia not ADHD.

[Anonymous]

I could have written this about my 6th grade DC!! We are waiting on psychoeducational testing results so I’m not sure what the issue is just yet. Will post back when we get them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ADHD kid makes careless mistakes in math all the time. Multiplying when she should be adding, reversing numbers. She doesn’t have any disability that explains it - it’s just the adhd. Sorry no real words of advice.

That's dyslexia not ADHD.

Well it's primarily ADHD, then possibly dyscalculia or dyslexia. Often ADHD is the anchor diagnosis, and there are associated LDs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ADHD kid makes careless mistakes in math all the time. Multiplying when she should be adding, reversing numbers. She doesn’t have any disability that explains it - it’s just the adhd. Sorry no real words of advice.

That's dyslexia not ADHD.

No, not necessarily. Dyslexia is a complex condition (as is ADHD), so let’s not jump to conclusions. Many ADHDers who have ruled out dyslexia have similar problems due only to ADHD.