Are private schools immoral

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should spend more of their time and money working with their own child to improve the schools and stop whining. A school is only as good as the kids and the families of the kids that attend. Its sad people think they need other people’s children to attend local failed schools to make them better. Look in the mirror, your schools are failing because of you and other people like you. You could eliminate all private and charter schools in the country and you would still have the same underperforming group of kids. Poor and failed schools are due to poor and failed parenting. Go to a private or charter school and the parents spend time with their children and push\help them succeed.

I have a feeling that if you swapped all the kids/parents from a failing school with all the kids/parents from a successful one, you would see the fortunes of the failing school largely reversed, and the successes of the "good" school end despite not changing funding or staffing at either school.

I largely agree, but schools do end up tailoring their services to their student bodies to a large extent. So kids who lucked out with parents end up being more lucky with their schools as well. Plus, parents invest their time and money into the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should spend more of their time and money working with their own child to improve the schools and stop whining. A school is only as good as the kids and the families of the kids that attend. Its sad people think they need other people’s children to attend local failed schools to make them better. Look in the mirror, your schools are failing because of you and other people like you. You could eliminate all private and charter schools in the country and you would still have the same underperforming group of kids. Poor and failed schools are due to poor and failed parenting. Go to a private or charter school and the parents spend time with their children and push\help them succeed.

I have a feeling that if you swapped all the kids/parents from a failing school with all the kids/parents from a successful one, you would see the fortunes of the failing school largely reversed, and the successes of the "good" school end despite not changing funding or staffing at either school.

You have a feeling this is true? This is 100% true and a no-brainer. "Good school," which is a phrase I dislike hearing on here, really means "school full of kids with all the advantages."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should spend more of their time and money working with their own child to improve the schools and stop whining. A school is only as good as the kids and the families of the kids that attend. Its sad people think they need other people’s children to attend local failed schools to make them better. Look in the mirror, your schools are failing because of you and other people like you. You could eliminate all private and charter schools in the country and you would still have the same underperforming group of kids. Poor and failed schools are due to poor and failed parenting. Go to a private or charter school and the parents spend time with their children and push\help them succeed.

I have a feeling that if you swapped all the kids/parents from a failing school with all the kids/parents from a successful one, you would see the fortunes of the failing school largely reversed, and the successes of the "good" school end despite not changing funding or staffing at either school.

You have a feeling this is true? This is 100% true and a no-brainer. "Good school," which is a phrase I dislike hearing on here, really means "school full of kids with all the advantages."

Sure I think its true. Take some of NYC's elite public schools and look at the student demographics.

Lets take Stuyvesant for example, which like Thomas Jefferson has admission primarily based on test scores. Half the kids qualify for free/reduced student lunches. 70% of the kids are asian. 75% are first generation immigrants for whom English is not a native language.[u]

Asians also have the highest poverty rate of any racial group in New York, with 29 percent living below the poverty level, compared with 26 percent of Hispanics, 23 percent of blacks and 14 percent of whites. Poor Asians lag far behind whites and are barely ahead of blacks and Latinos. Thus, the income spectrum among Asians in New York ranges from a surprisingly large number in poverty, through a hardworking lower middle class, and on to a more affluent upper middle class. They do however have a culture of cram schools for schools like Stuyvesant and a culture centered around education with high parental/peer pressure. The article below talks about this in more depth.

https://nypost.com/2014/07/19/why-nycs-push-to-change-school-admissions-will-punish-poor-asians/
https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21646217-top-marks-largely-go-asians-bill-de-blasio-wants-change-exams-asians-beware
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/22/opinion/the-truth-about-new-york-citys-elite-high-schools.html

So you have arguably an economically disadvantaged population, most of whom are first generation immigrants, yet are able to overcome these challenges due at least to cultural factors. I think its fair to say that you could take this same population, as they are academically "elite", and move them into a bad school and still have high test scores.

[Anonymous]

OP back for more fun

This is how you can tell a school is good

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/05/upshot/a-better-way-to-compare-public-schools.html

I live on capitol hill in DC which is kind of ground zero for the original article

Check out the Stuart Hobson Thread

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/684466.page

Wish I could get everyone commenting together and we could workout this whole issue in DC a lot better than the so called "experts"

At least on capitol hill if everyone just stayed inbound the whole school "situation" would fix itself

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP back for more fun

This is how you can tell a school is good

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/05/upshot/a-better-way-to-compare-public-schools.html

I live on capitol hill in DC which is kind of ground zero for the original article

Check out the Stuart Hobson Thread

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/684466.page

Wish I could get everyone commenting together and we could workout this whole issue in DC a lot better than the so called "experts"

At least on capitol hill if everyone just stayed inbound the whole school "situation" would fix itself

That NYT article was fascinating, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah click-bait

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/12/progressives-are-undermining-public-schools/548084/

I am a moderate republican and I actually kind of agree with her points

If you call yourself a liberal/progressive and don't go to your neighborhood school, or go private or charter instead. You are a hypocrite

It's why I'm not a liberal. At the end of the day you send your kid to the best school.... anyone who doesn't is kidding themselves

One could just as easily say, if you call yourself a Christian and you don't give all of your money to the poor, you are a hypocrite.

[Anonymous]

I am liberal. I live in an upper middle class neighborhood that goes is zoned with very poor neighborhoods for public school. We did private school but it had increased 30% in 5 years and we could no longer afford it. In public school for two years and now trying to figure out how to afford private again.
I don’t consider myself a hypocrite. I vote for increase in public school funding. I want the public school education to be better. I don’t want my children - or any children - to have a poor education. However I cannot make an impact in other kids education - only mine.
Why private? My children are not being challenged. They score 100% on tests, have no homework, but aren’t gifted. I see the tests - they are doing the same work they did 2 years ago in private school. They are bored. Class size is 28. Teachers are dealing with kids that barely read. No time to actually challenge my kids. Not the teachers fault - they need smaller class sizes.

[Anonymous]

Is it immoral to live in Bethesda?

[Anonymous]

We live in Georgia. I sent my son to our neighborhood school for a week. It is about 30% white, 30% black, 20% latino, 10% other. I loved the diversity. It was well-run and has nice facilities.

His kindy class had 26 kids in it, and I was told there would likely be more by the end of the first week. The state mandates no more than 15 minutes a day for recess, which he only had if he didn't have PE, and PE was spent learning the procedures for a fire drill the first week. When I went to ask his teacher what the day was like near the end of that first week, she said she thought he was doing his work, but that she hadn't had time to spend with him.

This is a small-ish school system. Unlike those in the article, there aren't dozens of underenrolled schools to choose from. There are about 20 elementary schools city-wide, and all except the school with the highest percentage of special needs kids is full by the time school starts.

So, yes, we went to private, where his class had 18 kids and he had recess and PE in kindy every day. My biggest hesitation was the lack of diversity in his new school, but what was most important to me was that he love his first year of formal school.

I figured that on some level, taking one kid out of that overcrowded classroom was a boone for that teacher and that class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it immoral to live in Bethesda?

Yes, one must practice noblesse oblige!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige

You must be a savior to the oppressed, sacrifice your children's well being, so that the fortunes of the oppressed arise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am liberal. I live in an upper middle class neighborhood that goes is zoned with very poor neighborhoods for public school. We did private school but it had increased 30% in 5 years and we could no longer afford it. In public school for two years and now trying to figure out how to afford private again.
I don’t consider myself a hypocrite. I vote for increase in public school funding. I want the public school education to be better. I don’t want my children - or any children - to have a poor education. However I cannot make an impact in other kids education - only mine.
Why private? My children are not being challenged. They score 100% on tests, have no homework, but aren’t gifted. I see the tests - they are doing the same work they did 2 years ago in private school. They are bored. Class size is 28. Teachers are dealing with kids that barely read. No time to actually challenge my kids. Not the teachers fault - they need smaller class sizes.

Look into your schools budget and see where the money goes.

I don't care if you are left-wing or right wing, but prepare to get angry. See how little money gets spent in the classroom, how little is spent on capital projects.

Look at the teacher to administrator ratio (FCPS is .7 admins per teacher).

[Anonymous]

Look at the teacher to administrator ratio (FCPS is .7 admins per teacher).

I knew it was too high--but had no idea it is that high. What a crime. This is the problem--and many of those administrators are looking for ways to justify their positions=--which almost always results in more paperwork for classroom teachers. Which results in less teaching.

[Anonymous]

I am wealthy, well-educated and white. I send my kids to a private school that is quite expensive for those kids not receiving significant financial aid. Their school is "majority minority" though SES diversity is much less. I donate significant amounts to their school to enhance financial aid, a bit more than half of a tuition cost per year plus gifts for capital projects. I have absolutely no moral problem with our sending our kids to this school and supporting this type of school. Why? Because it is an excellent school that actually supports the learning of all kids who walk through the door. Because the kids learn critical thinking, writing, and analysis a a high level at young ages. Because the math and science classes are challenging and insightful. Because the school encourages the kids at every stage to use their priviledge to do good and, equally important, prepares them with the tools to do so. My much more formally diverse public school did none of this. Rather there was lots of racial diversity, and near aboslute segregation. Condescention and undermining of any student efforts to address social (or, frankly, safety) issues. I could go on.

We are very fortunate to be professionally successful and our jobs pay very well. There is little I would rather spend my money on than our kids' school. Kids actually leave with tools to make it in a competitive world, and the graduates I know are productive, civic-minded and kind people. Increasing access to schools like my kids' is the way that I choose to support education efforts. Others choose different ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am wealthy, well-educated and white. I send my kids to a private school that is quite expensive for those kids not receiving significant financial aid. Their school is "majority minority" though SES diversity is much less. I donate significant amounts to their school to enhance financial aid, a bit more than half of a tuition cost per year plus gifts for capital projects. I have absolutely no moral problem with our sending our kids to this school and supporting this type of school. Why? Because it is an excellent school that actually supports the learning of all kids who walk through the door. Because the kids learn critical thinking, writing, and analysis a a high level at young ages. Because the math and science classes are challenging and insightful. Because the school encourages the kids at every stage to use their priviledge to do good and, equally important, prepares them with the tools to do so. My much more formally diverse public school did none of this. Rather there was lots of racial diversity, and near aboslute segregation. Condescention and undermining of any student efforts to address social (or, frankly, safety) issues. I could go on.

We are very fortunate to be professionally successful and our jobs pay very well. There is little I would rather spend my money on than our kids' school. Kids actually leave with tools to make it in a competitive world, and the graduates I know are productive, civic-minded and kind people. Increasing access to schools like my kids' is the way that I choose to support education efforts. Others choose different ways.

So you are maybe helping one child get a better education than they can afford? It's all fine, but don't expect kudos for helping the world by focusing on the very best for your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am wealthy, well-educated and white. I send my kids to a private school that is quite expensive for those kids not receiving significant financial aid. Their school is "majority minority" though SES diversity is much less. I donate significant amounts to their school to enhance financial aid, a bit more than half of a tuition cost per year plus gifts for capital projects. I have absolutely no moral problem with our sending our kids to this school and supporting this type of school. Why? Because it is an excellent school that actually supports the learning of all kids who walk through the door. Because the kids learn critical thinking, writing, and analysis a a high level at young ages. Because the math and science classes are challenging and insightful. Because the school encourages the kids at every stage to use their priviledge to do good and, equally important, prepares them with the tools to do so. My much more formally diverse public school did none of this. Rather there was lots of racial diversity, and near aboslute segregation. Condescention and undermining of any student efforts to address social (or, frankly, safety) issues. I could go on.

We are very fortunate to be professionally successful and our jobs pay very well. There is little I would rather spend my money on than our kids' school. Kids actually leave with tools to make it in a competitive world, and the graduates I know are productive, civic-minded and kind people. Increasing access to schools like my kids' is the way that I choose to support education efforts. Others choose different ways.

So you are maybe helping one child get a better education than they can afford? It's all fine, but don't expect kudos for helping the world by focusing on the very best for your kids.

I don't need "kudos for helping the world" from you. The question was whether sending kids to private school is immoral. It certainly is not against my morals. Supporting a school that uses money well is important to us, so that is what we do. Both DH and I are also actively involved in our kids' current and former schools, on several civic boards that do actual productive work, and are each in leadership positions in charitable organizations relating to our professional fields. You want to take a different approach, go ahead. This is my approach and we are perfectly happy with our approach to civic work/support. And I actually think that funding half a scholarship for a child to attend our kids' school makes a huge difference, certainly more than throwing cash or energy at the wholly dysfunctional DC school system.