23% of GEN Z identify as Lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans or other

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well it's trendy right?

NP. Yes, it is. My kids (straight teens and tweens) are strongly aware of this in their schools. Being LBGTQ is to the 2020s what being Goth was to the 1980s. In that sense, I have seen it be a positive thing for kids who are having difficulty finding acceptance. That doesn't make it real but it is harmless depending on how far you take it. When it does cause harm: changing bathrooms creates privacy issues; allowing biologically male individuals into women's sports destroys those sports for women because there is a fundamental advantage for someone who has gone through male puberty; allowing children to permanently modify their bodies to transition is a disservice to those children who don't understand themselves or the permanence of their choices; and, medicine is not doing its job if biological sex is not taken into account. So, while it's wonderful for people to have the freedom to be who they are, I do think these numbers represent a trend, not reality, and the trend can do harm. And, it is frustrating that the democrats are so determined to die on this particular altar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well it's trendy right?

NP. Yes, it is. My kids (straight teens and tweens) are strongly aware of this in their schools. Being LBGTQ is to the 2020s what being Goth was to the 1980s. In that sense, I have seen it be a positive thing for kids who are having difficulty finding acceptance. That doesn't make it real but it is harmless depending on how far you take it. When it does cause harm: changing bathrooms creates privacy issues; allowing biologically male individuals into women's sports destroys those sports for women because there is a fundamental advantage for someone who has gone through male puberty; allowing children to permanently modify their bodies to transition is a disservice to those children who don't understand themselves or the permanence of their choices; and, medicine is not doing its job if biological sex is not taken into account. So, while it's wonderful for people to have the freedom to be who they are, I do think these numbers represent a trend, not reality, and the trend can do harm. And, it is frustrating that the democrats are so determined to die on this particular altar.

LEAVE TRANS PEOPLE ALONEEEE!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well it's trendy right?

NP. Yes, it is. My kids (straight teens and tweens) are strongly aware of this in their schools. Being LBGTQ is to the 2020s what being Goth was to the 1980s. In that sense, I have seen it be a positive thing for kids who are having difficulty finding acceptance. That doesn't make it real but it is harmless depending on how far you take it. When it does cause harm: changing bathrooms creates privacy issues; allowing biologically male individuals into women's sports destroys those sports for women because there is a fundamental advantage for someone who has gone through male puberty; allowing children to permanently modify their bodies to transition is a disservice to those children who don't understand themselves or the permanence of their choices; and, medicine is not doing its job if biological sex is not taken into account. So, while it's wonderful for people to have the freedom to be who they are, I do think these numbers represent a trend, not reality, and the trend can do harm. And, it is frustrating that the democrats are so determined to die on this particular altar.

LEAVE TRANS PEOPLE ALONEEEE!!!

Fortunately, the wave has crested, and trans has peaked and is on the downward slope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:23% of GEN Z identify as Lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans or other
9.8% Of Millennials
4.5 OF GEN X
2.3 Baby Boomers
1.1 Silet Gen..

Thoughts?

My initial thought is either you're making this up or it's not from a credible, statistically valid source.

You would be wrong. I've seen this all over the place. This is just one source.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/nearly-30-gen-z-adults-identify-lgbtq-national-survey-finds-rcna135510#

"The survey was
carried out among a representative sample of
6,616 participants, including an oversample of
teens 13-17 years old and adults 18-25 years
old, living in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, who are part of Ipsos’s KnowledgePanel and an additional 602 who were recruited by
Ipsos using opt-in survey panels to increase the
sample sizes in smaller states and 18-25 years
old."

This is known as sampling bias. They really contorted themselves with the weighting. I don't remember much from my graduate school statistics classes, but I'm a bit skeptical of this. To their credit, they're pretty transparent about the potential sampling bias. But bottom line is they seem to have attracted a lot of GenZ who are eager to talk about their identity than doing something truly random.

Even if it's accurate, the fact that people posting here seem to be upset about the numbers is just ridiculous. Who cares if more people are happily admitting that they're queer? Let them live their lives. It's only straight cisgender people that think this number going up is somehow an issue. Most of the people identified as bisexual which isn't at all surprising. I'm sure there's a huge number of closeted bisexual people people in straight marriages in older generations. Again, who cares? They're nothing inherently wrong with being LGBTQ. We're literally just people like everyone else.

Because they’re not actually gay. People calll themselves queer and then only date opposite sex people. But calling themselves queer confers coolness on them. Frankly it’s insulting to the hard-fought battles of gays and lesbians for acceptance and equal rights under the law.

I’m not sure why it’s insulting. Isn’t there kind of an “I am Spartacus” effect? If everyone is saying they are gay (even if they aren’t), it makes it much harder to persecute gay people doesn’t it?

On the other hand, I can see it making it much harder for actual gay people to find real relationship when there are a bunch of “gay in name only” (Ginos?) out there.

Identifying as gay on a survey doesn't make it hard for someone to find a date. In the case of this survey, most people identified as bisexual. We already know that most bisexual people are in straight relationships because that's more socially acceptable and that's where the largest dating pool is. What I'm seeing in this thread are a couple of straight women getting really distraught and scandalized over the numbers going up.

Here's the way it usually works if you're curious. Someone is bisexual and dates only (or mostly) opposite gender partners. This person gets married and is in a straight marriage. They're monogamous and never date outside of marriage. They feel invalid and "not queer enough" so they don't go to Pride or to gay bars because they're in a straight marriage. If asked (or surveyed) if they're LGBTQ+, they'll say they're bisexual because they are. People not feeling queer enough is a really common queer experience - especially if they haven't been out for long or if they're in a straight passing relationship. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/not-queer-enough/id1694094256

I doubt that any of the anti-trans posters are straight.

Most people that comment on this board are straight women.

How about the prolific anti-trans posters? Many are not straight.

Are you saying they’re closeted and self hating so they attack the LGBTQ community, especially the trans community because they’re most vulnerable? I mean yeah, I know that happens sometimes, but I don’t think it’s fair to assume people have a certain sexuality based on posts, unless the post is referencing their sexuality.

Occasionally I’ll see an anti trans post from someone who says they’re gay, but most are just conservative. I’ve never tried to count or do a poll here regarding sexuality of posters who share their anti trans beliefs.

No, they are openly lesbian and want to excise the T from LGBTQ.

Are you a lesbian? From what I've seen, the lesbian community is the most accepting of trans people................

Then you are seeing the surface. On its surface, all the lesbians groups and meetups I have been a part of (and it’s been a lot!!) go above and beyond to show, at least on the surface, how inclusive they are and welcome all female-identifying and WLW etc etc etc.

The reality of these groups is that while cis lesbians pair off into couples and cis friend groups form and do things together, but for some crazy reason no person could possibly discern, the trans women seem to be mostly and mysteriously left out of these pairings and friend groups that form. Weird, huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:23% of GEN Z identify as Lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans or other
9.8% Of Millennials
4.5 OF GEN X
2.3 Baby Boomers
1.1 Silet Gen..

Thoughts?

My initial thought is either you're making this up or it's not from a credible, statistically valid source.

You would be wrong. I've seen this all over the place. This is just one source.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/nearly-30-gen-z-adults-identify-lgbtq-national-survey-finds-rcna135510#

"The survey was
carried out among a representative sample of
6,616 participants, including an oversample of
teens 13-17 years old and adults 18-25 years
old, living in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, who are part of Ipsos’s KnowledgePanel and an additional 602 who were recruited by
Ipsos using opt-in survey panels to increase the
sample sizes in smaller states and 18-25 years
old."

This is known as sampling bias. They really contorted themselves with the weighting. I don't remember much from my graduate school statistics classes, but I'm a bit skeptical of this. To their credit, they're pretty transparent about the potential sampling bias. But bottom line is they seem to have attracted a lot of GenZ who are eager to talk about their identity than doing something truly random.

Even if it's accurate, the fact that people posting here seem to be upset about the numbers is just ridiculous. Who cares if more people are happily admitting that they're queer? Let them live their lives. It's only straight cisgender people that think this number going up is somehow an issue. Most of the people identified as bisexual which isn't at all surprising. I'm sure there's a huge number of closeted bisexual people people in straight marriages in older generations. Again, who cares? They're nothing inherently wrong with being LGBTQ. We're literally just people like everyone else.

Because they’re not actually gay. People calll themselves queer and then only date opposite sex people. But calling themselves queer confers coolness on them. Frankly it’s insulting to the hard-fought battles of gays and lesbians for acceptance and equal rights under the law.

I’m not sure why it’s insulting. Isn’t there kind of an “I am Spartacus” effect? If everyone is saying they are gay (even if they aren’t), it makes it much harder to persecute gay people doesn’t it?

On the other hand, I can see it making it much harder for actual gay people to find real relationship when there are a bunch of “gay in name only” (Ginos?) out there.

Identifying as gay on a survey doesn't make it hard for someone to find a date. In the case of this survey, most people identified as bisexual. We already know that most bisexual people are in straight relationships because that's more socially acceptable and that's where the largest dating pool is. What I'm seeing in this thread are a couple of straight women getting really distraught and scandalized over the numbers going up.

Here's the way it usually works if you're curious. Someone is bisexual and dates only (or mostly) opposite gender partners. This person gets married and is in a straight marriage. They're monogamous and never date outside of marriage. They feel invalid and "not queer enough" so they don't go to Pride or to gay bars because they're in a straight marriage. If asked (or surveyed) if they're LGBTQ+, they'll say they're bisexual because they are. People not feeling queer enough is a really common queer experience - especially if they haven't been out for long or if they're in a straight passing relationship. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/not-queer-enough/id1694094256

I doubt that any of the anti-trans posters are straight.

Most people that comment on this board are straight women.

How about the prolific anti-trans posters? Many are not straight.

Are you saying they’re closeted and self hating so they attack the LGBTQ community, especially the trans community because they’re most vulnerable? I mean yeah, I know that happens sometimes, but I don’t think it’s fair to assume people have a certain sexuality based on posts, unless the post is referencing their sexuality.

Occasionally I’ll see an anti trans post from someone who says they’re gay, but most are just conservative. I’ve never tried to count or do a poll here regarding sexuality of posters who share their anti trans beliefs.

No, they are openly lesbian and want to excise the T from LGBTQ.

Are you a lesbian? From what I've seen, the lesbian community is the most accepting of trans people................

This may be true, but many lesbians are extremely anti-trans. They are most of the original TERFs after all.

They were writing about the conflicts between women’s issues and transgender issues as early as the 70s, long before it became mainstream.

[Anonymous]

It was lesbians who first identified just how misogynist a lot of drag is, way back in the 1970s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It was lesbians who first identified just how misogynist a lot of drag is, way back in the 1970s.

And most trans men leave the lesbian community or are straight up kicked out once they start passing. They go stealth and marry straight women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was lesbians who first identified just how misogynist a lot of drag is, way back in the 1970s.

And most trans men leave the lesbian community or are straight up kicked out once they start passing. They go stealth and marry straight women.

Trans men aren't women, why would they be in the lesbian community? They're not lesbians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was lesbians who first identified just how misogynist a lot of drag is, way back in the 1970s.

And most trans men leave the lesbian community or are straight up kicked out once they start passing. They go stealth and marry straight women.

Trans men aren't women, why would they be in the lesbian community? They're not lesbians.

I agree, they shouldn't be part of the lesbian community. They're straight men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was lesbians who first identified just how misogynist a lot of drag is, way back in the 1970s.

And most trans men leave the lesbian community or are straight up kicked out once they start passing. They go stealth and marry straight women.

Trans men aren't women, why would they be in the lesbian community? They're not lesbians.

I agree, they shouldn't be part of the lesbian community. They're straight men.

Trans men aren't straight men
Trans women aren't lesbian women

Trans men aren't really lesbians either
Trans women aren't really gay men either

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was lesbians who first identified just how misogynist a lot of drag is, way back in the 1970s.

And most trans men leave the lesbian community or are straight up kicked out once they start passing. They go stealth and marry straight women.

Trans men aren't women, why would they be in the lesbian community? They're not lesbians.

I agree, they shouldn't be part of the lesbian community. They're straight men.

Trans men aren't straight men
Trans women aren't lesbian women

Trans men aren't really lesbians either
Trans women aren't really gay men either

So let's say you're a man and you date a transgender woman. Are you a gay man or a straight man? If you're a man and you date a transgender man, are you a gay man or a straight man? Same thing for a woman that would date a trans man or a trans woman.

In your view, is a person that dates a trans person both straight and gay?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well it's trendy right?

NP. Yes, it is. My kids (straight teens and tweens) are strongly aware of this in their schools. Being LBGTQ is to the 2020s what being Goth was to the 1980s. In that sense, I have seen it be a positive thing for kids who are having difficulty finding acceptance. That doesn't make it real but it is harmless depending on how far you take it. When it does cause harm: changing bathrooms creates privacy issues; allowing biologically male individuals into women's sports destroys those sports for women because there is a fundamental advantage for someone who has gone through male puberty; allowing children to permanently modify their bodies to transition is a disservice to those children who don't understand themselves or the permanence of their choices; and, medicine is not doing its job if biological sex is not taken into account. So, while it's wonderful for people to have the freedom to be who they are, I do think these numbers represent a trend, not reality, and the trend can do harm. And, it is frustrating that the democrats are so determined to die on this particular altar.

LEAVE TRANS PEOPLE ALONEEEE!!!

Fortunately, the wave has crested, and trans has peaked and is on the downward slope.

Great. Does that mean the RWNJs and TERFs can find someone new to hate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was lesbians who first identified just how misogynist a lot of drag is, way back in the 1970s.

And most trans men leave the lesbian community or are straight up kicked out once they start passing. They go stealth and marry straight women.

Trans men aren't women, why would they be in the lesbian community? They're not lesbians.

I agree, they shouldn't be part of the lesbian community. They're straight men.

Trans men aren't straight men
Trans women aren't lesbian women

Trans men aren't really lesbians either
Trans women aren't really gay men either

So let's say you're a man and you date a transgender woman. Are you a gay man or a straight man? If you're a man and you date a transgender man, are you a gay man or a straight man? Same thing for a woman that would date a trans man or a trans woman.

In your view, is a person that dates a trans person both straight and gay?

There's really not a name for it, is there? I'm sure a name will appear in the near future. If I am a cis man and I am dating a transgender woman - if I attempt to have sexual relations (kissing, fondling, intercourse) with my transgender woman date, get aroused by the sexual relations and would be willing to continue having sexual relations because I liked it...I wouldn't be 100% straight man, would I? If a person with a penis has sex with another person with a penis...that's gay.

Now the whole transgender thing throws everything for a loop. A gay man probably wouldn't get past the fact that they are outwardly dating a "woman". Honestly, I'd just say I have a kink. A man who dates a transgender woman has a kink.

Likewise, if I were a man who dated a person with a vagina, had intercourse with said person and liked it...could I really be a gay man? Bisexual at best but not 100% gay.

Any person who dates a transgender probably just has a kink.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was lesbians who first identified just how misogynist a lot of drag is, way back in the 1970s.

And most trans men leave the lesbian community or are straight up kicked out once they start passing. They go stealth and marry straight women.

Trans men aren't women, why would they be in the lesbian community? They're not lesbians.

I agree, they shouldn't be part of the lesbian community. They're straight men.

Trans men aren't straight men
Trans women aren't lesbian women

Trans men aren't really lesbians either
Trans women aren't really gay men either

So let's say you're a man and you date a transgender woman. Are you a gay man or a straight man? If you're a man and you date a transgender man, are you a gay man or a straight man? Same thing for a woman that would date a trans man or a trans woman.

In your view, is a person that dates a trans person both straight and gay?

There's really not a name for it, is there? I'm sure a name will appear in the near future. If I am a cis man and I am dating a transgender woman - if I attempt to have sexual relations (kissing, fondling, intercourse) with my transgender woman date, get aroused by the sexual relations and would be willing to continue having sexual relations because I liked it...I wouldn't be 100% straight man, would I? If a person with a penis has sex with another person with a penis...that's gay.

Now the whole transgender thing throws everything for a loop. A gay man probably wouldn't get past the fact that they are outwardly dating a "woman". Honestly, I'd just say I have a kink. A man who dates a transgender woman has a kink.

Likewise, if I were a man who dated a person with a vagina, had intercourse with said person and liked it...could I really be a gay man? Bisexual at best but not 100% gay.

Any person who dates a transgender probably just has a kink.

Most trans people would consider a man that dates a trans woman (regardless of her bottom surgery status) as being a straight man or bisexual. He is not gay because he is attracted to her body. You're right that gay men are not attracted to transgender women because they think other men are attractive. Some people use the term pansexual to mean that they're attracted to all genders and that it's the person that's the most important. It's kind of more inclusive than bisexual. Some people use the term transamorous which means that they're attracted to only trans people. That's not so much a kink as a specific attraction that's outside of the norm. A transamorous man might only want to have sex with trans women or trans men (or both) but not cis men or cis women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:23% of GEN Z identify as Lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans or other
9.8% Of Millennials
4.5 OF GEN X
2.3 Baby Boomers
1.1 Silet Gen..

Thoughts?

Across the animal world there are dozens upon dozens of species which exhibit same sex sexual behavior as well as opposite sex sexual behavior.

I believe that the rate of sexually diverse attraction in humans has always been substantial, but that repression in society and families due to religious beliefs has kept people from engaging in/expressing it openly.