Compacted math going away?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people are gunning to get into the advanced track because the regular track is just too slow for some kids -- and that is because there is no real enrichment in MCPS math. It is accleleration or nothing. I agree with PP that they should offer an enriched math class in ES that follows grade-level standards but goes much deeper, offering extensions and enrichment rather than accelearation. This would only work if it's a separate class, like compacted math is in most schools. Then they could start the acceleration with 6+ in middle school, so the typical advanced track does A1 in 8th.

At the ES level an enriched class would still be an accelerated class. Even if they did a class with a curriculum like say Beast Academy as enriched, the kids in this class would still ready to tackle Pre-algebra in 6th and Algebra in 7th which is exactly what the MCPS curriculum does. The ES acceleration is not the problem. CM could potentially utilize some more in-depth problems and applications but the problem is MS math where further acceleration happens unnecessarily, and where Algebra and Geometry are taught as separate classes as opposed to integrated.

I think that Algebra 1 and Geometry have to be separate because each is a state requirement -- unless the state would approve an integrated course sequence.

[Anonymous]

Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

OK. But some kids should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

OK. But some kids should.

NP. True, but compacted math in 4th is not the only path.

Both my kids took Calc in 11th. DD took AP Calc. DS took Honors. Neither took compacted math in 4th because they weren’t in MCPS then. Neither took Algebra in 7th.

Summer after 8th grade, both started accelerating by using (then free) summer school.

In 11th, they ended up in the same Calc classes as the kids who took compacted math.

I agree there need to be more on-ramps, but there isn’t only one. I doubt MCPS will eliminate it, but if compacted math disappears, use summer school to jump ahead. I guess the problem is the lack of cachet in the phrase “summer school” compared to “compacted math”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://mathacademy.com is a bit extreme, but they've got classes with poor brown kids passing AP Calc exams on 8th and 9th grade.

This sounds interesting but I just don’t want more screens for the kid. He is already on it too much.

The problem is probably what he’s doing in the screens, not the total time. Reduce his free time which is probably YouTube and games.

A friend has her son’s homework and enrichment cast to the big tv in their living room. It’s amazing how much faster he works now that his parents can see everything. That freed an hour for enrichment.

[Anonymous]

The issue really is that 2nd and 3rd grade math is ridiculously slow. This means many kids are bored and parents are clamoring to get them in compacted. If they were more challenged in those earlier years they would be happier, with more in depth work. The progression could then be slowed in middle school. Spend more time on some of the tougher concepts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

OK. But some kids should.

Hence the use of the word “most”. Around class of 2026 at our up county HS district ended up with over half the grade on this path. Now these kids are struggling in Pre-calc. I pulled my kid back in MS and he is doing great. Parents need to think ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

But is important to provide options for those that do instead of insisting on dumbing things down for equity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue really is that 2nd and 3rd grade math is ridiculously slow. This means many kids are bored and parents are clamoring to get them in compacted. If they were more challenged in those earlier years they would be happier, with more in depth work. The progression could then be slowed in middle school. Spend more time on some of the tougher concepts.

All for making the early years of math more interesting but at some level it’s math and going to boring to a lot of kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

But is important to provide options for those that do instead of insisting on dumbing things down for equity.

Definitely. There is some low percentage of kids that need acceleration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

OK. But some kids should.

NP. True, but compacted math in 4th is not the only path.

Both my kids took Calc in 11th. DD took AP Calc. DS took Honors. Neither took compacted math in 4th because they weren’t in MCPS then. Neither took Algebra in 7th.

Summer after 8th grade, both started accelerating by using (then free) summer school.

In 11th, they ended up in the same Calc classes as the kids who took compacted math.

I agree there need to be more on-ramps, but there isn’t only one. I doubt MCPS will eliminate it, but if compacted math disappears, use summer school to jump ahead. I guess the problem is the lack of cachet in the phrase “summer school” compared to “compacted math”.

DP. Part of it, and maybe the biggest part, is meeting students where they are. While there may be many that are pushed, there are many that simply need more advanced/interesting math just to stay engaged, even, or especially, among kids for whom math is a favorite subject.

I doubt summer school would be a preference for them ("Hey Stacy, guess what you're getting to do this summer!?"), and we've seen the system discourage using summer school that way, anyway, needing to focus resources . Further, that kind of option isn't really available to elementary kids, who would wait years during which their interest likely would falter.

Meanwhile, off-ramps are pretty readily available in middle school and high school if the unnecessary stigma, similar to that references about summer school, were countered. Going from Math 5/6 to Math 7 (instead of a semi-leap to AMP 7+) is one such path, with Algebra in 8th instead of 7th. It's not the only one, though. A year of Stats, Calc AB as a Junior and Calc BC as a Senior, etc. Again, it's about doing a reasonable job to offer options to meet kids where their interests & capabilities are, which can change for each kid as they grow, doing a good job of identifying those and communicating well among teachers, administrators and families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue really is that 2nd and 3rd grade math is ridiculously slow. This means many kids are bored and parents are clamoring to get them in compacted. If they were more challenged in those earlier years they would be happier, with more in depth work. The progression could then be slowed in middle school. Spend more time on some of the tougher concepts.

+100. This. Elementary math (compacted or not) is far too easy. But it's rushed in middle/high school when they need to go deeper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

OK. But some kids should.

NP. True, but compacted math in 4th is not the only path.

Both my kids took Calc in 11th. DD took AP Calc. DS took Honors. Neither took compacted math in 4th because they weren’t in MCPS then. Neither took Algebra in 7th.

Summer after 8th grade, both started accelerating by using (then free) summer school.

In 11th, they ended up in the same Calc classes as the kids who took compacted math.

I agree there need to be more on-ramps, but there isn’t only one. I doubt MCPS will eliminate it, but if compacted math disappears, use summer school to jump ahead. I guess the problem is the lack of cachet in the phrase “summer school” compared to “compacted math”.

DP. Part of it, and maybe the biggest part, is meeting students where they are. While there may be many that are pushed, there are many that simply need more advanced/interesting math just to stay engaged, even, or especially, among kids for whom math is a favorite subject.

I doubt summer school would be a preference for them ("Hey Stacy, guess what you're getting to do this summer!?"), and we've seen the system discourage using summer school that way, anyway, needing to focus resources . Further, that kind of option isn't really available to elementary kids, who would wait years during which their interest likely would falter.

Meanwhile, off-ramps are pretty readily available in middle school and high school if the unnecessary stigma, similar to that references about summer school, were countered. Going from Math 5/6 to Math 7 (instead of a semi-leap to AMP 7+) is one such path, with Algebra in 8th instead of 7th. It's not the only one, though. A year of Stats, Calc AB as a Junior and Calc BC as a Senior, etc. Again, it's about doing a reasonable job to offer options to meet kids where their interests & capabilities are, which can change for each kid as they grow, doing a good job of identifying those and communicating well among teachers, administrators and families.

Not totally true. Once kids get to algebra it’s hard to have an off-ramp prior to Calc without repeating a class. I had my kid repeat Algebra 1 since took it over Covid and as a STEM person I could tell he did not 100% grasp the material. Classmates commented on how he was no longer in the highest class. This is a kid with 97% MAPM scores so he’s not stupid but is way better off on a path to Calculus senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

OK. But some kids should.

NP. True, but compacted math in 4th is not the only path.

Both my kids took Calc in 11th. DD took AP Calc. DS took Honors. Neither took compacted math in 4th because they weren’t in MCPS then. Neither took Algebra in 7th.

Summer after 8th grade, both started accelerating by using (then free) summer school.

In 11th, they ended up in the same Calc classes as the kids who took compacted math.

I agree there need to be more on-ramps, but there isn’t only one. I doubt MCPS will eliminate it, but if compacted math disappears, use summer school to jump ahead. I guess the problem is the lack of cachet in the phrase “summer school” compared to “compacted math”.

DP. Part of it, and maybe the biggest part, is meeting students where they are. While there may be many that are pushed, there are many that simply need more advanced/interesting math just to stay engaged, even, or especially, among kids for whom math is a favorite subject.

I doubt summer school would be a preference for them ("Hey Stacy, guess what you're getting to do this summer!?"), and we've seen the system discourage using summer school that way, anyway, needing to focus resources . Further, that kind of option isn't really available to elementary kids, who would wait years during which their interest likely would falter.

Meanwhile, off-ramps are pretty readily available in middle school and high school if the unnecessary stigma, similar to that references about summer school, were countered. Going from Math 5/6 to Math 7 (instead of a semi-leap to AMP 7+) is one such path, with Algebra in 8th instead of 7th. It's not the only one, though. A year of Stats, Calc AB as a Junior and Calc BC as a Senior, etc. Again, it's about doing a reasonable job to offer options to meet kids where their interests & capabilities are, which can change for each kid as they grow, doing a good job of identifying those and communicating well among teachers, administrators and families.

Framing solves that issue: “Stacy, I know you’re bored in Hon Algebra I. This summer, you can take Geometry and go to Hon Algebra II in the Fall.”

As parents, we are supposed to have them do what is best for them, not just their preference. We make sure they drink water instead of soda all day long. Six weeks of summer school so they aren’t bored the next three years is a reasonable parenting decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeat after me. Most kids do not need to be on a path to take Calculus in 11th grade.

OK. But some kids should.

NP. True, but compacted math in 4th is not the only path.

Both my kids took Calc in 11th. DD took AP Calc. DS took Honors. Neither took compacted math in 4th because they weren’t in MCPS then. Neither took Algebra in 7th.

Summer after 8th grade, both started accelerating by using (then free) summer school.

In 11th, they ended up in the same Calc classes as the kids who took compacted math.

I agree there need to be more on-ramps, but there isn’t only one. I doubt MCPS will eliminate it, but if compacted math disappears, use summer school to jump ahead. I guess the problem is the lack of cachet in the phrase “summer school” compared to “compacted math”.

DP. Part of it, and maybe the biggest part, is meeting students where they are. While there may be many that are pushed, there are many that simply need more advanced/interesting math just to stay engaged, even, or especially, among kids for whom math is a favorite subject.

I doubt summer school would be a preference for them ("Hey Stacy, guess what you're getting to do this summer!?"), and we've seen the system discourage using summer school that way, anyway, needing to focus resources . Further, that kind of option isn't really available to elementary kids, who would wait years during which their interest likely would falter.

Meanwhile, off-ramps are pretty readily available in middle school and high school if the unnecessary stigma, similar to that references about summer school, were countered. Going from Math 5/6 to Math 7 (instead of a semi-leap to AMP 7+) is one such path, with Algebra in 8th instead of 7th. It's not the only one, though. A year of Stats, Calc AB as a Junior and Calc BC as a Senior, etc. Again, it's about doing a reasonable job to offer options to meet kids where their interests & capabilities are, which can change for each kid as they grow, doing a good job of identifying those and communicating well among teachers, administrators and families.

Framing solves that issue: “Stacy, I know you’re bored in Hon Algebra I. This summer, you can take Geometry and go to Hon Algebra II in the Fall.”

As parents, we are supposed to have them do what is best for them, not just their preference. We make sure they drink water instead of soda all day long. Six weeks of summer school so they aren’t bored the next three years is a reasonable parenting decision...

...when the school system doesn't provide a reasonable alternative. But MCPS does provide such alternatives, and is right in doing so.

Why make summer school the route kids have to take instead of offering acceleration and doing a good job of identifying kids needing that? Even math-eager Stacys are not likely to be thrilled with the former, no matter how it's framed.