Norway's child protective service and Indian immigrants

[Anonymous]

The link you have posted has nothing to do with the Norway case. The case of Baby P was in the UK.

[Anonymous]

"And why are PP's bringing up all the negative things about India?"

India certainly isn't Country of the Month on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Replying to the 2/8 poster (11:15): The issue here is not that there may have been something that compelled child protective services in Norway to remove the children. (Although in reading a lot of the material that's out there about child protective services in both Norway and Sweden, it does seem like confidentiality is an easy cover when the reasons for placing the children in foster care for many years may be flimsy). The main issues are that the children, a breastfeeding infant and a toddler, were removed from parents who are citizens of another country and on temporary visas (the father is a geologist at Halliburton) due to expire in March. The children are also Indian citizens. it does not appear that Barnevernet ever involved the Indian embassy in Oslo, and declared that the children would remain in Norwegian foster care -- in separate homes, which is beyond all reason and completely outside of the children's interests -- until they turned 18! I don't know very much about the U.S. Child protection system, but it seems to recognize the importance of the parent-child attachment, taking a rehabilitative, rather than punitive approach. The Norwegian approach in cases like the Bhattacharyas' seems to be one of "the state knows best," even if, and perhaps, particularly if, you're from a different country. Obviously if there is a deal in place to transfer custody to the father's brother, who lives India, then this is something that could have been explored 9 (!!) months ago, when the children were first taken. There is an entire extended family in India. By the way, the children now probably do not understand their native language, Bengali, anymore. The baby was 4 months old and the little boy was about 2.5 when they were removed from their parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just a few points: This case has not gotten a lot of attention in Norwegian media. The only Norwegian news sources linked in this thread seem to be fringe sources, often with an axe to grind.

Here is the one article that I can find from the mainstream media:

http://mobil.nettavisen.no/?name=nettavisen&i=9805§ion_id=27&guid=3316927

The Norwegian Child Protection Services have a duty of complete confidentiality. They are not allowed to release any information on why a child is removed from its parents. They have however, issued a denial that any of the quotes matters weighed heavily on the decision. Also, they are not allowed to remove a child from its parents. They have to petition the Social Services for a warrant, which will only be given if the matter appears sufficiently serious. This particular case was appealed to the appeals authority, Fylkesmannen. She does get all the information, and came down quite heavily on the side of the social services.

So to summarize: No-one outsiode the parents and the authorities knows why this decision was made. But since the authorities cannot release that information, the other side is free to say anyting they like. However, every instance and individual with the full facts of the
case have supported the child protection services desicion.


no this is not true. The county welfare board disagreed with the agency's decision to remove the children, but that decision was reversed in higher court. The county welfare board's decision shone the light on the agency's arguments for removal, and these were specious to say the least. Furthermore the assumption that governments and courts make no mistakes and don't hide behind so-called confidentiality laws is laughable. I was surprised that this happened in Norway, but as I read more it is pretty clear to me that Norway is not the heaven on earth that many think it is. Sweden too has had similar problems with children. Even if the kid was autistic, what good does it do to remove the children, both of them, from the parents. This is a case of the state gone wild.

This does not neccessarily mean that the decision was correct. From reading about the case, the boy did seem to have som autistic-type self-harming traits that could easily have made red flags go up with social workers who have Baby Phttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/baby-p-the-official-files-1023092.html in fresh memory. But we don't know. We just know that everyone who does know, supports the CPS in this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who think the state did the right thing for doing this to non-citizen children - what do you think will happen to the children if the state insists on separating them from their parents? The parents are non-citizens. Their visas will run out eventually. They'll have to leave the country. Leaving behind their children who, as it is, have no legal status in Norway! So these two kids should stay in some legal limbo for 18 years? with no rights, no entitlements, and no relatives around?

Frankly, I think staying with the mom who slaps you from time to time is preferable to this sort of forcible extraction.

Assuming there is not more to the story.

As a Indian chid of an abusive mother your comment struck a painful cord. I wished every day for someone recognize what my mother was doing to me and take me away. All my relatives knew of the abuse, whilst hey tsked they did nothing. I don't know the details of this case but no it is never good to be slapped around.

[Anonymous]

OMG look at this now

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/norway-custody-row-authorities-apply-for-extension-of-children-s-visas-without-parents-consent-178348

This is unbelievable!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all you people who think Norwegian child protective services has a point saving Norway's superior effing child rearing norms, yeah you know jack! They could have sent the parents and the kids back to where they came from, but no they chose instead to keep the children. The Norwegian CPS has not reported the following charges: co sleeping, hand feeding, and emotional disconnect of the mother (probably post-partum depression), nothing else. All of which suggest she needed help rather than a ruling that allows the parents to see the children a few times a YEAR.

You go live in a welfare state run amok. reminds me of Lisbeth Salander character. no wonder the book struck such a chord. Frankly, f--k Norway. It is now my shit-list.

You are an idiot.

Norway has no f*king business stealing Indian kids. India should turn this into a massive diplomatic fracas, and sue Norway for damages, if not harass Norwegians in India and obstruct Norwegian business interests around the world. If these were American kids, and it was my family, I'd expect my government to send the freakin Navy SEALs in to get my kids out of that sh*thole called Norway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who think the state did the right thing for doing this to non-citizen children - what do you think will happen to the children if the state insists on separating them from their parents? The parents are non-citizens. Their visas will run out eventually. They'll have to leave the country. Leaving behind their children who, as it is, have no legal status in Norway! So these two kids should stay in some legal limbo for 18 years? with no rights, no entitlements, and no relatives around?

Frankly, I think staying with the mom who slaps you from time to time is preferable to this sort of forcible extraction.

Assuming there is not more to the story.

As a Indian chid of an abusive mother your comment struck a painful cord. I wished every day for someone recognize what my mother was doing to me and take me away. All my relatives knew of the abuse, whilst hey tsked they did nothing. I don't know the details of this case but no it is never good to be slapped around.

You are giving one side of the story - what behavior did you engage in that got your parents' goat? Most people spend entire lives feeling sorry for themselves without taking responsibility. There was a US police officer who spanked his daughter, the daughter posted it online, but US law allows parents wide latitude on how they should parent, as it should. If you read statistics on foster children and their destroyed lives, your mother's "abuse" would seem like a vacation. Your mother loved you and cared for you, and just did not know how to show it properly. Grow up and see her for the flawed human we all are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The hand feeding thing is gross.

And eating dead animals is even more gross. Pornography is gross. 50% divorce rates are gross. Mob lynching of black people, and extermination of native americans was gross too. You f**king hoity toity cultural narcissists need a year of hard labor in a Chinese farm to learn some manners. The reason your Army cannot build an empire is because you need air-conditioned tents to sleep in during wars.

[Anonymous]

hi, all -- I'm the OP and wanted to update you on the case and let you know how you can help if you're interested. The case drags on, and the latest news is that the Norwegian government reportedly has asks for the childrens' visas to be extended against the parents' will. This despite a diplomatic agreement reached weeks ago between India and Norway to hand over the children to their father's briother, who lives in India. On Monday (actually, in just over an hour local time), the children's grandparents will begin a 4-day sit-in at the Norwegian Embassy in Delhi. There is also reportedly a meeting Monday in Oslo between Indian and Norwegian officials to agree on a final date for the transfer of custody. So although an end appears to be in sight, the Norwegian government has taken its time moving to reverse a decision that has horrified many people around the world, including human rights activists in Norway and Sweden. The Bhattacharyas saw their children for a very short time just over a week ago, and it was the first time they'd seem them in three months. Unfortunately, this is not a unique case, but hopefully it will be the one that drives reform. If you would like more information or if you can help spread the word, please visit the following Facebook community page and Twitter feed. You do NOT have to be on Facebook or Twitter to view and read the links. If you are on Facebook, please "like" the page. Twitter users can follow @immigfamcps. thank you for your concern and your comments:

www.facebook.com/immigrantfamilieschildprotectiveservices

www.twitter.com/#!/ImmigFamCPS

[Anonymous]

Also native Norwegians fear badly the SWF system in Norway. They use children as trade objects out of greed for money. If you deviate from some strict and unnatural normality scheme or culturally, your children are really in danger. This system snaps children to the full extent of their capacity. If you give them the double capacity, they will snap twice as many children as now.Generally I worn families with children moving to Norway or even visiting Norway as tourists. To kiss your child or give it a good embrace is enough in this country to be suspected of child sexual abuse and have your children taken away from you.

The best way a foreigners can help both themselves and Norwegian Citizens against this system is total and full boicott of all Norwegian companies and products, and by not settling in Norway or go to Norway as tourists.

Regards Knut Holt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who think the state did the right thing for doing this to non-citizen children - what do you think will happen to the children if the state insists on separating them from their parents? The parents are non-citizens. Their visas will run out eventually. They'll have to leave the country. Leaving behind their children who, as it is, have no legal status in Norway! So these two kids should stay in some legal limbo for 18 years? with no rights, no entitlements, and no relatives around?

Frankly, I think staying with the mom who slaps you from time to time is preferable to this sort of forcible extraction.

Assuming there is not more to the story.

As a Indian chid of an abusive mother your comment struck a painful cord. I wished every day for someone recognize what my mother was doing to me and take me away. All my relatives knew of the abuse, whilst hey tsked they did nothing. I don't know the details of this case but no it is never good to be slapped around.

You are giving one side of the story - what behavior did you engage in that got your parents' goat? Most people spend entire lives feeling sorry for themselves without taking responsibility. There was a US police officer who spanked his daughter, the daughter posted it online, but US law allows parents wide latitude on how they should parent, as it should. If you read statistics on foster children and their destroyed lives, your mother's "abuse" would seem like a vacation. Your mother loved you and cared for you, and just did not know how to show it properly. Grow up and see her for the flawed human we all are.

New poster here. I can't believe you're condoning child abuse!!! You have no clue about the details of the abuse the PP prior to you suffered. How dare you turn it on her/him and assume they held some responsibility. I feel sick just reading your post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all you people who think Norwegian child protective services has a point saving Norway's superior effing child rearing norms, yeah you know jack! They could have sent the parents and the kids back to where they came from, but no they chose instead to keep the children. The Norwegian CPS has not reported the following charges: co sleeping, hand feeding, and emotional disconnect of the mother (probably post-partum depression), nothing else. All of which suggest she needed help rather than a ruling that allows the parents to see the children a few times a YEAR.

You go live in a welfare state run amok. reminds me of Lisbeth Salander character. no wonder the book struck such a chord. Frankly, f--k Norway. It is now my shit-list.

You are an idiot.

Norway has no f*king business stealing Indian kids. India should turn this into a massive diplomatic fracas, and sue Norway for damages, if not harass Norwegians in India and obstruct Norwegian business interests around the world. If these were American kids, and it was my family, I'd expect my government to send the freakin Navy SEALs in to get my kids out of that sh*thole called Norway.

Stop drinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also native Norwegians fear badly the SWF system in Norway. They use children as trade objects out of greed for money. If you deviate from some strict and unnatural normality scheme or culturally, your children are really in danger. This system snaps children to the full extent of their capacity. If you give them the double capacity, they will snap twice as many children as now.Generally I worn families with children moving to Norway or even visiting Norway as tourists. To kiss your child or give it a good embrace is enough in this country to be suspected of child sexual abuse and have your children taken away from you.

The best way a foreigners can help both themselves and Norwegian Citizens against this system is total and full boicott of all Norwegian companies and products, and by not settling in Norway or go to Norway as tourists.

Regards Knut Holt

I'd rather they check up on any hint of child abuse than it really happening.
Regards, Anna Holt

[Anonymous]

By the way, I am not a relative of Anne Holt and I do not know this Anne Holt personally, nor does she knows me even though we have the same family name.
Knut Holt