French ban on burqas - what is your take?

[Anonymous]

I've been reading with interest about France's intent to ban the wearing of burqas (the full body/facial covering worn by some Muslim women), and I just can't decide how I feel about this.

On the one hand, I think its important to protect Muslim women from a life of isolation and subservience, and I believe that in most cases, these burqas are really not worn by choice. They are worn because the men around these women insist on it.

On the other hand, I'm sure there are some Muslim women who believe they SHOULD wear burqas (due to their religious beliefs) and WANT to wear them. It seems criminal to deny them the right to practice their own religion, or wear what they feel comfortable in.

It reminds me a bit of the polygamy problem in some western states in America. You have a group of people (women) (you could call them brainwashed, uneducated, isolated, nuts, or devout, depending on your take) who believe that polygamy is desired by God, and they are bringing up children (and young girls) in that environment. So, of course, when society tries to "save" these young women by banning polygamy and arresting polygamists, we find that they really don't want to be saved. You're taking them out of an environment that (no matter how sick and twisted) is all they know. So do you ruin their lives (as they are) for the sake of breaking the cycle and not allowing any more children to be born into such an environment?

sigh... All of my liberal 1st Amendment values are feeling conflicted...

[Anonymous]

I dunno.

I'm inclined to ... well, if it's a security issue, then burqa ban. If not, to each their own.

[Anonymous]

The thing is that it's another country that has its own laws and culture. It's like a group of people going to another group's home and expecting the first group to accept their culture and values which may be opposite to the beliefs held by the first group. That's different from here where people come from all over the world to blend together and become part of the melting pot.

[Anonymous]

Although this may not be the most sophisticated point-of-view I could argue here...Funny how many muslims come from countries (saudi arabia, iran) where there are very few personal freedoms and little to no tolerance for other religions. Some muslim countries are more tolerant than others, of course. Yet muslims expect preferential treatment in France, pushing for things like gender-segregated public swimming pool hours etc. I have no problem with France banning the burqa as its a symbol of oppression for women. ie. women not wearing the burqa are subject to violence and humiliation.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the PP.

If I were to move to France, I'd be expected to adopt their culture. I teach my son that if we go to someone else's house, we follow their rules.

There are some Muslim countries that would require me to wear a hijab if I go there. I would do so out of respect.

If France wishes to adopt this law, they should be able to do so.

[Anonymous]

if it's a security issue, then one group shouldn't have the right to wear something that other groups couldn't. especially if that group's more extreme factions have been linked to recent terrorist events.

i'm personally not a fan of the burqa or the restrictive culture that encourages/enforces it. i'm also not a fan of my brother's baptist church not allowing women and girls to wear pants and requiring skirts to be of a long, unflattering and cumbersome length. i think that's asinine, impractical and discriminatory. I'd be thrilled if we could ban those too. I feel like religion is something that shouldn't require extremes in anything, including clothing, in order to be devout. but what the hell do I know?

[Anonymous]

Don't know why it's the women who have to cover up when it's the men who have problems with temptation. Maybe the men should stay at home and only be allowed to go out in public when escorted by a female family member so they won't be tempted. And if they are tempted, eighty lashings for them! Ha!

[Anonymous]

a Muslim woman I know, when asked why she doesn't wear hijab, offers to provide men with blindfolds and white canes so they won't be tempted by her.

[Anonymous]

I'm glad this is an anonymous forum because I've wanted to say something on this topic that is pretty unsophisticated, intolerant and definitely not PC: I'm cheering for France and I'm glad they keep cracking down on this. Here's the super unsophisticated 3rd grade argument: if they don't like the new French rule, I know a few countries where they can move to where they will feel more comfortable and more freedom to cover themselves entirely.

[Anonymous]

I was listening to a story about this on NPR. Apparently, the Burqa has no major religious significance. A very small percentage of the Muslim population in France even wear them.

I think if you choose to move to another country, then you should expect to have to follow their culture and rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad this is an anonymous forum because I've wanted to say something on this topic that is pretty unsophisticated, intolerant and definitely not PC: I'm cheering for France and I'm glad they keep cracking down on this. Here's the super unsophisticated 3rd grade argument: if they don't like the new French rule, I know a few countries where they can move to where they will feel more comfortable and more freedom to cover themselves entirely.

Me too. And I agree with Swiss. It is their country and they should protect their culture. The English are wishing they had done more of this.

[Anonymous]

I support the ban only on facial covering since that is a security issue. I need to see the face of the oerson that I am dealing with.
Hair covering is none of their business.
What do the French do when a person covers his/her head beccause of hair loss from chemotherapy?
The French need to leave these folks alone.

Let's us not become secular fundamentalists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was listening to a story about this on NPR. Apparently, the Burqa has no major religious significance. A very small percentage of the Muslim population in France even wear them.

Yes, this is my understanding as well. I think that (and correct me if I'm wrong here, if there's someone who knows about Islamic law) that it's the hijab that's required in Islamic law, not the burqa or other garments that cover the face. Hijab means the scarf (plus modest covering for the rest of the woman's body - face, hands and feet can be shown).

Personally, I'm okay with the hijab. I agree with France banning the burqa or other face coverings. For me, the most compelling arguments are security (how can the burqa-wearer have any meaningful form of ID, and how can someone check it if they can't see her face), culture ("if you're moving to our country you have to abide by our rules and integrate at least somewhat"), and the fact that only really extreme interpretations of Islamic law require the burqa (as opposed to the hijab) anyway. And of course, there's the issue of oppression of women, but I hate to use that argument, because then it could be used to ban the hijab, which would be a shame. Muslims can (reasonably, I think) counter-argue that the way women are expected to dress in Western societies can be a form of oppression too. I think the burqa is a black-and-white issue: there is nothing positive and it's got to go. Hijab vs. Western women's clothes? Meh. I think that's a gray area, to-may-to vs. to-mah-to sort of deal.

I'm all for the melting pot and multiculturalism, but I think it's reasonable for a society to draw the line on something as extreme as the burqa.

[Anonymous]

I am a Muslim (although admittedly a pretty secular one) and even I admit to being very torn on this issue.

On the one hand, I don't like to see a ban on anything from a civil liberties point of view.

I do think though that the burqa is pretty insidious, and it is a legitimate issue whether it should be banned or restricted. As others mention, there are security implications. There are lots of situations where we need to identify a person and hence see their face. I would not accept having my child's teacher wear a burqa for example. A driver's license photo should show a face... So a burqa is very different from a hijab (where just the hair is covered), because it erases someone's identity and in a lot of situations, even in a free society, that is not acceptable. It is interesting that a few years ago there was an islamist uprising in a mosque in Islamabad, Pakistan where there was a standoff with the police. The instigator of this, who was a man, attempted to escape wearing a burqa.

I am much more accepting of the burqa as a practical tool for women to get around in certain islamic countries. I spent quite a bit of time in a predominantly Muslim country in my childhood and knew plenty of women (who tended to be poorer) using the burqa not because they liked it, but because it was the only way they could move around without being intimidated or harrassed by men. I am much less sympathetic of burqas in the west.

[Anonymous]

did you all even know that Muslims invaded France/Portugal/Spain during the middle age so they've been there covering themselves or not for a long long time!!!
we all claim to be part of a free society and punch our chests proud of our liberty but this is all hipocrisy!!!
shame on you all that want to control what other people wear!!
and I bet you're all the ladies asking to be able to cover themselves during labor in that modesty thread!!!