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Reply to "Gaza War, Part 3"
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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Israel has slaughtered 32,000 Palestinians since 10/7. Congratulations to Israel, Bibi and the Zionists for turning the world against Jews. [/quote] Nobody should be against Jews. People can and should hate the Zionists all they want, but let's never judge anyone based on their religion or ethnicity. Zionists have perverted Judaism for personal gain and power and have weaponized it to dehumanize and massacre Palestinians. Zionism is undoubtedly a hideous and racist creed, but please, let's recognize the difference between Jews and Zionists. Many Jews hate Zionism. [/quote] Well, when are Jews going to oust Bibi and his right wing religious minions? [/quote] Chuck Schumer, the most powerful Jew in American politics called for his ouster in a compelling and passionate speech. Sadly I'm not hearing a damn thing similar to that from powerful and influential Muslims calling for the ouster of Hamas leadership.[/quote] I mean, isn't Israel supposedly ousting Hamas and its leadership? Or is that goal no longer on the agenda?[/quote] You seem confused. It's the Gazans who should be calling for the ouster of Hamas. And doing so would bring much faster humanitarian aid and relief. [/quote] The Palestinians have no homes, no food or water, no electricity, no phones or internet and they are surrounded by trigger happy Israelis and Hamas. How does your suggestion work?[/quote] That's their choice, given 71% said they are good with Hamas's bloody massacre on 10/7. Had Hamas not launched that attack, Gazans would still be in their homes with food, water, electricity, and everything else. For all of the "yeah but" there's no getting around that. [/quote] Do you also subscribe to the “she was asking for it” theory of rape? [/quote] How completely idiotic - that's a totally wrong analogy. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets at Israel over the last several years, which would have killed many thousands, were it not for the Iron Dome. And then Hamas launched a violent assault, massacring or kidnapping civilians right and left. When you punch someone in the face and break their nose, and then that person whose nose you broke comes back with a group of friends to break your nose in return, it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY a "she asked for it because of how she was dressed" situation.[/quote] Except you seem to be overlooking the part where you're coming back with a group of friends to not just punch them in the nose (that would be a proportional response), but murdering, maiming or otherwise harming them and everyone they know, destroying their homes and possessions, and forcibly stealing their land by permanently displacing them. And that's just to this point - who knows what devious plans you have in the future? I know proportional responses are not in your playbook because "how dare they even think to fight back!" is the Israeli ethos, but seriously - you really have a warped sense of the world around you.[/quote] How many Palestinians did Israel kidnap or massacre in the 2 years prior to 10/7? Do you think 10/7 was proportionate? (it wasn't - it was a hugely disproportionate attack by Hamas). Not to mention the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas which would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis if they hadn't been shot down by Iron Dome. [/quote] Thanks for ignoring the THOUSANDS of Palestinians Israel killed prior to the 10/7. It's like only Jewish lives matter to you genocide deniers. [/quote] I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny the Jewish genocide in WWII and centuries of other atrocities committed against Jews... I guess it's only fair if pro-Palestinians want to continually deny and ignore all of the things that precipitated Arab-Israeli wars and the repeated instances of genocidal attacks going back to the very day that Israel was partitioned. [/quote] The Jewish genocide in WWII was caused by the Germans. It had nothing to do with the Palestinians. That’s the whole problem. The Palestinians are forced to pay for the German (and European and US who rejected Jewish refugees after the war)’s sins. [/quote] Well you have to admit there was also that little bit of the Palestinians repeatedly trying to drive the Jews off of the lands they had been given by international treaty and repeatedly trying to exterminate them. [/quote] I laughed at your characterization of land theft initiated by Zionist terrorism as “international treaty”, especially in light of the flagrant disregard Israel has for international resolutions these days.[/quote] Jews legally purchased land in Palestine pre-1948. There was a partition plan that was designed so that those legally purchased lands were part of Israel. The Palestinians received a much bigger swath of land than the Jews in that plan. The land the Jews had purchased was mainly swamp lands that they drained and cultivated. Many died from malaria making the land livable. Bottom line: Regardless of whether the British had the right to make both a Jewish and an Arab country, there is now a Jewish country that is prospering. The way forward for everyone is for the Palestinians to make their lives prosperous by accepting Israel and renouncing terrorism once and for all. They need to make a true peace and start living their lives like we all want to live our lives. Only then will they be able to live free lives. With terrorism still in play, Israel will continue to do what it takes to prevent Israelis from being murdered. [/quote] From what I understand many of these purchases were from absentee landlords who left the farming to Palestinian tenants. Yes, the purchases were legal but it made the Palestinian tenant farmers angry to be asked to leave their homes where they had lived for generations. Angry people lash out. Let’s push Israel to break that cycle. [/quote] Maybe you should look up the uniquely Israeli feat of legal cruelty called Present Absentees.[/quote] DP. All I needed was the bit above: [quote]many of these purchases were from absentee landlords who left the farming to Palestinian tenants. Yes, the purchases were legal[/quote] When you don't own the land, you don't own the land. In just about ever country in the world including the Arab world, if the building you live in changes hands, the new owners very much have the right to evict you. Not sure how or why Palestine should somehow be a unique special snowflake kind of place where the legal land owners have no rights over the lands they purchased. If that's the case then what's even the point of deeds? I will say the same should apply to Israeli settlers too. If they do not have legal ownership or a legal landlord-tenant agreement with the current landowners then they are illegal squatters and are subject to be evicted at the landowner's request.[/quote] No, under international law, they couldn't simply evict the Palestinians. Do you think the Trail of Tears was justified? How about the deportation of Armenians as part of the Armenian genocide? Israel was supposed to administer the land, not steal it without compensation. That is why the UN passed Resolution 194, which states: "The United Nations General Assembly adopts resolution 194 (III), resolving that 'refugees wishing to return to their homes [b]and live at peace with their neighbours[/b] should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.'" Israel must, under international law, either accommodate all Palestinians who choose to return or compensate them for their stolen property. Until Israel faces up to its mendacious and genocidal past, Palestinians are going to hate and resent it. [/quote] Oops. Hamas and other Palestinian organizations repeatedly violated that clause.[/quote] Actually, Israel won't allow the Palestinians' right to return because Palestinians returning from exile would quickly outnumber Jews. Israel is strongly invested in keeping the number of Israeli Arabs much lower than the number of Israeli Jews. Also, Israel has not compensated Palestinians for the land, money, possessions, and lives that it has stolen over the past several decades. Until Israel honors 194, Palestinians have no duty to honor 181. [/quote] Why is it that Palestine would dictate the when and until? Shouldn't that be up to the UN General Assembly, since those are their resolutions?[/quote] How many UN resolutions has Israel flouted? Israel loves to trumpet 181 and is very quiet about 194. According to the UN, Palestinians have either the right of return or full compensation. Israel is trying to have everything its own way. The time of privileging Israelis over everyone else is over.[/quote] They can return IF they are peaceful. They are entitled to compensation IF they can show they are in fact entitled to it. That's right in the terms of 194. On the compensation front, the Ottomans and the British administrators were definitely known for being bureaucrats and for keeping records, and as such, the land records archives would show who legally owned what land. But again, a majority of Palestinians were tenants who did not own the land. If they are returning, they need to abide and remain peaceful, or they lose their right to be there. If they are not returning, they need to show legal records proving ownership in order to claim compensation. [/quote] Arab Palestinians owned a lot more land than Jewish Palestinians. It was stolen from them, and they are certainly entitled to compensation. But it was not only the land that was stolen, and there must also be compensation for stolen lives and property. During the Nakba, IDF soldiers massacred and raped Palestinians, cleaned out their bank accounts, stole their furniture, and stole many personal effects. They cut the fingers of massacred women to steal their rings. They stopped Palestinians at checkpoints and rifled through their possessions, stealing items of value. They stole their livelihoods. Even in cases where Palestinians did not own the land, they built homes, stables, and developed orchards. Their homes were bulldozed or given away. Since you are keen on people remaining peaceful, are non-peaceful Israelis allowed to stay on the stolen land? Or should they be evicted? There are about three-quarters of a million Israeli squatters causing trouble in the West Bank. They had no right to be there in the first place and should obviously by removed. [/quote] If they owned the land rather than being tenants then that would be reflected in the land records. I have yet to see that case made. It's a fact that a majority of Palestinians were tenants. It's also amazing how people refer to the Nakba as if the Palestinians were minding their own business, and suddenly out of nowhere the Jews attacked them and stole everything from them. That is not at all the case. The Nakba happened as a result of the Palestinian rejection of the UN partition plan, where Palestinian arabs, supported by military forces from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq attempted to eliminate the Jews and take everything from them. They ultimately failed in that. In that conflict, there was considerable brutality and atrocities committed by both sides, however mostly by disorganized paramilitaries. Were Palestinians forced to evacuate and flee their homes by Jews? Yes. But Arab forces also drove Palestinians from their homes as well. Did private civilians' possessions get stolen? Yes, by both sides. All of those are things typically seen in just about every war known to history. [/quote]
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